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Advice about increasing calcium while on low carb diet

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Swiggy, Feb 14, 2020.

  1. Swiggy

    Swiggy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi everyone, I have just had the results of my bone density scan having broken my arm in a fall in December. My spine is normal but the bone in my hip is slightly thinner than normal. I have been low carbing for over a year now and I have reduced my hba1c from 143 to about 60 without any medication. I have lost 4kg but both my weight and my blood sugar levels remain higher than I would like. My GP, who was initially sceptical about lchf, says that I should carry on with what I am doing and I will reach a point when my blood sugar levels and my weight will drop "like a stone". Does anyone have any suggestions for calcium containing foods that are low carb? I switched from milk to cream because of the carbs but have cut back on both cream and nuts over the past few weeks because of the stubborn scales.
     
  2. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    There are foods rich in calcium such as fish where you eat the bones – such as sardines and pilchards. Then there's broccoli, cabbage , okra, soya beans, tofu and calcium enriched soya drinks.

    I for various reasons am prescribed Adcal + D3 by my GP it may be worth looking into.
     
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  3. TriciaWs

    TriciaWs Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Also chia seeds
    and put a little hard cheese such as cheddar on the green veg?

    Did they check your Vit D levels as often the issue is a lack of Vit D rather than calcium. When mine was checked, pre diabetes and low carb, my blood calcium level was fine but my Vit D was very low so the calcium couldn't be used.
     
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  4. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    In places where milk is not drunk due to a genetic inability to digest lactose, oxtail is often used, marinaded overnight in a solution containing vinegar the calcium is dissolved as the acetate of calcium is soluble. When eaten as a soup, or sauce the liquor is an easily absorbed form of calcium as long as there is vitamin D in the diet.
     
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  5. Swiggy

    Swiggy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I had very low levels of vitamin D about 2 years ago and I have taken supplements since then. I will ask for it to be checked when I have my next hba1c. I like the idea of grated cheese on my veg.
     
  6. Swiggy

    Swiggy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks JohnEGreen, I will ask.
     
  7. Swiggy

    Swiggy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I will ask the butcher if he stocks oxtail, I like Heinz oxtail soup but I doubt that that will be as beneficial.
     
  8. Roller

    Roller Type 2 · BANNED

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    Some of the hard cheeses like vintage cheddar and Parmesan.

    Also fish such as sardines complete with the bones. The bones of course contain calcium.
     
    #8 Roller, Feb 14, 2020 at 4:10 PM
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  9. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Have a look at these low carb calcium food sources
    https://www.everydayhealth.com/weight/calcium-on-a-low-carb-diet.aspx
    and maybe have a read up about the mineral balance that you need for healthy dense bones. It really isn’t all about the calcium.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17092827
    If your doc is reluctant to test for Vit D, you can self fund a test for vitamin D levels, and consider supplementing with K2, potassium, magnesium...
    https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/build-healthy-bones#section7

    My understanding is that it is much better to prevent osteoporosis from developing, rather than trying to revers it once it has happened.
     
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    #9 Brunneria, Feb 14, 2020 at 4:21 PM
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2020
  10. lessci

    lessci Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If you can't get oxtail from your butchers, Morrisions supermarkets sometime stock it (my local ones anyway)
     
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  11. Swiggy

    Swiggy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ooh I bet I'll find it in my local Morrison's, thanks Iessci
     
  12. Swiggy

    Swiggy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Brunnaria, my GP is very supportive of my efforts and I am sure that I will be able to get my vitamin D tested. Do you think that a multi vitamin tablet for 50+ would be a good idea? I know that prevention is better than cure but my spine is normal so maybe I will be able to reverse the loss of density in my hip. I'm going to have a good try.
     
  13. MollieB

    MollieB · Well-Known Member

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    Be sure to get guidance from your doctor before supplementing. It is possible to get toxicity with Vitamin A, D, E, and K. Good levels of Vitamin D are essential to absorption of calcium. It can be hard to get the adequate amounts of D from food. The best source of D is sunlight. That is why vitamin D deficiency is a problem in areas with a lot of cloud overcast. It is also difficult for your body to absorb vitamin D if you are wearing sunscreen SPF 15 or higher.
     
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  14. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    glad your doc is supportive . That is great.

    regarding supplements... this is just my opinion, but I think generic multi vits are a waste of money. Vitamins and minerals come in a lot of different forms (there are something like 9 different forms of magnesium! Each one more or less absorbable than the others).

    multivit manufacturers (quite understandably) want a cheap easy option to pack into their tablets. That doesn’t mean it is the best version for you, with the most bioabsorbability.

    other examples are Vit D (Vit D3 is much better than vitD2) and Vit K, which comes in several diff forms. If you want to help bone strength then you need K2 not K1 (which affects blood clotting and should not be take in excess).

    I suggest you have a good google rummage for recommended vits and mins for bone density, including dose size.

    The last time I heard a doctor discuss Vit K, he didn’t know what it did, and he had no idea that there were different forms of it. So you will probably be on your own for the research. :)

    you can try searching the forum for threads on Vit D3 and K2, magnesium and potassium. You may find useful links on the threads.
     
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  15. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    I'll second this!
     
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  16. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    My pharmacist was not to keen when I mentioned that I took vitamin K supplements because it helps absorption of calcium in the bones.

    He pointed out that as vitamin K is a major contributor for clotting that if I was taking something like aspirin to avoid clots as I am, that the vitamin k may not be such a good idea.
     
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    #16 JohnEGreen, Feb 15, 2020 at 12:55 PM
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  17. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    that is why I emphasised the difference between Vit K1 and Vit K2.
    K1 is to do with clotting.
    K2 is to do with calcium and enabling the calcium to go where it should (rather than calcifying arteries)

    Personally, I wouldn’t take the advice on anyone, doc, pharmacist, friend or forumite, without doing my own reading around on the subject.
    When there are docs out there who don’t know what any of the vit Ks do, and pharmacists not clearly distinguishing between the different Ks, then we really are on our own with this.
    This is why I encourage people to educate themselves, and check on any advice they are given - by anyone.
     
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  18. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    @Brunneria

    I'm not saying you are in error but pleased be advised I do look up stuff and do research things and never take advice on blind faith.


    "Vitamin K (both K1 and K2) can interfere with blood thinning medications like Warfarin and Coumadin.
    If you've been prescribed these drugs and you are also taking Vitamin K1 and/or K2, be sure to talk to your doctor.
    If Vitamin K2 is taken at greater than 50 mcg per day, it can interfere with the blood thinning function of these drugs. (Virtually all K2 supplements contain more than 50 mcg per pill.)"

    "
    How do Vitamins K1 and K2 Affect INR?
    INR (International Normalized Ratio) is a measure of clotting time. The lower your INR, the faster your blood clots. Conversely, the higher the INR, the 'thinner' the blood.
    An INR range of 2.0 to 3.0 is the typical therapeutic range for people taking warfarin, while a number under 1 is considered normal for healthy folk.
    Long-term consumption of Vitamin K1 of 700  mcg reduced INR values from 2 to 1.5. Vitamin K2 supplementation is more potent at reducing INR and 200  mcg of K2 will reduce INR values from 2 to 1.5.
    Vitamin K2 supplementation higher than 50 mcg per day requires INR monitoring by your doctor because the K2 may be undoing some of the intended effect of Warfarin.
    50 mcg of Vitamin K2 is what you'd get from 3 to 4 ounces of European hard cheese. This much K2 is expected to disturb INR by only about 10%, which may be an acceptable variability in your treatment. Please discuss with your doctor.
    Managing a relatively steady INR while ingesting enough K2 to maintain strong bones is a balancing act that you and your doctor will have to sort out using blood tests. "

    https://innovixlabs.com/blogs/insights/vitamin-k2-and-coagulation
     
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  19. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Thanks for the clarification John,

    It is useful info (and info I had not previously encountered) that even K2 can, in large enough amounts, affect clotting rates for those on blood thinning drugs. Very useful.

    I habitually take 100-200mcg daily, either in food, or with supplements alongside my Vit D3
    It isn’t often I bleed (last time was a kitchen knife cut) but I didn’t notice any problems with clotting - but then I’m not taking Warfarin as well.
     
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  20. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Master

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    To be honest as did I but it is best to be aware of any risks associated with it. And as I take aspirin I decided to at least cut down my K2 consumption.
     
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