Advice on low carb diet possible side effects

[jonnoras]

@jonnoras I felt exactly the same as you. For the last few months I have gone from one thing to the other and ended up confused. I have now got Jason Fung obesity code book and am watching his lectures, I am following the diet doctor low carb challenge and then Im going to fast as per Jason Fung. I have found what I have learnt to be facinating but it's no good trying to follow advice on forums as there are too many conflicting opinions. I am on holiday this week but the week after I will be on it. Good luck with your research.

Hey. Thanks for the reply. It is confusing sometimes. Have a good hols. J

 

[KevinPotts]

J there are around 150 well formulated studies/research reinforcing the efficacy of LCHF. I was put on one with added exercise, intermittent fasting and supplementation by my doctor and the results have been dramatic


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[SunnyExpat]

J there are around 150 well formulated studies/research reinforcing the efficacy of LCHF. I was put on one with added exercise, intermittent fasting and supplementation by my doctor and the results have been dramatic


Sent from my iPad using DCUK Forum

Sounds like you have a good relationship with your doctor as well.

 

[KevinPotts]

Sounds like you have a good relationship with your doctor as well.

Yes...great. I'm talking to him
about training as a Diabetic Educator with the NHS and then volunteering in his surgery, 1 day a week

Could be interesting


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[SunnyExpat]

Yes...great. I'm talking to him
about training as a Diabetic Educator with the NHS and then volunteering in his surgery, 1 day a week

Could be interesting


Sent from my iPhone using DCUK Forum

Excellent, should be good.

 

[luna50]

You can get vitamin B12 deficiency even if there is plenty in your diet - some people lack the ability to absorb it properly due to an autoimmune condition.http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Anaemia-vitamin-B12-and-folate-deficiency/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Your Doctor would be able to test for this.

Deficiency of cobalamin can have different reasons and not only due to an autoimmune condition.
Some persons if they use metformin for a long period, then he or she get problems with the G.V's secretion of intrinsic factor (IF) from the parietal cells.
It is a friendly reminder
Hi

 

[Dark Horse]

Deficiency of cobalamin can have different reasons and not only due to an autoimmune condition.
Some persons if they use metformin for a long period, then he or she get problems with the G.V's secretion of intrinsic factor (IF) from the parietal cells.
It is a friendly reminder
Hi

Metformin isn't thought to affect secretion of intrinsic factor by the parietal cells of the stomach. The current theory is that it reduces the availability of calcium necessary for absorption of the intrinsic factor-B12 complex by the ileum in the small intestine. Supplementation with calcium has been shown to reverse metformin-induced B12 deficiency.
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=x20151204102944747162

However, the OP is not taking metformin so this is not relevant to his question.

 

[Dark Horse]

Researchers also found that using calcium supplements (1,200 mg/day) helped limit metformin’s effect on vitamin B12 absorption in a group of individuals.

http://www.lifeextension.com/magazine/2007/8/atp/page-01

 

[luna50]

Metformin isn't thought to affect secretion of intrinsic factor by the parietal cells of the stomach. The current theory is that it reduces the availability of calcium necessary for absorption of the intrinsic factor-B12 complex by the ileum in the small intestine. Supplementation with calcium has been shown to reverse metformin-induced B12 deficiency.
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=x20151204102944747162

However, the OP is not taking metformin so this is not relevant to his question.

Metformin isn't thought to affect secretion of intrinsic factor by the parietal cells of the stomach. The current theory is that it reduces the availability of calcium necessary for absorption of the intrinsic factor-B12 complex by the ileum in the small intestine. Supplementation with calcium has been shown to reverse metformin-induced B12 deficiency.
http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=x20151204102944747162

However, the OP is not taking metformin so this is not relevant to his question.

The point is You have not take consideration for the differential diagnoses about Cobalamin deficiency and you only claim it is due to an autoimmune condition. The rest of your writing is no important.
You write; " However, the OP is not taking metformin so this is not relevant to his question."
As point one , I do not write that OP use metformin. Please read careful my text.
YES it is relevant because Cobalamin has entero hepatic cycle and the B12 deficiency come very slowly. The B12 to be absorbet back in the organism there must be the IF-molecules , secreted from the parietal cells in the Gaster Ventriculus (Stomach), in the intestine.
All this is a common knowledge in the medical science and do not need a references to the internet.
There is no doubt that Cobalamin to be absorbed by the intestine must first to bind to the IF molecule.
This links you present here is from the popular press on the internet and not from the serious medical literature.

If you read in the last word of "PHARMACOLOGY, Rang and Dale's " on the page Nr.: 312, then you can read all that I am writing to you. There is no information about the Ca need to be absorbed , on the other hand there stand " Vitamin B12, complexed with intrinsic factor, is absorbed by active transport in the terminal ileum".
I trust only to the serious literature and not to the internet .
LInk to the Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_transport
Have a nice day , Sorry, but this is the truth.

 

[luna50]

Sorry, the article is too short a precis and gives no concept of what and how much calcium supplementation consists.

This is of special iterest to people in the post 40 age group where osteopenia can be a concern

I am impress for your Sharp mind, that you do not absorb all without to use your cognitive ability.
Continue with that and be careful because there can be dangerous on this forum to be bright.
With regards

 

[luna50]

That video is absurd. The meal chosen was huge amounts of fat (olive oil by the cup), plus a sub, plus pizza, which is more fat with protein and carbs.
- definitely not the way of eating described as Low Carb.

It is a better example of 'the Pizza Effect' where the fat/carb/protein combo is notorious for messing up blood glucose control for hours after eating.

Also worth remembering that the reason Cholesterol should be tested after a 10 hour fast, is because food (carbs as well as fats) are transported in the blood as Triglycerides. Since Melodramatic Doctor (seen writhing on the floor for extra drama) has eaten fat, carbs and protein, his body is doing what it is supposed to do - namely transport that fat and carb away to the cells to be stored for later energy use.

The video shows nothing can can remotely be compared with a well formulated low carb diet, and is nothing more than showmanship. Even the creepy music is farcical.

In the: LOw-Carb diet forum / A new low-Carb guide for beginners, Sanguine write:
» Low carb (ketogenic) 0-50g carbohydrate per day
» Typical low carb 50-90g
» Liberal low carb 90-130g
» Moderate carb 130-170g
» High carb 170 g and more

As I can see, you have warm feelings and protector for the concept Low-Carb diet.
As you can see the LOw-Carb concept is many diferent regime.
Which of this you understand as the Low-Carb diet and you will recommend it to the diabetics?
If you recommend only a Low-Carb diet, it is a floating word combination.

Hi

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

No long term studies show safety of high fat diets and they are well known to cause blood sludging and this can restrict flow to your periferal tissues.eg-https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3igKW6bl3FE
It's possible you were correct in blaming your diet however the gp should be consulted.

Well you ASSERT that's it's 'well-known' - but I've never seen any studies that say that, and none turn up on Google. You might be confusing High Fat + High Carb diets with Low Carb + High Fat diets.

 

[ChrisSamsDad]

Thanks for all your replies again. I haven't been to the doctor yet as I think it might be a compressed (peritoneal) nerve through too much leg crossing. It never struck me but as I have lost quite a lot of weight my "padding" has obviously reduced thus the effect of leg crossing has been heightened. I have stopped crossing my legs and it appears to be (very slowly) improving.

cheers J

HA! I've found I've been getting a numb-bum and legs with sitting down now, I'd also come to the conclusion it was lack of padding. I've had to get some of those padded cycle pants which make you look like a toddler with a nappy on. (for cycling of course, not just everyday sitting).

 

[Dark Horse]

The point is You have not take consideration for the differential diagnoses about Cobalamin deficiency and you only claim it is due to an autoimmune condition. The rest of your writing is no important.
You write; " However, the OP is not taking metformin so this is not relevant to his question."
As point one , I do not write that OP use metformin. Please read careful my text.
YES it is relevant because Cobalamin has entero hepatic cycle and the B12 deficiency come very slowly. The B12 to be absorbet back in the organism there must be the IF-molecules , secreted from the parietal cells in the Gaster Ventriculus (Stomach), in the intestine.
All this is a common knowledge in the medical science and do not need a references to the internet.
There is no doubt that Cobalamin to be absorbed by the intestine must first to bind to the IF molecule.
This links you present here is from the popular press on the internet and not from the serious medical literature.

If you read in the last word of "PHARMACOLOGY, Rang and Dale's " on the page Nr.: 312, then you can read all that I am writing to you. There is no information about the Ca need to be absorbed , on the other hand there stand " Vitamin B12, complexed with intrinsic factor, is absorbed by active transport in the terminal ileum".
I trust only to the serious literature and not to the internet .
LInk to the Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_transport
Have a nice day , Sorry, but this is the truth.

"you only claim it is due to an autoimmune condition"
I did NOT claim that B12 deficiency is only due to an autoimmune condition. If you look carefully, you will see that I said there are other causes apart from diet and I gave the example of autoimmune disease. The use of the letter 's' at the end of the word causes indicates a plural in English and means that "there is more than one cause". Other causes include atrophic gastritis, pancreatic insufficiency, coeliac disease, Crohn's disease, long-term use of proton pump inhibitors and so on. I recommended the OP see his GP who is the correct person to perform a differential diagnosis.

"I do not write that OP use metformin. Please read careful my text."
I did not say that you said the OP used metformin. Please read my text carefully.

"YES it is relevant because Cobalamin has entero hepatic cycle and the B12 deficiency come very slowly."
If we were having a general discussion about B12 deficiency it would be relevant. We weren't. We were discussing the OP's symptoms and as he is not on metformin it was not relevant to the original question. It would be reasonable to include it in the discussion for general information but not to criticise others for responding to the question in hand.

"I trust only to the serious literature and not to the internet "
Apologies if the link was not serious enough for you - I chose it as I thought the language was simple enough for a non-native speaker. I agree that there is a lot of information of dubious quality on the internet. However, it is possible to get good quality information if you know where to look and how to evaluate it.

"If you read in the last word of "PHARMACOLOGY, Rang and Dale's " on the page Nr.: 312, then you can read all that I am writing to you. There is no information about the Ca need to be absorbed"
I don't own a copy of Rang and Dale's so I'll take your word for it. However, the role of calcium ions is mentioned in this journal article (which I consider to be serious literature) http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/23/9/1227 It is also mentioned in GP notebook which is the reference that GPs are often using when they appear to be "googling" during a consultation http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=x20151204102944747162

"I am impress for your Sharp mind, that you do not absorb all without to use your cognitive ability.
Continue with that and be careful because there can be dangerous on this forum to be bright."
I'm not sure what you are threatening here but I don't think it is appropriate.

At least we agree cobalamin forms a complex with intrinsic factor before being absorbed in the ileum.

 

[luna50]

"you only claim it is due to an autoimmune condition"
I did NOT claim that B12 deficiency is only due to an autoimmune condition. If you look carefully, you will see that I said there are other causes apart from diet and I gave the example of autoimmune disease. The use of the letter 's' at the end of the word causes indicates a plural in English and means that "there is more than one cause". Other causes include atrophic gastritis, pancreatic insufficiency, coeliac disease, Crohn's disease, long-term use of proton pump inhibitors and so on. I recommended the OP see his GP who is the correct person to perform a differential diagnosis.

"I do not write that OP use metformin. Please read careful my text."
I did not say that you said the OP used metformin. Please read my text carefully.

"YES it is relevant because Cobalamin has entero hepatic cycle and the B12 deficiency come very slowly."
If we were having a general discussion about B12 deficiency it would be relevant. We weren't. We were discussing the OP's symptoms and as he is not on metformin it was not relevant to the original question. It would be reasonable to include it in the discussion for general information but not to criticise others for responding to the question in hand.

"I trust only to the serious literature and not to the internet "
Apologies if the link was not serious enough for you - I chose it as I thought the language was simple enough for a non-native speaker. I agree that there is a lot of information of dubious quality on the internet. However, it is possible to get good quality information if you know where to look and how to evaluate it.

"If you read in the last word of "PHARMACOLOGY, Rang and Dale's " on the page Nr.: 312, then you can read all that I am writing to you. There is no information about the Ca need to be absorbed"
I don't own a copy of Rang and Dale's so I'll take your word for it. However, the role of calcium ions is mentioned in this journal article (which I consider to be serious literature) http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/23/9/1227 It is also mentioned in GP notebook which is the reference that GPs are often using when they appear to be "googling" during a consultation http://www.gpnotebook.co.uk/simplepage.cfm?ID=x20151204102944747162

"I am impress for your Sharp mind, that you do not absorb all without to use your cognitive ability.
Continue with that and be careful because there can be dangerous on this forum to be bright."
I'm not sure what you are threatening here but I don't think it is appropriate.

At least we agree cobalamin forms a complex with intrinsic factor before being absorbed in the ileum.

Thank you for the reminder that I am not English and that you in England use the letter "s" as indicator for pluralis. We use too an "s" for pluralis.
I am sorry for trying to make me understandable on your language, because you will not understand if I write on my language.
In your long list of words/names/ you have forgot the disease that is due to an autoimmune condition, i.e. Addisonian pernicious anaemia.
You have writen : "You can get vitamin B12 deficiency even if there is plenty in your diet - some people lack the ability to absorb it properly due to an autoimmune condition" and do not write now as "If you look carefully, you will see that I said there are other causes apart from diet and I gave the example of autoimmune disease" You shod read careful what you have writen and not write new text. It is perhaps the difference in our grammar. Sorry, do not blame me for that.
.
This claim about the Calcium involved in the absorption of the B12 vitamin, it is like the claim about the existence of the diagnose Diabetes Mellitus 1.5. T1.5DM do not exist in the who ICD-10 database.
Rowanberry are Sour! Say the Fox.We are many that can read and understand the scientific medical literature, without to be an English man and master the English grammar!

Have a nice day

PS The text " "I am impress for your Sharp mind, that you do not absorb all without to use your cognitive ability.Continue with that and be careful because there can be dangerous on this forum to be bright."I'm not sure what you are threatening here but I don't think it is appropriate."

This text has not been intended to You. Please read as an real English man , as you say you are, and show that you are quick-witted.

 

[Dark Horse]

I never said that I was an English man.

I appreciate your efforts to write in English and I am full of admiration for people who can make themselves understood in a foreign language. From your comments I saw 2 possibilities. Either you had not understood that 'causes' was a plural or you were deliberately distorting what you'd read in order to force an argument. I gave you the benefit of the doubt by pointing out that I had used a plural but I now see that you are just trolling.

The thread has been derailed enough already so I shan't be commenting further. Have a nice day.

 

[Brunneria]

In the: LOw-Carb diet forum / A new low-Carb guide for beginners, Sanguine write:
» Low carb (ketogenic) 0-50g carbohydrate per day
» Typical low carb 50-90g
» Liberal low carb 90-130g
» Moderate carb 130-170g
» High carb 170 g and more

As I can see, you have warm feelings and protector for the concept Low-Carb diet.
As you can see the LOw-Carb concept is many diferent regime.
Which of this you understand as the Low-Carb diet and you will recommend it to the diabetics?
If you recommend only a Low-Carb diet, it is a floating word combination.

Hi

Everyone is free to find their own place in the Low Carb range.
One of the things that makes it so useful is its adaptability.
- so just keep adjusting it until you find the right carb level for you.

 

[luna50]

I never said that I was an English man.

I appreciate your efforts to write in English and I am full of admiration for people who can make themselves understood in a foreign language. From your comments I saw 2 possibilities. Either you had not understood that 'causes' was a plural or you were deliberately distorting what you'd read in order to force an argument. I gave you the benefit of the doubt by pointing out that I had used a plural but I now see that you are just trolling.

The thread has been derailed enough already so I shan't be commenting further. Have a nice day.

Thanks for the pleasant word duel and remember!
Latin: Amicus Plato, sed magis amica veritas
( On English: I trust to Plato, but I trust more to the TRUTH)
Have a nice future

 

[luna50]

Sorry, the article is too short a precis and gives no concept of what and how much calcium supplementation consists.

This is of special iterest to people in the post 40 age group where osteopenia can be a concern

Hi Galja
About the Calcium dose.
For children above 11 year and grown people the dose is 0,5 to 1,0 g/day.
For the persons above 70 year the recommendations are 0,8 to 1,0 g/day combine with 20 microgram with vitamin D (Calciferol). Most important from this vitamins are D2 and D3 and they are a derivate from ergosterol.
Please read the links!
Have a nice day and be happy

PS Remember the mathematical syntax off 1,200 mg/ day mean 0,0012 gram/day. He shod has write 1.200,00 mg/day. The person who write this do not like to be corrected, but he is an expert to correct another people.
Comma is delimiter for decimal digits. Point is delimiter for whole digit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16855957 (2006)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16673011 (2006)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18286218 (2008)

 

[Dark Horse]

Hi Galja
About the Calcium dose.
For children above 11 year and grown people the dose is 0,5 to 1,0 g/day.
For the persons above 70 year the recommendations are 0,8 to 1,0 g/day combine with 20 microgram with vitamin D (Calciferol). Most important from this vitamins are D2 and D3 and they are a derivate from ergosterol.
Please read the links!
Have a nice day and be happy

PS Remember the mathematical syntax off 1,200 mg/ day mean 0,0012 gram/day. He shod has write 1.200,00 mg/day. The person who write this do not like to be corrected, but he is an expert to correct another people.
Comma is delimiter for decimal digits. Point is delimiter for whole digit.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16855957 (2006)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16673011 (2006)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18286218 (2008)

Not all countries use commas and full stops within numbers in the same way. In the English-speaking world of science, for example, 1,200 means one thousand two hundred and 1.200 means one plus two tenths.

1,200 mg is therefore the same as 1.2 g.