A Flexitarian diet to save 10bn people

[Guzzler]

There was something in the news about this today, mentioning ultra processed foods being harmful, and using breakfast cereals, crisps, burgers, and believe it or not DAIRY as examples. DAIRY? Unless they were meaning pretend dairy, margarine and so forth, but didn't specify.

Yes, Nageh Munchetty couldn't get her head around it this morning. The look on her face when a Prof. answered her question '... and fish fingers, are they processed?'

 

[Bluetit1802]

And why farmed fish only? No more fishing on the seas .....

 

[enb54]

Humanity is writing its own epitaph, hopefully our successors do better...

 

[Member496333]

Humanity is writing its own epitaph, hopefully our successors do better...

It’s mental isn’t it? We’ve set foot on the moon and are getting ready to travel to other worlds, but we can’t figure out what to eat without killing ourselves.

 

[enb54]

We are so smart, but at the same time, so incredibly stupid...

 

[Member496333]

The problem is that this kind of mumbo jumbo “science” really does carry weight with the masses. It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe, and the majority believe anything they read in the press so long as it has “scientist” somewhere in the body of text.

We can laugh this stuff off but I genuinely will not be surprised if this sort of rubbish results in taxation and legislation. It’s true that the real-food movement is taking great strides forward, but sometimes I fear that it’s never going to be enough to overcome the corporate might of those with a vested interest in the continued obfuscation of the truth.

I can only hope that the wisdom of the crowds really does eventually crush the anointed, otherwise we are all bleeped.

 

[Oldvatr]

How absurd is that daily protein amount, this is what it really is about to me. Anti meat, they know they won't get away with banning all meats etc outright, but will have a better chance of getting this through if they include a tiny amount of it.

Who's ready for daily rations?

Edit: typo

I note from the Eat Lancet paper that most of the protein they envisage being used will be labgrown from embryo stem cells or from fish. In their first draft all animal products except fish was to be excluded (i,e, read culled to extinction) but seeing the problems we are experiencing in feeding fish to our current populations, I suspect this is a wet dream gone wrong. So it seems they will have plans to breed some animals for stem cell harvesting for their veggie burgers and fake meat sales, but the majority will be anihilated in the name of saving the animals - seems a bit base over apex to me. The original draft of the plan was indeed vegan only, and I suspect that this will be stage 2 of the conquest once the herds have been slaughtered and we have wall to wall monoculture farming ( or the wasteland deserts that follow monoculture farming, especially when the carbon fuels are closed down so fertiliser becomes difficult to make)

Of course, the lack of biovalent vitamins and essential nutrients in this depleted diet of theirs will mean that most of the population will be too weak to do anything about it, and the robot farms will churn out pills galore for all of us except the disgustingly rich elite. The ultimate capitalist dream.

 

[Guzzler]

I note from the Eat Lancet paper that most of the protein they envisage being used will be labgrown from embryo stem cells or from fish. In their first draft all animal products except fish was to be excluded (i,e, read culled to extinction) but seeing the problems we are experiencing in feeding fish to our current populations, I suspect this is a wet dream gone wrong. So it seems they will have plans to breed some animals for stem cell harvesting for their veggie burgers and fake meat sales, but the majority will be anihilated in the name of saving the animals - seems a bit base over apex to me. The original draft of the plan was indeed vegan only, and I suspect that this will be stage 2 of the conquest once the herds have been slaughtered and we have wall to wall monoculture farming ( or the wasteland deserts that follow monoculture farming, especially when the carbon fuels are closed down so fertiliser becomes difficult to make)

Of course, the lack of biovalent vitamins and essential nutrients in this depleted diet of theirs will mean that most of the population will be too weak to do anything about it, and the robot farms will churn out pills galore for all of us except the disgustingly rich elite. The ultimate capitalist dream.

"Base over Apex" I love it.

 

[Oldvatr]

Wise. Willet’s crew are a vegan propaganda mouthpiece.

Also beware of Oxford Martin school masquerading as Oxford University. Other suspect sources are Belfast Queens, and Aberdeen Universities who are funded by these people. Obviously the Lancet has been taken over, as have other news outlets and even Nature and Science Direct journals are now published by Elsevier who own Lancet.

 

[WuTwo]

Of course, the lack of biovalent vitamins and essential nutrients in this depleted diet of theirs will mean that most of the population will be too weak to do anything about it, and the robot farms will churn out pills galore for all of us except the disgustingly rich elite. The ultimate capitalist dream.

I can't say I'm weak exactly. I have terrific stamina, great energy levels and can't remember the last time I was ill. My DSN said I eat the perfect diet for health; she wasn't joking either. And she isn't vegan - she and her family are meat eaters.

 

[carol43]

There is a distinct advantage to getting older (I'm 72) that I will never have to be fed this c**p. I fear for my descendants.

 

[WuTwo]

I do think I'd need more veg than they have on their plate, and they've forgotten most of the peas & beans. Also, I do eat a good few nuts and seeds ....

 

[Oldvatr]

The problem is that this kind of mumbo jumbo “science” really does carry weight with the masses. It doesn’t matter what is true, it only matters what people believe, and the majority believe anything they read in the press so long as it has “scientist” somewhere in the body of text.

We can laugh this stuff off but I genuinely will not be surprised if this sort of rubbish results in taxation and legislation. It’s true that the real-food movement is taking great strides forward, but sometimes I fear that it’s never going to be enough to overcome the corporate might of those with a vested interest in the continued obfuscation of the truth.

I can only hope that the wisdom of the crowds really does eventually crush the anointed, otherwise we are all bleeped.

My daughter is fully hooked on this stuff and is trying to get me to go vegan. We have big arguments, but she is not open to reason, and only believes what the Grauniad tells her. It is aimed at the so called millenials who do not seem to question what they are assimilating on their social media, and are unaware that their newsfeeds are tailored to their own biasses so give a blinkered view, They accept pseudo science as fact, and cannot or will not question it or its source. I am extremely worried since we are now seeing the Willett et al published fiction turning up in the established archives as being independently peer reviewed science when it most definitely is not, The only people that did the review on the Eat Lancet diet were the team in Stockhom and Oxford, i.e. incest, The EAT team are all (with one exception) vegans.

 

[Oldvatr]

I do think I'd need more veg than they have on their plate, and they've forgotten most of the peas & beans. Also, I do eat a good few nuts and seeds ....

Feed the world on nuts? Come on. We will never be able to grow enough of them to do that. Peas and beans take up too much water resources to be viable, and peas and rice actually produce more greenhouse gases than animals, Not all plants are better for the planet so it will come down to a limited variety, mainly grains and starches, Forget Avacados, strawberries, blueberries, kale, cabbage, in fact greens of any kind since they need too much resource, Try algae, slime, and insects since these will be farmable on a large scale and need little energy or water resource. and they can feed off waste products as well, I see farmers with shotguns protecting their wormeries and compost heaps from protein hunters

 

[lucylocket61]

I can't say I'm weak exactly. I have terrific stamina, great energy levels and can't remember the last time I was ill. My DSN said I eat the perfect diet for health; she wasn't joking either. And she isn't vegan - she and her family are meat eaters.

the issue isnt with veganism as practiced by you. The issue is with the components and amount in the 'ideal' diet being promoted in the article, and the lack of nutrients due to lack of adequate and nutritious soil to grow the amounts being touted.

 

[WuTwo]

I have no problem with eating a diet that will save the lives of other humans; I would not want plenty on my plate at the expense of their lives.

If it isn't what I'm used to, or like then I will adapt and learn how to use spices and herbs to make it tasty.

 

[lucylocket61]

I have no problem with eating a diet that will save the lives of other humans; I would not want plenty on my plate at the expense of their lives.

If it isn't what I'm used to, or like then I will adapt and learn how to use spices and herbs to make it tasty.

again, that is not the point being made.

this diet is being touted as suitable and sustainable and nourishing for all. It isnt. The data is flawed, the reasoning suspect and the nutritional aspect, even without health concerns, misrepresented.

This is not about eating less for the good of all. This is about claiming that eating this diet will keep the population healthy too.

I hope spices and heabs will still be available too, as we all get weak and ill through malnutrition.

 

[1spuds]

2 assumptions are being made
1-That the population will continue to grow
2- That food production has reached its zenith

Just like peak oil didnt happen,and new methods have increased production,so will new methods continue to increase food production.Farming has continually increased production,IMO that will continue.

The scary part to me is the propaganda to promote an agenda.Weve all seen those failures in the food pyramid and fat demonization.More bad 'science' is still,and I guess always will,be spouted by those who feel a need to control others.

 

[Member496333]

Feed the world on nuts? Come on. We will never be able to grow enough of them to do that. Peas and beans take up too much water resources to be viable, and peas and rice actually produce more greenhouse gases than animals, Not all plants are better for the planet so it will come down to a limited variety, mainly grains and starches, Forget Avacados, strawberries, blueberries, kale, cabbage, in fact greens of any kind since they need too much resource, Try algae, slime, and insects since these will be farmable on a large scale and need little energy or water resource. and they can feed off waste products as well, I see farmers with shotguns protecting their wormeries and compost heaps from protein hunters

At the risk of drifting off topic, I have read some literature that asserts methane from livestock being greenhouse neutral, since it degrades in the atmosphere within ~10 years.

 

[Goonergal]

This talk by Zoe Harcombe - very similar to the one she gave at the PHC conference this month - touches on a number of the issues being discussed here, including the flawed thinking that moving from meat to plant based foods will save the planet. Worth a watch.