A Month Into Low Carbing

[copey399]

I think a big factor in your weight is 2 of the pills you need to take for other reasons - water pills and Diazepam. I too have to take pills for other reasons that I have no intention of changing. Always remember that you have these meds, which means there is a good reason for some of your weight, and it's something you can't be expected to be able to do anything about.

Now, I think it's concerning that your fasting BGs are 7+ despite doing your best with food choices over a long time. I think it might be time to consider metformin. You could ask for SR, and either way if the side effects don't go away within a couple of weeks then don't push yourself to keep taking it. (I suggest discussing this at the start with your HCP so they are aware that if the side effects don't resolve, then the agreed plan is to stop taking it and book an appointment to discuss other options). If you try metformin, take it with food, and ask for an anti nausea pill to help you get through the first couple of weeks.

In addition, I know this might sound extreme, but bear with me. I'm not a fan of Gliclazide or any diabetes meds other than metformin and insulin, due to what I have read about them at Blood Sugar 101. They appear to have side effects and risks that outweigh the benefits. So until better drugs are invented, if I needed to, I would consider insulin. It can be used temporarily or in an ongoing way. The following article explains where I'm coming from:
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/15478720.php

According to the above website, many T2s who need insulin and are carrying extra weight also take metformin, and if they use a basal/bolus MDI regime and carb count with each meal, then they can reduce their BGs and even their weight. So it might be worth reading and thinking about, and asking your HCP to try it. If you want to try it and they won't play ball, you can always see a different HCP.

I hate to see you feeling like you have to give up and accept things the way they are. I don't think you have to accept this. Not without considering metformin and insulin.

Hi CatLady x Wow! You have certainly put a lot of thought and time into trying to sort me out for which I thank you so much xx

I am trying to resign myself to the fact that I'm just not going to see the massive fast weight loss that others do for whatever reason, be it the pills I'm on or the sedentary lifestyle I lead.

As to the 7+ FBG I was disappointed but not overly concerned but from what you say about Metformin and Insulin I guess I should be.

After reading that link about insulin my head was spinning and all I could think was "no way" unless my levels were way up and totally out of control. I know 7s aren't good but I think I'm still making mistakes with the lchf diet which isn't helping but I'm learning and hoping to improve.

For example, I missed breakfast the other day and by the time I ate I was starving. I noted that some people can have a slice of that Burgen Linseed bread and I'd had one in the freezer for ages. OK 11g of carb for one slice but I reckoned that having skipped breakfast it would average out but no, it sent me sky high and took ages to come back down. I also had some of that Highlights chocolate drink in the cupboard and I was really hungry one night before bed and from what I could make out on the label it didn't seem too bad so I made it with just 2 tsp, hot water and a dollop of cream. Definitely not a good idea I just have to accept that I have no margin for error and have to stick rigidly to the stuff I know won't spike me.

I haven't ruled out the Metformin but I'm going to see how things pan out over the next couple of weeks and then re-consider.

I hope you don't feel you're wasting your time on me. I do appreciate it and take note of what you say xxxx Thank you xx

Now I'm going to get off this damned addictive computer and move my backside to put some washing out while the sun's still shining

 

[copey399]

I've had a similarly unimpressive start on a low carb diet (plus more exercise). By and large, my highest readings are the first ones of the day, and lots of the after-a-meal readings are lower than the before-a-meal. This wasn't what I was expecting from what I'd read about the low carb diet. But I'm sticking to it - I'm now a couple of months into this - wondering if there will eventually be an overall shift down in the levels.

I started off recording all the food details every day, got driven mad by that, and because the meals don't vary a lot now, stopped doing it. I'm now thinking of having a week where I carefully record all and everything, to see if I can identify things which might be making a difference one way or the other.

I wish there was someone I could pore over these results with, but it was Diabetes UK which got me onto the low carb diet and monitoring, not my GP or diabetic nurse, so I'm assuming neither of them would be a great deal of help. Am I being too negative?

Much sympathy from me Jennifer x I hope you can find a way that works for you - I'm not giving up yet, still trying xx

 

[copey399]

I have a young relative who lives in a downstairs flat from his aunt and uncle. They have an arrangement where he pays a proportion of his income, whether its from wages or benefit.

He's should be claiming housing benefit it if he's unemployed.
No reason not to pay at all.

Trouble is he won't claim benefits. He's always "got the promise of a job" and thinks it's not worth applying. Truth is he's too lazy to do the signing on and applying for loads of jobs He's actually just got a job so we're expecting some rent soon.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Hi CatLady x Wow! You have certainly put a lot of thought and time into trying to sort me out for which I thank you so much xx

I am trying to resign myself to the fact that I'm just not going to see the massive fast weight loss that others do for whatever reason, be it the pills I'm on or the sedentary lifestyle I lead.

As to the 7+ FBG I was disappointed but not overly concerned but from what you say about Metformin and Insulin I guess I should be.

After reading that link about insulin my head was spinning and all I could think was "no way" unless my levels were way up and totally out of control. I know 7s aren't good but I think I'm still making mistakes with the lchf diet which isn't helping but I'm learning and hoping to improve.

For example, I missed breakfast the other day and by the time I ate I was starving. I noted that some people can have a slice of that Burgen Linseed bread and I'd had one in the freezer for ages. OK 11g of carb for one slice but I reckoned that having skipped breakfast it would average out but no, it sent me sky high and took ages to come back down. I also had some of that Highlights chocolate drink in the cupboard and I was really hungry one night before bed and from what I could make out on the label it didn't seem too bad so I made it with just 2 tsp, hot water and a dollop of cream. Definitely not a good idea I just have to accept that I have no margin for error and have to stick rigidly to the stuff I know won't spike me.

I haven't ruled out the Metformin but I'm going to see how things pan out over the next couple of weeks and then re-consider.

I hope you don't feel you're wasting your time on me. I do appreciate it and take note of what you say xxxx Thank you xx

Now I'm going to get off this damned addictive computer and move my backside to put some washing out while the sun's still shining

It's all good, I certainly don't feel I am wasting my time I'll still be here in a few weeks when you've had a chance to think about things. As you say, there may be room to lower your FBGs through doing more with LCHF and it's a good idea to try that first. The thing about an FBG of 7 is that it doesn't give you much room to increase with food. I know the idea of insulin is pretty scary, but I wanted to give you the info and perhaps plant a seed so that if in a while you're still struggling, you know there is an option up your sleeve if you need it. You really are doing very well, you're motivated and committed and that counts for a lot, I think. I'm tenacious, I'm not giving up on you xx

 

[13lizanne]

We're all so different copey, most of us have or have had other medical conditions too and lots of the people who post on this forum take meds for these conditions. I think that's why so many stress that each person has to find what works for them? I've noticed different folks have various 'gifts' which can help one another e.g @CatLadyNZ is great for giving links to scientific research, @JenniferW is empathetic and positive. You, @copey399 , are great at being kind, encouraging and non-judgemental, you deserve to get this health thing sorted.

 

[copey399]

It's all good, I certainly don't feel I am wasting my time I'll still be here in a few weeks when you've had a chance to think about things. As you say, there may be room to lower your FBGs through doing more with LCHF and it's a good idea to try that first. The thing about an FBG of 7 is that it doesn't give you much room to increase with food. I know the idea of insulin is pretty scary, but I wanted to give you the info and perhaps plant a seed so that if in a while you're still struggling, you know there is an option up your sleeve if you need it. You really are doing very well, you're motivated and committed and that counts for a lot, I think. I'm tenacious, I'm not giving up on you xx

We're all so different copey, most of us have or have had other medical conditions too and lots of the people who post on this forum take meds for these conditions. I think that's why so many stress that each person has to find what works for them? I've noticed different folks have various 'gifts' which can help one another e.g @CatLadyNZ is great for giving links to scientific research, @JenniferW is empathetic and positive. You, @copey399 , are great at being kind, encouraging and non-judgemental, you deserve to get this health thing sorted.

Awww, you're both so lovely and supportive ((hug)) Thank you xxx

I'm just off to get ready for a BBQ. At least I know I can have the meat and salad - just try not to drool over the rolls and crusty bread ... lol. The desserts are a challenge but the last 2 I've been to they had some fresh unadulterated strawberries so I had a few with cream. I really should have planned ahead and taken my own but that's me, always an afterthought. I've got some frozen raspberries so I think I'll put some in a container and they'll have thawed by the time we get to dessert.

Catch you later girls xxxxx

 

[AndBreathe]

Hi CatLady x Wow! You have certainly put a lot of thought and time into trying to sort me out for which I thank you so much xx

I am trying to resign myself to the fact that I'm just not going to see the massive fast weight loss that others do for whatever reason, be it the pills I'm on or the sedentary lifestyle I lead.

As to the 7+ FBG I was disappointed but not overly concerned but from what you say about Metformin and Insulin I guess I should be.

After reading that link about insulin my head was spinning and all I could think was "no way" unless my levels were way up and totally out of control. I know 7s aren't good but I think I'm still making mistakes with the lchf diet which isn't helping but I'm learning and hoping to improve.

For example, I missed breakfast the other day and by the time I ate I was starving. I noted that some people can have a slice of that Burgen Linseed bread and I'd had one in the freezer for ages. OK 11g of carb for one slice but I reckoned that having skipped breakfast it would average out but no, it sent me sky high and took ages to come back down. I also had some of that Highlights chocolate drink in the cupboard and I was really hungry one night before bed and from what I could make out on the label it didn't seem too bad so I made it with just 2 tsp, hot water and a dollop of cream. Definitely not a good idea I just have to accept that I have no margin for error and have to stick rigidly to the stuff I know won't spike me.

I haven't ruled out the Metformin but I'm going to see how things pan out over the next couple of weeks and then re-consider.

I hope you don't feel you're wasting your time on me. I do appreciate it and take note of what you say xxxx Thank you xx

Now I'm going to get off this damned addictive computer and move my backside to put some washing out while the sun's still shining

Copey - The article in this link was recently under discussion, and I certainly found the article interesting, and food for thought. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/38/7/e98.full.pdf

In the briefest of summaries, the article details a small study where the subject was the impact, on blood scores, of the order of eating on blood levels for T2s. In essence, the study found that where carbohydrate was eaten 15 minutes ahead of protein and fat the impact on bloods was significantly different at 30, 60 and 120 minutes. Where the carbohydrate was consumed first (a bit like your example of the Burgen bread, following fasting), the blood scores were, on average 29%, 37% and 17% more elevated than when carbs were eaten last. So, I think you may have, unwittingly, created an almost worst case scenario.

It's a worthwhile read and some thinking material for some additional testing, I'd think.

 

[copey399]

Copey - The article in this link was recently under discussion, and I certainly found the article interesting, and food for thought. http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/38/7/e98.full.pdf

In the briefest of summaries, the article details a small study where the subject was the impact, on blood scores, of the order of eating on blood levels for T2s. In essence, the study found that where carbohydrate was eaten 15 minutes ahead of protein and fat the impact on bloods was significantly different at 30, 60 and 120 minutes. Where the carbohydrate was consumed first (a bit like your example of the Burgen bread, following fasting), the blood scores were, on average 29%, 37% and 17% more elevated than when carbs were eaten last. So, I think you may have, unwittingly, created an almost worst case scenario.

It's a worthwhile read and some thinking material for some additional testing, I'd think.

Yes, that was interesting reading. I did forget to mention that I had 2 eggs on my sinful Bergen bread though, so I actually had carb and protein together so I don't know how that figures in the study.

I think I did well at the BBQ mainly for the things I resisted. We didn't get to eat until 6-ish so I was really hungry but they brought round yummy home made cheese straws (twists) and I had to say no thanks. As well as the usual sausage, burgers etc. our hosts had roasted huge joints of pork and lamb so I just had that and ignored the burgers. I had all the usual salad things with lots of celery and peppers with some coleslaw. 2nd round was prawns and mussels and some more of the delicious pork and here I admit to slipping as I had one of those little rounds of garlic bread. I didn't think that was too bad though considering there was loads of crusty french bread.

Surprisingly they didn't have desserts as such but someone had brought a huge box of iced donut rings which were handed round and I refused and also some profiteroles which I love but again resisted. I have to point out that my o/h tucked into everything, cheese straws, donuts and profiteroles I did my blood before we left and it was 6.5 and when we got back just over 3 hours later it was 5.4. o/h tested and he was ..... wait for it ....32.2

It's a shame I couldn't test earlier to see if the 5.4 was a rapid descent after a high. xx

It was a good evening and shame we had to leave early but he has to be up early tomorrow cos he's going to a model air show somewhere near Dover.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Yes, that was interesting reading. I did forget to mention that I had 2 eggs on my sinful Bergen bread though, so I actually had carb and protein together so I don't know how that figures in the study.

I think I did well at the BBQ mainly for the things I resisted. We didn't get to eat until 6-ish so I was really hungry but they brought round yummy home made cheese straws (twists) and I had to say no thanks. As well as the usual sausage, burgers etc. our hosts had roasted huge joints of pork and lamb so I just had that and ignored the burgers. I had all the usual salad things with lots of celery and peppers with some coleslaw. 2nd round was prawns and mussels and some more of the delicious pork and here I admit to slipping as I had one of those little rounds of garlic bread. I didn't think that was too bad though considering there was loads of crusty french bread.

Surprisingly they didn't have desserts as such but someone had brought a huge box of iced donut rings which were handed round and I refused and also some profiteroles which I love but again resisted. I have to point out that my o/h tucked into everything, cheese straws, donuts and profiteroles I did my blood before we left and it was 6.5 and when we got back just over 3 hours later it was 5.4. o/h tested and he was ..... wait for it ....32.2

It's a shame I couldn't test earlier to see if the 5.4 was a rapid descent after a high. xx

It was a good evening and shame we had to leave early but he has to be up early tomorrow cos he's going to a model air show somewhere near Dover.

Does your OH have diabetes? At a level like that he would be at risk of a condition that is similar to ketoacidosis. How often does his BG go that high?

 

[Indy51]

Jeepers, if your OH isn't convinced of the advantages of LCHF by comparing your meter readings, then I doubt if he is capable of being reached

 

[ickihun]

Trouble is he won't claim benefits. He's always "got the promise of a job" and thinks it's not worth applying. Truth is he's too lazy to do the signing on and applying for loads of jobs He's actually just got a job so we're expecting some rent soon.

Hi Copey watch out for diabetic symptoms in your son. You never know his slugishness could be just a prediabetic indicator. Just a thought. I observe my 2 just in case. X

 

[hankjam]

Yes, that was interesting reading. I did forget to mention that I had 2 eggs on my sinful Bergen bread though, so I actually had carb and protein together so I don't know how that figures in the study.

I think I did well at the BBQ mainly for the things I resisted. We didn't get to eat until 6-ish so I was really hungry but they brought round yummy home made cheese straws (twists) and I had to say no thanks. As well as the usual sausage, burgers etc. our hosts had roasted huge joints of pork and lamb so I just had that and ignored the burgers. I had all the usual salad things with lots of celery and peppers with some coleslaw. 2nd round was prawns and mussels and some more of the delicious pork and here I admit to slipping as I had one of those little rounds of garlic bread. I didn't think that was too bad though considering there was loads of crusty french bread.

Surprisingly they didn't have desserts as such but someone had brought a huge box of iced donut rings which were handed round and I refused and also some profiteroles which I love but again resisted. I have to point out that my o/h tucked into everything, cheese straws, donuts and profiteroles I did my blood before we left and it was 6.5 and when we got back just over 3 hours later it was 5.4. o/h tested and he was ..... wait for it ....32.2

It's a shame I couldn't test earlier to see if the 5.4 was a rapid descent after a high. xx

It was a good evening and shame we had to leave early but he has to be up early tomorrow cos he's going to a model air show somewhere near Dover.

Hi @copey399
I've been reading this thread as it has gone along and wondered if I have anything to contribute. I'm fortunate in that I will eat anything, enjoy cooking and LCHF has worked for my weight, lipids are still under review.

I think you did really well at the BBQ, hunks of meat over burgers everytime, you never know how much breadcrumbs are in the burgers. 5.4 3 hours later is good in any book. VG.
It can't be easy with O/H horsing down everything and coming up with numbers like that....
I would recommend giving a 20 min walk once a day.... it is amazing how quickly it can help. Try to incorporate LC into your routine and once it kicks in it does give positive feedback in a number of ways that does make it easier.
I wish you well and will continue to read your thread.
Hj

 

[AndBreathe]

Yes, that was interesting reading. I did forget to mention that I had 2 eggs on my sinful Bergen bread though, so I actually had carb and protein together so I don't know how that figures in the study.

I think I did well at the BBQ mainly for the things I resisted. We didn't get to eat until 6-ish so I was really hungry but they brought round yummy home made cheese straws (twists) and I had to say no thanks. As well as the usual sausage, burgers etc. our hosts had roasted huge joints of pork and lamb so I just had that and ignored the burgers. I had all the usual salad things with lots of celery and peppers with some coleslaw. 2nd round was prawns and mussels and some more of the delicious pork and here I admit to slipping as I had one of those little rounds of garlic bread. I didn't think that was too bad though considering there was loads of crusty french bread.

Surprisingly they didn't have desserts as such but someone had brought a huge box of iced donut rings which were handed round and I refused and also some profiteroles which I love but again resisted. I have to point out that my o/h tucked into everything, cheese straws, donuts and profiteroles I did my blood before we left and it was 6.5 and when we got back just over 3 hours later it was 5.4. o/h tested and he was ..... wait for it ....32.2

It's a shame I couldn't test earlier to see if the 5.4 was a rapid descent after a high. xx

It was a good evening and shame we had to leave early but he has to be up early tomorrow cos he's going to a model air show somewhere near Dover.

The conditions of the research were (from memory, so casting your eye over or back over the article would help) a gap of 15 minutes between starting the first element and the second. So, eating the protein and veg, then 15 minutes after starting, going onto the carb, or vice versa. My knee jerk reaction was that's not a natural way to eat, but sitting at the table, enjoying our meal and talking, it can take at least that long to get through our food, so it's just a case of mindfully tackling the plate, in order.

I haven't tried it personally, yet, but will get around to it.

 

[ickihun]

Copey I've decided to monitor my calorie intake with the lchf diet but nothing like the newcastle diet.
Your pain when you walk is it restricting your weight loss?
I'm with you trying to find what works for YOU.
Just don't let diabetes run your life. It has to adapt to yours with compromise on both side. Just like any good relationship eh?

 

[copey399]

Does your OH have diabetes? At a level like that he would be at risk of a condition that is similar to ketoacidosis. How often does his BG go that high?

Yes, he's type 2 and on insulin. He just whacks an extra dose in and thinks he's fine. As you can see, he makes no concessions to being diabetic and just eats anything he fancies. He regularly wakes up in the night for a wee and realises that he's "wobbly" and getting near hypo so sits eating toast and jam. All my suggestions, nagging and advice fall on deaf ears. What can you do? You can't help them that won't help themselves. I just worry about him constantly. Even seeing his brother have a leg amputated and some toes off his other leg and being in a very poor state now doesn't encourage him to change. Talk about head in the sand. He's already had 2 heart attacks and I worry that it's only a matter of time before another one.

He's supposed to test regularly and keep a record for his Diabetic reviews but he only does it first thing in the morning before he takes his insulin and after his main meal before his injection in the evening. He mucks about with the dose according to what his reading is. I don't really understand what he's supposed to do. He's currently on Humalog. It says 45 units am and 75 pm but he just ups it when he feels he needs it. He tests when he gets "wobbly" and is usually down to 2 or 3 at which level he can't function. I always insist that he tests before I'll go out in the car with him though.

Hi Copey watch out for diabetic symptoms in your son. You never know his slugishness could be just a prediabetic indicator. Just a thought. I observe my 2 just in case. X

He's actually my grandson icki and he isn't really sluggish, just wouldn't apply himself to getting a job or benefits. He is very active as he is always out on his bmx bike but I did a random test on him the other day (more because of the junk food and energy drinks he lives on) but he was "normal" at the time. But thank you for the thought and I will keep an eye on him for any signs. xx

 

[copey399]

Jeepers, if your OH isn't convinced of the advantages of LCHF by comparing your meter readings, then I doubt if he is capable of being reached

And that's the fact of the matter.

 

[copey399]

The conditions of the research were (from memory, so casting your eye over or back over the article would help) a gap of 15 minutes between starting the first element and the second. So, eating the protein and veg, then 15 minutes after starting, going onto the carb, or vice versa. My knee jerk reaction was that's not a natural way to eat, but sitting at the table, enjoying our meal and talking, it can take at least that long to get through our food, so it's just a case of mindfully tackling the plate, in order.

I haven't tried it personally, yet, but will get around to it.

Yes, I did have a good read through last night but it did start to go a bit over my head apart from the thing you said about having the protein first and the carbs later. Maybe I need to read it again now I'm more awake x

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Yes, he's type 2 and on insulin. He just whacks an extra dose in and thinks he's fine. As you can see, he makes no concessions to being diabetic and just eats anything he fancies. He regularly wakes up in the night for a wee and realises that he's "wobbly" and getting near hypo so sits eating toast and jam. All my suggestions, nagging and advice fall on deaf ears. What can you do? You can't help them that won't help themselves. I just worry about him constantly. Even seeing his brother have a leg amputated and some toes off his other leg and being in a very poor state now doesn't encourage him to change. Talk about head in the sand. He's already had 2 heart attacks and I worry that it's only a matter of time before another one.

He's supposed to test regularly and keep a record for his Diabetic reviews but he only does it first thing in the morning before he takes his insulin and after his main meal before his injection in the evening. He mucks about with the dose according to what his reading is. I don't really understand what he's supposed to do. He's currently on Humalog. It says 45 units am and 75 pm but he just ups it when he feels he needs it. He tests when he gets "wobbly" and is usually down to 2 or 3 at which level he can't function. I always insist that he tests before I'll go out in the car with him though.



He's actually my grandson icki and he isn't really sluggish, just wouldn't apply himself to getting a job or benefits. He is very active as he is always out on his bmx bike but I did a random test on him the other day (more because of the junk food and energy drinks he lives on) but he was "normal" at the time. But thank you for the thought and I will keep an eye on him for any signs. xx

Oh ok, I get it now. He's taking risks letting his BGs go that low, and that high. But there's nothing you can do, he has to want to change. In the meantime, we are here to support you to have the best health possible.

 

[copey399]

Copey I've decided to monitor my calorie intake with the lchf diet but nothing like the newcastle diet.
Your pain when you walk is it restricting your weight loss?
I'm with you trying to find what works for YOU.
Just don't let diabetes run your life. It has to adapt to yours with compromise on both side. Just like any good relationship eh?

Hi icki, I definitely think my back pain is a lot to do with it. It is restricting my activity but every time I go to the doctors they just keep giving me stronger painkillers and when Tramadol made me feel like I was "out of it" he prescribed Gabapentin. I know I'm stupid but I am so pill-phobic that once I read all the side effects I'm put off of taking them. I've just gone back to taking Co-codamol which don't do much. If I don't take the prescribed pills I can't keep going back and complaining. I was hoping for something more than just pills.

I hope you find that monitoring your calories works for you. According to that MyFitnessPal I often had days when it said I wasn't eating enough and I think that's something I have to address too as I think my body might have gone into "starvation mode" where it stores fat thinking it's not getting enough to live on. But then if the Newcastle Diet works on very low calories I don't really understand.

FBG this morning was 6.4 so getting back under the 7s again. Could that be to do with my blow out yesterday I ask myself. I was thinking of doing the opposite to you and upping my intake of food. It's all swings and roundabouts isn't it.

 

[ButtterflyLady]

Hi icki, I definitely think my back pain is a lot to do with it. It is restricting my activity but every time I go to the doctors they just keep giving me stronger painkillers and when Tramadol made me feel like I was "out of it" he prescribed Gabapentin. I know I'm stupid but I am so pill-phobic that once I read all the side effects I'm put off of taking them. I've just gone back to taking Co-codamol which don't do much. If I don't take the prescribed pills I can't keep going back and complaining. I was hoping for something more than just pills.

I hope you find that monitoring your calories works for you. According to that MyFitnessPal I often had days when it said I wasn't eating enough and I think that's something I have to address too as I think my body might have gone into "starvation mode" where it stores fat thinking it's not getting enough to live on. But then if the Newcastle Diet works on very low calories I don't really understand.

FBG this morning was 6.4 so getting back under the 7s again. Could that be to do with my blow out yesterday I ask myself. I was thinking of doing the opposite to you and upping my intake of food. It's all swings and roundabouts isn't it.

Have you seen a specialist about your back? Some people get a steroid injection, or physiotherapy.