800 calories a day

[Kristin251]

It sounds like you're doing really well and are well on top of your medication. It's not easy though is it. Out of interest, are you hoping to reduce your insulin over time or have you already begun doing so with your approach?

I can't reduce it much further. I only take 1/2 unit with meals. Mornings require an extra small dose to stop the morning rise when I start getting active. My c peptide and GAD tests were not pleasant so I can't drop insulin much further. I will always need it. I also take one, sometimes 2 units of lantus. So I don't think I can drop that much lower either.

You're right, D is not easy in any stage and I've been through them all. Funny thing is that i found after starting on insulin that the best way for me to keep steady control was to eat exactly the way I ate before insulin. I COULD eat carbs if I wanted to but I lose energy, feel like rubbish etc not to mention the bs swings. When I start lunch at 85, one and two hours later I'm 85. Doesn't get much better than that!! Sometimes I go into dinner a hair low so I just eat a hair more to let myself come up a bit. Mornings are the issue and there is no perfect bf for me. In fact fasting through it makes it much worse. Odd

 

[douglas99]

I only eat complex carbs such as leafy greens and avoid all refined carbs plus sugar. I keep under 50g if possible most days. I also mix in with fasting days once a week which is actually far easier than I thought it would be. Once you're eating low carb and high healthy fat it's pretty easy to switch to a fasting day and you really don't get that hungry. Fasting blood sugar this morning was 5.2.

What are you like if you eat the standard 300 of carbs a day?
Did you try that after the 800 calorie diet?

 

[streem26]

I reversed my Type 2 diabetes in 2001, and have recently been removed from the diabetic register. At no point did I starve myself. There were three pillars to my long-term success. 1 - Set myself up mentally with a long-term perspective, chose the habits I wanted to support a long-term easily-maintainable lifestyle and deliberately cultivated them. 2 - Gradual migration from fast junk food to healthier options, also ramping down the carb content rather than just reducing amounts. 3 - Put more activity into my life to increase the insulin sensitivity of my muscles. Yes - genetics and many other factors play a role. But so much sugar and refined carbs are being stuffed into our foods that it fuels the diabetes epidemic. It is only when we really start to eat healthily that we stand a chance of reversing the global Type 2 diabetes statistics.

 

[douglas99]

I reversed my Type 2 diabetes in 2001, and have recently been removed from the diabetic register. At no point did I starve myself. There were three pillars to my long-term success. 1 - Set myself up mentally with a long-term perspective, chose the habits I wanted to support a long-term easily-maintainable lifestyle and deliberately cultivated them. 2 - Gradual migration from fast junk food to healthier options, also ramping down the carb content rather than just reducing amounts. 3 - Put more activity into my life to increase the insulin sensitivity of my muscles. Yes - genetics and many other factors play a role. But so much sugar and refined carbs are being stuffed into our foods that it fuels the diabetes epidemic. It is only when we really start to eat healthily that we stand a chance of reversing the global Type 2 diabetes statistics.

Do you eat any particular diet now, or can you eat anything?

 

[LCHF for life]

What are you like if you eat the standard 300 of carbs a day?
Did you try that after the 800 calorie diet?

I don't believe that eating 300g of carbs is standard. It may be the current/old advice but it's poor advice, and that's for most people, not just diabetics.

 

[douglas99]

I don't believe that eating 300g of carbs is standard. It may be the current/old advice but it's poor advice, and that's for most people, not just diabetics.

So you haven't tested with a high carb meal then?

 

[LCHF for life]

So you haven't tested with a high carb meal then?

Don't get me wrong, I don't live like a saint and will enjoy the odd day here and there with high carb content but my insulin sensitivity has improved and deals with higher levels of carbs/sugar returning my blood sugar to normal levels effectively.

What we must be careful with here is thinking that by returning to 300g and more of carbs we will be fine in the long run. We won't as we are amongst the 50% and more of the population who will start to accumulate visceral fat around our organs if we return to our old ways. So I'm mindful of that and most days will stay under 50g of carbs to avoid that.

 

[douglas99]

Don't get me wrong, I don't live like a saint and will enjoy the odd day here and there with high carb content but my insulin sensitivity has improved and deals with higher levels of carbs/sugar returning my blood sugar to normal levels effectively.

What we must be careful with here is thinking that by returning to 300g and more of carbs we will be fine in the long run. We won't as we are amongst the 50% and more of the population who will start to accumulate visceral fat around our organs if we return to our old ways. So I'm mindful of that and most days will stay under 50g of carbs to avoid that.

I find it's calories, not carbs, that make me fat, so no issue there, so long as I use the scales and a mirror.
For example I had a nice pub meal at the weekend with the family, battered fish, chips, mushy peas, a very nice apple and blackcurrant crumble with custard, a pint of beer.

I'm guessing here, but I would say around
1500 calories in the main meal, maybe 200g of carbs
600 calories in the pudding, maybe 150g of carbs.
200 calories for the pint of beer, 20 g of carbs maybe

2300 calories, 370g of carbs?

If I eat that every day, yes, I'll get fat again.
Simple way to beat that is not to eat it every day though.

 

[LCHF for life]

I find it's calories, not carbs, that make me fat, so no issue there, so long as I use the scales and a mirror.

A calorie isn't a calorie which means that for example the sugar corp will have you believe that 100 cals of almonds and 100 cals of coke are exactly the same. They truly aren't and your body will process them in a completely different way. I struggle to eat more than around 1200 calories a day and I don't restrict myself at all. I can eat as much as I want generally as long as I stick to the core principles of no refined carbs or sugar.

Any refined carbs or sugar will raise your insulin levels with insulin being your fat storage hormone. It takes the excess glucose and stores it as fat for later use. Therefore for most people, if you keep insulin under control and low, you'll naturally lose weight. If you lose weight then you start shedding visceral fat from around your pancreas and liver and your insulin will become effective in dealing with higher blood sugar levels. The higher the levels of insulin, over time, the more resistant the bodies cells become as they try to protect themselves which leads to the body needing more and more insulin to do the same job.

If you eat the recommended level of carbs (300g) your body will be in fat storage and you'll find it harder to lose weight. Force the body to burn fat by restricting it's access to glucose.

You can still lose weight with calorie counting but it's so much harder as your brain will keep demanding carbs and sending out hunger signals. That's why 98% of people who lose weight put it all back on within 5 years. Higher levels of healthy fat help keep us fuller for longer making the whole job easier. The fat has little or no effect on our blood sugar levels either so it's the perfect fuel.

 

[douglas99]

A calorie isn't a calorie which means that for example the sugar corp will have you believe that 100 cals of almonds and 100 cals of coke are exactly the same. They truly aren't and your body will process them in a completely different way. I struggle to eat more than around 1200 calories a day and I don't restrict myself at all. I can eat as much as I want generally as long as I stick to the core principles of no refined carbs or sugar.

Any refined carbs or sugar will raise your insulin levels with insulin being your fat storage hormone. It takes the excess glucose and stores it as fat for later use. Therefore for most people, if you keep insulin under control and low, you'll naturally lose weight. If you lose weight then you start shedding visceral fat from around your pancreas and liver and your insulin will become effective in dealing with higher blood sugar levels. The higher the levels of insulin, over time, the more resistant the bodies cells become as they try to protect themselves which leads to the body needing more and more insulin to do the same job.

If you eat the recommended level of carbs (300g) your body will be in fat storage and you'll find it harder to lose weight. Force the body to burn fat by restricting it's access to glucose.

You can still lose weight with calorie counting but it's so much harder as your brain will keep demanding carbs and sending out hunger signals. That's why 98% of people who lose weight put it all back on within 5 years. Higher levels of healthy fat help keep us fuller for longer making the whole job easier. The fat has little or no effect on our blood sugar levels either so it's the perfect fuel.

Sorry, I find the one size fits all principle doesn't fit me, a calorie is a calorie, so I'll carry on in a way that works for my body.
As you say, you reversed you diabetes, but you're low carb for life. I reversed mine, but I prefer to eat carbs now.
(I have edited the post you commented on since, to provide an example, apologies as it appears to have crossed)

 

[LCHF for life]

Sorry, I find the one size fits all principle doesn't fit me, a calorie is a calorie, so I'll carry on in a way that works for my body.
As you say, you reversed you diabetes, but you're low carb for life. I reversed mine, but I prefer to eat carbs now.
(I have edited the post you commented on since, to provide an example, apologies as it appears to have crossed)

Apologies, I didn't mean to preach but you asked the questions so I answered. For me I didn't want to be diabetic for life and would do anything to reverse it. It's all a lifestyle choice and you've made yours. The great thing is you've made that choice based on the facts. The sad thing for me is people are still following the old guidelines because they feel it will make them better or keep their condition under control. Once you are on medication it is fairly certain your condition will worsen over time until you need more and more insulin and we know how that ends up for a lot of people. The current treatment doesn't work but education is key and slowly but surely the message is getting out there. Hopefully more and more are becoming aware of how their bodies work and can make an informed choice just like you have. Good to chat to you.

 

[douglas99]

Apologies, I didn't mean to preach but you asked the questions so I answered. For me I didn't want to be diabetic for life and would do anything to reverse it. It's all a lifestyle choice and you've made yours. The great thing is you've made that choice based on the facts. The sad thing for me is people are still following the old guidelines because they feel it will make them better or keep their condition under control. Once you are on medication it is fairly certain your condition will worsen over time until you need more and more insulin and we know how that ends up for a lot of people. The current treatment doesn't work but education is key and slowly but surely the message is getting out there. Hopefully more and more are becoming aware of how their bodies work and can make an informed choice just like you have. Good to chat to you.

I can't really comment on the old guidelines, as I did it with the help of my HCP's, NHS dieticians, and the full support of my doctor, who were more than happy to support the work I did. The problem is, not many patients want to take the hard steps, so the medical profession has to tailor the advice to suit.
Even getting me onto the eatwell plate initially was a drastic change, and a drastic improvement to my existing diet. Many patients don't want to take any further steps.

 

[LCHF for life]

I can't really comment on the old guidelines, as I did it with the help of my HCP's, NHS dieticians, and the full support of my doctor, who were more than happy to support the work I did. The problem is, not many patients want to take the hard steps, so the medical profession has to tailor the advice to suit.
Even getting me onto the eatwell plate initially was a drastic change, and a drastic improvement to my existing diet. Many patients don't want to take any further steps.

It's such a shame for those that don't isn't it. I would spend all day discussing how to help a T2 diabetic reverse their condition but I all I ask is that they show determination to do it. I'm doing some great work with the NHS at the moment putting patients through the low carb high fat program and there are some great people doing their best to make a difference. Sadly until they change their dietary guidance from the top though people will continue to suffer.

 

[bulkbiker]

It's such a shame for those that don't isn't it. I would spend all day discussing how to help a T2 diabetic reverse their condition but I all I ask is that they show determination to do it. I'm doing some great work with the NHS at the moment putting patients through the low carb high fat program and there are some great people doing their best to make a difference. Sadly until they change their dietary guidance from the top though people will continue to suffer.

And therein lies the problem although @douglas99 refuses to believe it. Until the NHS/GP/DN's are prepared to open their and their patients minds to alternatives to the Eatwell Plate then we are stuck. So many people still believe everything their HCP tells them.. "go away and take the tablets" "Type 2 is a progressive disease you will end up on insulin" and it is for many just wrong advice.

 

[douglas99]

It's such a shame for those that don't isn't it. I would spend all day discussing how to help a T2 diabetic reverse their condition but I all I ask is that they show determination to do it. I'm doing some great work with the NHS at the moment putting patients through the low carb high fat program and there are some great people doing their best to make a difference. Sadly until they change their dietary guidance from the top though people will continue to suffer.

I'd prefer the Newcastle diet to be the first choice, which stands a reasonable chance of actually truly reversing type 2, and resets the approach to food, so enabling the patient to actually address what they eat, and also the quantity.
Two of the dangers of switching to LCHF initially, for me, is that is may not truly reverse type 2, as many still peak badly if they eat carbs, and it still seems to be eat until you're full, which is inherently fraught with danger if the type of food eaten slips, as the approach to eating is still the same as mine would have been previously.
And eating was my problem. As was 'never feeling hungry'

 

[bulkbiker]

I'd prefer the Newcastle diet to be the first choice, which stands a reasonable chance of actually truly reversing type 2, and resets the approach to food, so enabling the patient to actually address what they eat, and also the quantity.
Two of the dangers of switching to LCHF initially, for me, is that is may not truly reverse type 2, as many still peak badly if they eat carbs, and it still seems to be eat until you're full, which is inherently fraught with danger if the type of food eaten slips, as the approach to eating is still the same as mine would have been previously.
And eating was my problem. As was 'never feeling hungry'

I'd prefer them to advocate fasting too (which seems to be what the ND really is) as Dr Valter Longo's studies may suggest.
So you and I agree that the current state of NHS advice doesn't give a decent set of options to Type 2's ? Really.. we agree on something! Hallelujah..

 

[douglas99]

I'd prefer then to advocate fasting too (which seems to be what the ND really is) as Dr Valter Longo's studies may suggest.
So you and I agree that the current state of NHS advice doesn't give a decent set of options to Type 2's ? Really.. we agree on something! Hallelujah..

Nope, I don't agree at all.
I think all the options are there, in the correct order.
If the patient decides they don't want to do them, and stops at the first part of the advice, or prefers their own methods, that's the patients choice.
As for fasting, an eight week fast would be quite laughable.

 

[Jamesuk9]

Nope, I don't agree at all.

Phew, there's a relief. For a moment I thought you'd banged your head........

 

[LCHF for life]

I'd prefer then to advocate fasting too (which seems to be what the ND really is) as Dr Valter Longo's studies may suggest.
So you and I agree that the current state of NHS advice doesn't give a decent set of options to Type 2's ? Really.. we agree on something! Hallelujah..

Totally agree. Fasting can be an excellent approach to reversing T2D. Intermittent fasting can work very well. The 8 Week Blood Sugar Diet restricted you to 800 calories on low carb high fat and I have to say I never really felt hungry. I took to it really well. Best thing I ever did and just wish I'd been told about it when diagnosed in 2010. That's where we've got to get to now, giving a range of options to patients rather than the eatwell plate. If they choose to ignore them then so be it. I would bitten their arm off for the info when I was diagnosed though and I'm sure there are many out there who feel the same but aren't being told what they can do.

 

[LCHF for life]

And therein lies the problem although @douglas99 refuses to believe it. Until the NHS/GP/DN's are prepared to open their and their patients minds to alternatives to the Eatwell Plate then we are stuck. So many people still believe everything their HCP tells them.. "go away and take the tablets" "Type 2 is a progressive disease you will end up on insulin" and it is for many just wrong advice.

Well I can't really comment on Douglas as I'm sure he is aware of the facts but the rest is spot on. Education is key here.