Type 2 do you think it is self inflicted?

[dannyw]

Hi

It's, probably, the 'self inflicted' bit, that gets people concerned. Self inflicted suggests a deliberate act, that somehow the person knew that their actions would lead to diabetes - surely you didn't deliberately put on weight in order to become diabetic?

May I ask what what you believe drove you to put on weight (for the record, I believe that insulin resistance/hyperinsulinemia drove mine, coupled with myriad other factors - not least the availability of cheap nutrient dense food), and how you can be sure that your weight loss wasn't driven by another of your lifestyle changes which may have had an effect on your body's insulin sensitivity?

I believe that once I was able to 'cure' my Hyperinsulinemia, and hyperglycaemia, by consuming the majority of my calories as natural fats. My body was able to regulate my metabolism/hormones much more effectively, by forcing me to eat less and expend more calories through whatever means in it's arsenal - my basal temperature has risen, on average, by 0.4C, and I'm a lot more active (I walk at least 7 miles per day, not because I want to, but because I have to - my hormones drive me to do it, if that makes sense)

Cheers

That's like saying someone who smokes deliberately set out to get lung cancer. Sure, there are slim, fit T2's but there are also those that over eat which is a huge risk factor. Scientists don't even understand fully what causes it so pretty sure we won't solve it here.

 

[mikej1973]

I agree entirely with you, I took stock, and probably halved what I was eating before by getting rid of the junk.
That seemed to work for me

And keeping it going is hard isn't it! Well it is for me at least. The blood testing and ability to see my toes keep me going though!

 

[Neemo]

Six foot two. I've got pictures of him and he looks like a matchstick with the wood scraped off. Sadly, after 30+ years of being type II he has gained a pound or two. It's only anecdotal, but there you go. Us humans are so different and it's very easy to forget, I do it all the time. Different people will gain weight for different reasons, different people may or may not become insulin resistant, some may or may not be diagnosed as diabetic. There is no one rule fits all.

IMO I would say this 'empirical' example you have provided is an exception, not the rule.

Indeed, there are a proportion of individuals who develop diabetes for as yet, not fully understood reasons (I.e. not the typical pathology: excess glucose + genetic disposition > Fatty Liver > Insulin Resistance > Increased adiposity > Leptin resistance = Type 2 diabetes) this homeostatic imbalance continues to be compounded by increased hunger > increased fat > Increased Insulin resistance, thus amplifying the 'severity' of the type 2.

It's extremely well evidenced, and indeed incontrovertible, that reducing/stopping carbs can lead to either a significant reduction, or in some cases a complete reversal of Type 2 diabetes.

One example I would like to share;

Only 90% of lung cancer is attributed to smoking...So would it be correct to assume that lung cancer is not caused by smoking.

That would be a an incorrect inference.

Not trying to offend anybody.

This forum is a crucible of debate (of sorts), where misinformation and weak opinions should be exposed, so that we can arrive at something approaching the truth (is that not the primary purpose of a debate)

BTW; I genuinely thought that your avatar was Henry 8th! But realised it was real when I looked.

 

[TorqPenderloin]

Not trying to offend anybody.

This forum is a crucible of debate (of sorts), where misinformation and weak opinions should be exposed, so that we can arrive at something approaching the truth (is that not the primary purpose of a debate)

Sometimes helping people requires saying things they may not want to hear.

Kudos to those who have owned up to their poor lifestyle choices and decided to make changes. I too was there at one point in my life and know what it's like to gain 40+ lbs (and then lose it all).

 

[SunnyExpat]

...................It's extremely well evidenced, and indeed incontrovertible, that reducing/stopping carbs can lead to either a significant reduction, or in some cases a complete reversal of Type 2 diabetes.......................

I understood the only claims for 'reversal' of type two had been made by Prof Taylor with the Newcastle Diet, which was low calorie, but overall quite carby shakes, and the reversal was attributed to weight loss.
Are there other trials that have happened anywhere?

I reckon if I put weight back on, my diabetes will get a loss worse again.
And it is a continual battle, watching how much I eat.

 

[SunnyExpat]

Just to show I can't win, I just realised a lot of my foods contain cyanide.

'Cyanide is produced naturally in the environment by various bacteria, algae, fungi and numerous species of plants including beans (chickpeas and lima), fruits (seeds and pits of apple, cherry, pear, apricot, peach and plum), almond and cashew nuts, vegetables of the cabbage family, grains (alfalfa and sorghum), roots (cassava, potato, radish and turnip), white clover and young bamboo shoots '

chickpeas
lima beans
almond flour
cashews
cabbage family
cassava
turnip
bamboo shoots.

All things I eat regularly.
Of course, properly processed and cooked, they're harmless, (probably), but sometimes I wonder if I did something wrong in a previous life!

 

[Roytaylorjasonfunglover]

I understood the only claims for 'reversal' of type two had been made by Prof Taylor with the Newcastle Diet, which was low calorie, but overall quite carby shakes, and the reversal was attributed to weight loss.
Are there other trials that have happened anywhere?

I reckon if I put weight back on, my diabetes will get a loss worse again.
And it is a continual battle, watching how much I eat.

There are not to many trials like the one Professor Roy Taylor did, a good trial where they made people loose substantial amounts of weight during a short period of time. The closest thing are probably bariatric surgery studies, where many people lose lot of weight in a relatively short period of time, and there typically get a 80% diabetes remission rate.

And you are right,if you managed to get back the weight you lost you will develop diabetes again. Here is an enxample of somebody who found Roy Taylors work online, and then lost lot of weight:

He features in one of Roy Taylors web presantantions and he weighed something like 118 kg at the point he found Roy Taylors work, and when he was done with the cure he weighed 74 kg. So yeah, if he put back on 44 kgs, he would get diabetes. But know he knows the consequences of doing so, so it is not likely he will do that.

Here is another person who got inspired by Roy Taylors work and cured his diabetes.
http://www.reversingtype2diabetes.com/

He was really skinny when diagnosed but lost something like 4 kgs and that cured him. He does not seem to be a lowcarb fan, he belives saturated fat is bad for instance, but he eats out and drinks alcohol for instance. His diet is also very high in carbs, but his bloodsugars are good. He updates that page regulary and you can even email if you want.

Here is a scottish politician that followed Roy Taylors diet. He also cured his diabetes.
http://www.eastlothiancourier.com/news/13562879.MSP_celebrates_curing_his_diabetes_through_new_diet/
http://www.thenational.scot/news/strict-800-calorie-a-day-diet-may-be-key-to-reversing-diabetes.4106

In the second article there is also mention of the Counterweight programme, its a study made by Mike Lean a colleuge of Roy Taylor. The program is basically information about the NEwcastle diet at your local gp. In the article he mentions that over 300 people have cured their diabetes already by using the program.

More about the Counterweight program is here
http://www.otago.ac.nz/diabetes/news/otago088304.html , and there is also an presantantion by Mike Lean. The study will end in 2018 and the results will be published then.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I agree entirely with you, I took stock, and probably halved what I was eating before by getting rid of the junk.
That seemed to work for me

Same, I probably reduced my food intake by more than half. Achieved dramatic weight loss through hard work. Still, I make a point of not judging people based on their size, because I have no idea what is going on for them medically, and judging people just isn't cool.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

If you add in brittle, Hypoglycaemia, RH, then it makes it even more complicated, put hyperthyroidism and hypertension and you have only scratched the surface. Liver disease and pancreas disorders, cancer, etc.
That's why blood glucose disorders and metabolism disorders should be seen by endocrinologist and not GPs or dsns!

I agree with you, there are many types of blood glucose disorders and often it takes a good endo to sort it out. But I think when a doctor is fairly sure that the person has common or garden T2 with nothing else likely to be complicating it, then an endo isn't necessary. I don't know how a country could have enough endos to treat everyone. Perhaps better diagnostic and referral pathways is a solution, so that where it looks like an endo is needed, people can get to see them as early as possible. Better guidelines and continuing medical education programs would be key parts of this.

 

[Lamont D]

I agree with you, there are many types of blood glucose disorders and often it takes a good endo to sort it out. But I think when a doctor is fairly sure that the person has common or garden T2 with nothing else likely to be complicating it, then an endo isn't necessary. I don't know how a country could have enough endos to treat everyone. Perhaps better diagnostic and referral pathways is a solution, so that where it looks like an endo is needed, people can get to see them as early as possible. Better guidelines and continuing medical education programs would be key parts of this.

I believe I do agree with your assessment.

But, if you had a room full of T2s, there would be one that was common or garden T2!
The rest would probably have all sorts of complications!

 

[ButtterflyLady]

I believe I do agree with your assessment.

But, if you had a room full of T2s, there would be one that was common or garden T2!
The rest would probably have all sorts of complications!

It's a tricky one for sure. I think I have uncomplicated T2... I have hypertension but it is controlled with meds. I think there is definitely room for GPs to improve their knowledge about diagnosing and managing these disorders.

 

[Lamont D]

It's a tricky one for sure. I think I have uncomplicated T2... I have hypertension but it is controlled with meds. I think there is definitely room for GPs to improve their knowledge about diagnosing and managing these disorders.

A lot of room in my experience!
The diversity in actual diagnosis is too much for a surgery and a GPs time, hence, supposedly trained dsns! (Ha!)
My dsn is good, because she just doesn't understand why I'm so weird and I have come to look forward to our six monthly diabetic (???) check up.
She doesn't give advice and has got use to my good results of my BP and heartbeat, pulse. She doesn't bother with my foot checks now.
I think I've won her over because I suspect we will just pretend to go through the motions at my next one!

 

[Lancelot J]

I was fine until I got a nasty "Viral Haemoragic Fever". After that I was diagnosed (and even that was an accidental diagnosis).