Type 2 do you think it is self inflicted?

[mikej1973]

Insulin can lead to obesity. But it can work the other way around too!

 

[ButtterflyLady]

T2 is not self inflicted. Some people like to blame the victim. It amuses me when people who have never been overweight claim that obesity is caused by individual choices. They don't understand medicine.

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php

 

[mikej1973]

T2 is not self inflicted. Some people like to blame the victim. It amuses me when people who have never been overweight claim that obesity is caused by individual choices. They don't understand medicine.

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14046739.php

Mine was self inflicted. I put on Weight and got diabetes. I lost weight and my diabetes is completely in remission.

It isn't always self inflicted but some of us at least have to take responsibility for our own health issues

And your one stop website us well out of date. Estimates suggest up to 10% of the UK population may have diabetes now. Those studies are mostly over 10 years old and out of date.

 

[Neemo]

SouthportGP posted the below thread yesterday. It's a link to a 3 year study that he conducted in conjunction with other healthcare professionals pertaining to whether Glucose is a common denominator for causing Obesity, Diabetes and non-alcoholic fatty liver.

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/thr...-non-alcoholic-fatty-liver.84887/#post-956240

 

[mikej1973]

Most of us come to this site to learn from each other.

 

[msmi1970]

in my case. from a personal perspective. genetics + poor nutrition since childhood gave me Type 2. so i take most of the responsibility (whatever that means).. my great grandmother, grandmother and mum were all obese & diabetics but luckily for mum who is 83, has managed to avoid much of the debilitating effects of the disease.
interestingly, 6 out of 8 of my mum's siblings are diabetic. all well into their 70's now except one who died of diabetic complications. rest of them, although diabetic, are as thin as rakes... go figure...

 

[chri5]

@nosher8355, I agree that context is an important factor; Food manufacturing polices, prevalence of misinformation etc.

However, does this abrogate the personal responsibility of individuals/parents.

It could also be argued that the Government/Tobacco
Industy are responsible for cancer/heart diesease attributed to smoking....

If the government were to tell us that smoking is recommended then yes, I would say that they should bear a great deal of responsibility. Both of my parents were t2, dad was obese, mom certainly wasn`t and neither was I. As to the question of it being self inflicted, if you ingest something that you are told is perfectly harmless and it turns out not to be, then the consequences may be self inflicted but, I would suggest, hardly one`s own fault. Bear in mind that the medical world is still telling us that we MUST eat starchy carbs.

 

[mikej1973]

I think your parents and siblings being diabetic increases your risk of getting diabetes yourself. More distant family members don't seem to haven't an influence.

 

[mikej1973]

If the government were to tell us that smoking is recommended then yes, I would say that they should bear a great deal of responsibility. Both of my parents were t2, dad was obese, mom certainly wasn`t and neither was I. As to the question of it being self inflicted, if you ingest something that you are told is perfectly harmless and it turns out not to be, then the consequences may be self inflicted but, I would suggest, hardly one`s own fault. Bear in mind that the medical world is still telling us that we MUST eat starchy carbs.

But starchy carbs don't cause diabetes. Cutting them can help manage diabetes (it made no difference to me) but in normal non diabetic folk they're fine.

 

[chri5]

But starchy carbs don't cause diabetes. Cutting them can help manage diabetes (it made no difference to me) but in normal non diabetic folk they're fine.

They may be fine in non diabetic folk but certainly not for me. The point I was trying to make (probably not very well!) is that , especially when young, we eat what we are told to eat and that there is a difference between self inflicted and fault sometimes.

 

[reidpj]

Mine was self inflicted. I put on Weight and got diabetes. I lost weight and my diabetes is completely in remission.

It isn't always self inflicted but some of us at least have to take responsibility for our own health issues

And your one stop website us well out of date. Estimates suggest up to 10% of the UK population may have diabetes now. Those studies are mostly over 10 years old and out of date.

Hi

It's, probably, the 'self inflicted' bit, that gets people concerned. Self inflicted suggests a deliberate act, that somehow the person knew that their actions would lead to diabetes - surely you didn't deliberately put on weight in order to become diabetic?

May I ask what what you believe drove you to put on weight (for the record, I believe that insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia drove mine, coupled with myriad other factors - not least the availability of cheap nutrient dense food), and how you can be sure that your weight loss wasn't driven by another of your lifestyle changes which may have had an effect on your body's insulin sensitivity?

I believe that once I was able to 'cure' my Hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglycaemia, by consuming the majority of my calories as natural fats. My body was able to regulate my metabolism/hormones much more effectively, by forcing me to eat less and expend more calories through whatever means in it's arsenal - my basal temperature has risen, on average, by 0.4C, and I'm a lot more active (I walk at least 7 miles per day, not because I want to, but because I have to - my hormones drive me to do it, if that makes sense)

Cheers

 

[mikej1973]

Hi

It's, probably, the 'self inflicted' bit, that gets people concerned. Self inflicted suggests a deliberate act, that somehow the person knew that their actions would lead to diabetes - surely you didn't deliberately put on weight in order to become diabetic?

May I ask what what you believe drove you to put on weight (for the record, I believe that insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia drove mine, coupled with myriad other factors - not least the availability of cheap nutrient dense food), and how you can be sure that your weight loss wasn't driven by another of your lifestyle changes which may have had an effect on your body's insulin sensitivity

Cheers

I agree that obesity can result from insulin resistance. I put on Weight because I love food. I really love food! 4 or 5 takeaway a week. A big bacon sandwich on the way to work. Always ordered the biggest option on the menu. Who doesn't love a mixed grill!

That a fair amount of beer and limited exercise is why I put on Weight. Simple! I lost weight because I don't so that anymore! I fast two days a week and watch what I eat other days. I don't cut anything out of my diet but eat less, eat much less between meals.

The simplicity of burning more calories than you eat is debated here, but that has worked for me. Ive lost 4 stone since January, by Hba1c has gone from 60 to 28 and I can eat anything and my blood sugar stays normal.

For me it was a lifestyle problem and being a pilot I have been tested for diabetes every year so I know I was lucky and caught it early.

 

[reidpj]

I agree that obesity can result from insulin resistance. I put on Weight because I love food. I really love food! 4 or 5 takeaway a week. A big bacon sandwich on the way to work. Always ordered the biggest option on the menu. Who doesn't love a mixed grill!

That a fair amount of beer and limited exercise is why I put on Weight. Simple! I lost weight because I don't so that anymore! I fast two days a week and watch what I eat other days. I don't cut anything out of my diet but eat less, eat much less between meals.

The simplicity of burning more calories than you eat is debated here, but that has worked for me. Ive lost 4 stone since January, by Hba1c has gone from 60 to 28 and I can eat anything and my blood sugar stays normal.

For me it was a lifestyle problem and being a pilot I have been tested for diabetes every year so I know I was lucky and caught it early.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

OK, what do you believe drove (drives) your love for food. Could it be (have been) a hormone imbalance (dopamine; serotonin, etc)? I believe that you didn't get wider because you forced yourself to eat more food (if you did, you have super-human willpower), but you over-ate because you got wider (hormonal imbalance) - a child doesn't grow because it over-eats, it over-eats because it's growing (growth hormone).

I really hope that you manage to keep the weigh off, but I suspect (I have been known to be wrong -often) you will need to exercise iron-clad willpower to do so.

I'm sure that you well aware that 'normal' blood sugar doesn't signify much; it just means that your pancreas is able, for the moment, to secrete enough insulin to cover what you eat (you may still be hyperinsulinemic, if not hyperglycaemic, with all that that entails).

All the best

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

WRONG, it's caused by either a lack of insulin being produced by the pancreas or the body's resistance to the insulin being produced. if you're really unlucky it's both. Obesity is quite often what happens when you are insulin resistant because the excess insulin helps you store fat rather than burn it.
Isn't that in DIABETES 101?. So, still not quite there yet. My father had a 26 inch waste when he was diagnosed, so I think it's fair to say that he didn't have too much of any type of fat. No doubt he had some, even with a 26 inch waste, but too much? I don't think so. Sir Steve Redgrave, not exactly an overweight man, still type II though, has been since Atlanta Olympics.
It's not the first time I've seen people come out with this type of inaccurate assumption, probably because of what they've read in a comic. Still waiting for their empirical evidence.

When you get a diagnosis of type 2 diabetes your body is different from somebody who is non-diabetic, so it does not make it any easier to lose weight. Medications one use defintely play a role in weightgain, but for me excess calories are more important than the insulin resistance itself in causing obesity.

And I have read Diabetes 101, and I cannot say I really agree with much of it. Jenny Ruhl does not have type 2 diabetes as well, but she got a rare genetic form of the disease, her situation is very different from your usual type 2. I agree with Jennys view that we should not blame type 2 diabetics and shame them, but what she says is that type 2 diabetes is uncurable, you can only eat a lowcarb diet, genetics will make you get diabetes anyways, and your weight does not matter at all. For me that are quite strong statements that do not line up with the evidence at hand.

Your dads 26 inch waist seems reasonably low, but I need some other information as well. What is his height? How much muscle does he have? Does he have a sixpack? I am 188cm high and my waist is 76cm. And here is where empirical evidence weighs in. Genes do matter a lot, just look at this example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TOFI#..._in_men_with_the_same_waist_circumference.jpg This a picture that shows 8 people with the same waistsize, but they have vastly different levels of visceral dangerous fat. The one with the least has only 0.5 litres of visceral, the one with the most has 4.3 litres of fat! That is a difference of nearly 4 litres of dangerous fat,and they all got the same waistsize. You only need to look on the internet to find all kinds of examples of this. look at this, here we se a non-diabetic compared to a type 2 diabetic and their variation of visceral fat. The type 2 has much more white dangerous visceral fat.http://www.hivehealthmedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/visceral-fat.jpg

Here are some more examples:http://img.medscape.com/fullsize/migrated/editorial/cmecircle/2008/17327/cooppan/slide15.png
http://img.medscape.com/slide/migrated/editorial/cmecircle/2005/4005/images/sharma/slide010.gif
http://www.hitachi-medical.co.jp/english/products/ct/application/fatpointer/img/fatpointer450.jpg
http://image.slidesharecdn.com/synd.../95/syndrome-x-eslam-56-638.jpg?cb=1420906658
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/K-XPjNA_xA8/0.jpg
http://openi.nlm.nih.gov/imgs/512/229/2910286/2910286_kcj-40-308-g003.png

There you see lots of examples of how visceral determines who gets type 2 diabetes.

and interesting that you mentioned sir redgrave. He has bad diabetes genes, he could probably lose some pounds and get his bodyfat down. here is another example https://www.google.no/search?q=patrick+peterson&biw=1366&bih=667&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAWoVChMIpuS80IGcyAIVx40sCh38dQkg#tbm=isch&q=patrick+peterson+shirtless&imgrc=oq0kMSFo6RlP7M:

Patrick Person is an NFL player who got diagnosed with diabetes some time ago. HE says he is cured now, he lost some wieght and got it under control. He is unlucky with his genes nothing more.

 

[Lamont D]

Probably quite a few with T2 diagnosis are actually MODY and we don't know all the MODY genes yet. So if you aren't type one, then the question is if you are poly-genetic or mono-genetic or indeed LADA as LADA seems to share the poly-genetic diabetes traits of T2 and the autoimmune antibodies of T1. Complicated or not?

If you add in brittle, Hypoglycaemia, RH, then it makes it even more complicated, put hyperthyroidism and hypertension and you have only scratched the surface. Liver disease and pancreas disorders, cancer, etc.
That's why blood glucose disorders and metabolism disorders should be seen by endocrinologist and not GPs or dsns!

 

[mikej1973]

Hi, thanks for the reply.

OK, what do you believe drove (drives) your love for food. Could it be (have been) a hormone imbalance (dopamine; serotonin, etc)? I believe that you didn't get wider because you forced yourself to eat more food (if you did, you have super-human willpower), but you over-ate because you got wider (hormonal imbalance) - a child doesn't grow because it over-eats, it over-eats because it's growing (growth hormone).

I really hope that you manage to keep the weigh off, but I suspect (I have been known to be wrong -often) you will need to exercise iron-clad willpower to do so.

I'm sure that you well aware that 'normal' blood sugar doesn't signify much; it just means that your pancreas is able, for the moment, to secrete enough insulin to cover what you eat (you may still be hyperinsulinemic, if not hyperglycaemic, with all that that entails).

All the best

It will take iron clad will power to keep the weight off. Who knows how it will pan out! There could be anything wrong with me that you say and a whole load of other things too. All I can do is monitor my blood sugar and strategise from there.

As I say no excuseds from me about my weight. And I accept for lots of people diabetes is out of their hands. But there's a lot of excuse making and blame avoidance too. Its seems by taking responsibility for myself and admitting my part in my diabetes I'm dealing with it better than most. Maybe less excuses and more action could work for more of us.

 

[Lamont D]

Insulin can lead to obesity. But it can work the other way around too!

It did for me. Overproduction of Insulin gradually increased my body weight, even though I was on recommended diets.

 

[T2 Med free]

Mike 1973. We certainly learn a lot on this site what on earth did people do before Insulin was available for T1 as for me I am type 2 and after taking medication for eleven years I have turned my life around and live on diet only.. In many cases others can do the same unfortunately listening to others I know with T2 their Doctors don't know enough for their patients and just push patients to take more drugs encouraged by the Drug Companies. Cheers Michael

 

[SunnyExpat]

It will take iron clad will power to keep the weight off. Who knows how it will pan out! There could be anything wrong with me that you say and a whole load of other things too. All I can do is monitor my blood sugar and strategise from there.

As I say no excuseds from me about my weight. And I accept for lots of people diabetes is out of their hands. But there's a lot of excuse making and blame avoidance too. Its seems by taking responsibility for myself and admitting my part in my diabetes I'm dealing with it better than most. Maybe less excuses and more action could work for more of us.

I agree entirely with you, I took stock, and probably halved what I was eating before by getting rid of the junk.
That seemed to work for me

 

[graj0]

What is his height?

Six foot two. I've got pictures of him and he looks like a matchstick with the wood scraped off. Sadly, after 30+ years of being type II he has gained a pound or two. It's only anecdotal, but there you go. Us humans are so different and it's very easy to forget, I do it all the time. Different people will gain weight for different reasons, different people may or may not become insulin resistant, some may or may not be diagnosed as diabetic. There is no one rule fits all.