Advice please

[Majii]

I thought I’d posted this. Apologies if I’ve duplicated I can’t find it with threads.

Could anyone explain what this means?
C peptide 959 pmol/L
Consistent with pro-insulin secretion!

Also, my bloods are usually higher when I haven’t eaten for 5 to 12 hours than they are when I’ve eaten 2 hours ago - what does that mean? Please don’t say I’m not testing properly or at the right time. My GP kept saying that so I got one of those Libra things for a few weeks from the GP which proved my point.

I stopped medication for a couple of months due to reactions and my blood sugar increased by 10 I felt It wasn’t too bad as my diet is abysmal,
I’m now on a new medication
I am always really hungry, no matter how much I eat I’m hungry what does this mean if anything?

Thanks in advance

 

[Melgar]

I thought I’d posted this. Apologies if I’ve duplicated I can’t find it with threads.

Could anyone explain what this means?
C peptide 959 pmol/L
Consistent with pro-insulin secretion!

Also, my bloods are usually higher when I haven’t eaten for 5 to 12 hours than they are when I’ve eaten 2 hours ago - what does that mean? Please don’t say I’m not testing properly or at the right time. My GP kept saying that so I got one of those Libra things for a few weeks from the GP which proved my point.

I stopped medication for a couple of months due to reactions and my blood sugar increased by 10 I felt It wasn’t too bad as my diet is abysmal,
I’m now on a new medication
I am always really hungry, no matter how much I eat I’m hungry what does this mean if anything?

Thanks in advance

Hi there @Majii , C-Peptides are often measured to see how much insulin your Pancreas is producing. They measure C-peptide secretion rather than insulin itself because insulin has a very short shelf life, and so if insulin is not measured straight away it will likely give an inaccurate result. C-peptides on the other hand are more stable and are therefore the preferred measurement to see how much insulin you are producing. There is a direct correlation between insulin secretion and C-peptide secretion. Your 959 pmol/l result, if you were in a fasted state, means that you are producing relatively high amounts of insulin.

If you don’t mind me asking, what are your blood sugars like?

While in a fasted state, depending on the time of day your liver is likely dumping glycogen. This is more prevalent in the early mornings as your body prepares for activity. In a body that is metabolically healthy, the body deals very quickly with this liver dump. In someone with Type 2 diabetes the body is unable to bring those blood sugars down in a timely manner, so your blood sugars rise. Insulin resistance rises in the mornings in none diabetics too, but as already stated in someone with a healthy metabolism this rise is dealt with quickly, not so in type 2 diabetes, hence your fasting blood sugars can be elevated.

Insulin resistance is one of the main drivers of Type 2 diabetes , along with your pancreas’ inability to produce enough insulin to compensate for your insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is when your body becomes insensitive to insulin. Insulin is the key to opening your cell doors, so to speak, allowing blood glucose to enter your cells for energy. When your body becomes insulin resistant your cells are not allowing insulin to open the door to the Blood glucose. This is one of the reasons why blood sugar rises in the blood because its got no where to go so it stays in your blood - type 2 diabetes.
When you become insulin resistant your pancreas has to produce a lot more insulin to compensate for this resistance, hence this is why your C-peptide results are highish.
Insulin resistance can make you feel very hungry because your cells are not getting enough sugar to convert to energy, due to you being insulin resistant. Your cells are likely signalling your brain to eat. Your brain thinks that you need to eat because your cells are telling the brain they need energy. Hence the hunger. I hope that makes sense.

 

[VashtiB]

Hi @Majii

In relation to bloods being higher when you haven't eaten- I find that my levels increase from when I wake up until I eat something. I usually go for a walk first thing (impatient dogs who do not believe in sleeping in!) and my levels rise until I get back home and actually eat something. I find it pays off later for me.

Our bodies are very complex and react to things differently so you may just need to experiment a bit. Also other things may be affecting the levels like exercise or stress. Some find coffee raises their levels. It can be tricky.

Being hungry all the time is not sustainable- what sort of things do you eat in an average day?

Virtual hugs

 

[Majii]

I thought I’d posted this. Apologies if I’ve duplicated I can’t find it with threads.

Could anyone explain what this means?
C peptide 959 pmol/L
Consistent with pro-insulin secretion!

Also, my bloods are usually higher when I haven’t eaten for 5 to 12 hours than they are when I’ve eaten 2 hours ago - what does that mean? Please don’t say I’m not testing properly or at the right time. My GP kept saying that so I got one of those Libra things for a few weeks from the GP which proved my point.

I stopped medication for a couple of months due to reactions and my blood sugar increased by 10 I felt It wasn’t too bad as my diet is abysmal,
I’m now on a new medication
I am always really hungry, no matter how much I eat I’m hungry what does this mean if anything?

Thanks in advance

Hi @Majii

In relation to bloods being higher when you haven't eaten- I find that my levels increase from when I wake up until I eat something. I usually go for a walk first thing (impatient dogs who do not believe in sleeping in!) and my levels rise until I get back home and actually eat something. I find it pays off later for me.

Our bodies are very complex and react to things differently so you may just need to experiment a bit. Also other things may be affecting the levels like exercise or stress. Some find coffee raises their levels. It can be tricky.

Being hungry all the time is not sustainable- what sort of things do you eat in an average day?

Virtual hugs

Lately I eat whatever is around (cold tinned peas recently I didn’t buy food thinking if I don’t have it can’t eat it)
My diet is mainly meat and dairy free but I eat too much bread and potatoes for anyone let alone a diabetic
My bloods get higher the longer I fast some days but others can go lower which is confusing
I am always high in night and morning it takes my body about two hours to lower first thing after I eat in morning
Then during day takes five hours or more for levels to go down after eating
I admit I need to do more diet wise but I was pre diabetic on same diet so maybe just getting older

 

[Majii]

Hi there @Majii , C-Peptides are often measured to see how much insulin your Pancreas is producing. They measure C-peptide secretion rather than insulin itself because insulin has a very short shelf life, and so if insulin is not measured straight away it will likely give an inaccurate result. C-peptides on the other hand are more stable and are therefore the preferred measurement to see how much insulin you are producing. There is a direct correlation between insulin secretion and C-peptide secretion. Your 959 pmol/l result, if you were in a fasted state, means that you are producing relatively high amounts of insulin.

If you don’t mind me asking, what are your blood sugars like?

While in a fasted state, depending on the time of day your liver is likely dumping glycogen. This is more prevalent in the early mornings as your body prepares for activity. In a body that is metabolically healthy, the body deals very quickly with this liver dump. In someone with Type 2 diabetes the body is unable to bring those blood sugars down in a timely manner, so your blood sugars rise. Insulin resistance rises in the mornings in none diabetics too, but as already stated in someone with a healthy metabolism this rise is dealt with quickly, not so in type 2 diabetes, hence your fasting blood sugars can be elevated.

Insulin resistance is one of the main drivers of Type 2 diabetes , along with your pancreas’ inability to produce enough insulin to compensate for your insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is when your body becomes insensitive to insulin. Insulin is the key to opening your cell doors, so to speak, allowing blood glucose to enter your cells for energy. When your body becomes insulin resistant your cells are not allowing insulin to open the door to the Blood glucose. This is one of the reasons why blood sugar rises in the blood because its got no where to go so it stays in your blood - type 2 diabetes.
When you become insulin resistant your pancreas has to produce a lot more insulin to compensate for this resistance, hence this is why your C-peptide results are highish.
Insulin resistance can make you feel very hungry because your cells are not getting enough sugar to convert to energy, due to you being insulin resistant. Your cells are likely signalling your brain to eat. Your brain thinks that you need to eat because your cells are telling the brain they need energy. Hence the hunger. I hope that makes sense.

My bloods are 54 without diabetic medication and 47-48 with diabetic medication
Thanks for explantion it helps
I’ve gained over 9kg in three months and can’t continue
I have other autoimmune disease and cancer of the hormones which does not help I guess (both liver and pancreas resected five years ago but I meet patients who are in same situation as me and not diabetic)
Does pro insulin secretion indicate type 1 or type 2?
I’m aware technically I’m type 3 due to surgery and damage to pancreas doctors like to use type 2 and it’s same Managment so I guess does not matter

Hi there @Majii , C-Peptides are often measured to see how much insulin your Pancreas is producing. They measure C-peptide secretion rather than insulin itself because insulin has a very short shelf life, and so if insulin is not measured straight away it will likely give an inaccurate result. C-peptides on the other hand are more stable and are therefore the preferred measurement to see how much insulin you are producing. There is a direct correlation between insulin secretion and C-peptide secretion. Your 959 pmol/l result, if you were in a fasted state, means that you are producing relatively high amounts of insulin.

If you don’t mind me asking, what are your blood sugars like?

While in a fasted state, depending on the time of day your liver is likely dumping glycogen. This is more prevalent in the early mornings as your body prepares for activity. In a body that is metabolically healthy, the body deals very quickly with this liver dump. In someone with Type 2 diabetes the body is unable to bring those blood sugars down in a timely manner, so your blood sugars rise. Insulin resistance rises in the mornings in none diabetics too, but as already stated in someone with a healthy metabolism this rise is dealt with quickly, not so in type 2 diabetes, hence your fasting blood sugars can be elevated.

Insulin resistance is one of the main drivers of Type 2 diabetes , along with your pancreas’ inability to produce enough insulin to compensate for your insulin resistance. Insulin resistance is when your body becomes insensitive to insulin. Insulin is the key to opening your cell doors, so to speak, allowing blood glucose to enter your cells for energy. When your body becomes insulin resistant your cells are not allowing insulin to open the door to the Blood glucose. This is one of the reasons why blood sugar rises in the blood because its got no where to go so it stays in your blood - type 2 diabetes.
When you become insulin resistant your pancreas has to produce a lot more insulin to compensate for this resistance, hence this is why your C-peptide results are highish.
Insulin resistance can make you feel very hungry because your cells are not getting enough sugar to convert to energy, due to you being insulin resistant. Your cells are likely signalling your brain to eat. Your brain thinks that you need to eat because your cells are telling the brain they need energy. Hence the hunger. I hope that makes sense.

Lately I eat whatever is around (cold tinned peas recently I didn’t buy food thinking if I don’t have it can’t eat it)
My diet is mainly meat and dairy free but I eat too much bread and potatoes for anyone let alone a diabetic
My bloods get higher the longer I fast some days but others can go lower which is confusing
I am always high in night and morning it takes my body about two hours to lower first thing after I eat in morning
Then during day takes five hours or more for levels to go down after eating
I admit I need to do more diet wise but I was pre diabetic on same diet so maybe just getting older

 

[ianf0ster]

What makes you think that management for Type 3 (pancreas damage) is the same as for Type 2 (insulin resistance)?
Also (unless I'm mistaken) your C-peptide test is showing that you are producing plenty of insulin, so this would tend to negate the idea of you being a Type 3.

Why are you avoiding meat and avoiding dairy, unless you are lactose intolerant?
Many of us in this forum got our Type 2 into remission by merely cutting down on carbohydrates and eating more protein and fat i.e. more meat, fish, full fat dairy, eggs, avodado, nuts , leafy greens etc.

 

[Majii]

Two endocrinologists at different hospitals and my GP say type 2 and type 3 are managed with background insulin and or Metformin
I am told type 3c may apply to me but it’s semantics getting the levels down is what is important (not saying I agree but I accept)
I have rarely eaten meat, fish or dairy do not like to do so
In the past I have reversed diabetes and no need for meds despite being on insulin pump for a time following surgery, I have gone down to pre diabetic readings for years but recently had to come off all meds due to side effects in June
I am back at beginning trying to adjust to new meds prescribed two weeks ago
I have suffered high and lows because I have recurrence of Neuoendocrine cancer that affect pancreas enzymes and hormones
I sometimes take a drug that has side effect of increase in insulin and glucagon as well as affecting beta and alpha cells
However, I know people who’ve had their pancreas resected are not diabetic - I was one of them
And I know people on same drug for same cancer as me who don’t have highs and lows (but don’t have reacted liver and pancreas)
I am aware my diet is an issue but I’m stressed and starving all the time or so it feels I wake at night hungry but never get up to eat - it new in last few weeks
But oddly before the cancer and diabetes, that came along after liver and pancreas resection. I had the same diet and exercise regime and I was fine didn’t have diabetes

 

[Chris24Main]

That's a pretty complicated set of information.
insulin and glucagon are antagonistic - insulin reduces blood glucose (and does a bunch of other things - @Melgar 's summary above is one of the most concise descriptions I've seen on insulin resistance) and glucagon increases it (when your body detects that blood sugar is low) - so it's strange to think of something that stimulates both. It's your beta an alpha cells that do the production of these hormones, but usually it switches between one and the other, under enzyme control from the liver.

I've found over and over that this topic is so complicated that you can find you are told things which are true on their face, but utterly unhelpful. Type 2 diabetes is a condition of consistently too much insulin and glucose; there are circumstances when additional insulin can help, but fundamentally it's treating only one symptom, not the underlying condition. What you have been told is not untrue, but I don't think it's particularly helpful.

You're probably coming to the conclusion though, that anything you can do to make it easier for your body to cope with all of this should help. Biologically, anything close to glucose (sugars and starches) will trigger an insulin response (meaning your body will want insulin by some means to clear it out of your blood) and the end result will be hunger, so as @ianf0ster says - anything with more protein and fat will simply be easier to work with, as without carbs they don't require insulin (so less of an issue with the pancreas) to be digested.

If you've reversed it before, though, you are a whole step ahead of me; I'm only some way toward reversing mine.

 

[Melgar]

And just to add onto the advice given to you by both @ianf0ster and @Chris24Main it may help to bring down your insulin resistance, given your C-peptides are on the higher end (your pancreas is producing a lot of insulin). It’s possible to achieve this by working your muscles, ie resistance training. Your skeletal muscles consume 70% of all blood glucose so working them can be very effective. So bringing down your insulin resistance or putting it another way, increasing your insulin sensitivity, may allow your pancreas to cope better by allowing the insulin you are producing to be more effective and thus may lower your blood sugars.

 

[Majii]

That's a pretty complicated set of information.
insulin and glucagon are antagonistic - insulin reduces blood glucose (and does a bunch of other things - @Melgar 's summary above is one of the most concise descriptions I've seen on insulin resistance) and glucagon increases it (when your body detects that blood sugar is low) - so it's strange to think of something that stimulates both. It's your beta an alpha cells that do the production of these hormones, but usually it switches between one and the other, under enzyme control from the liver.

I've found over and over that this topic is so complicated that you can find you are told things which are true on their face, but utterly unhelpful. Type 2 diabetes is a condition of consistently too much insulin and glucose; there are circumstances when additional insulin can help, but fundamentally it's treating only one symptom, not the underlying condition. What you have been told is not untrue, but I don't think it's particularly helpful.

You're probably coming to the conclusion though, that anything you can do to make it easier for your body to cope with all of this should help. Biologically, anything close to glucose (sugars and starches) will trigger an insulin response (meaning your body will want insulin by some means to clear it out of your blood) and the end result will be hunger, so as @ianf0ster says - anything with more protein and fat will simply be easier to work with, as without carbs they don't require insulin (so less of an issue with the pancreas) to be digested.

If you've reversed it before, though, you are a whole step ahead of me; I'm only some way toward reversing mine.

thanks
I’m glad I’m not the only one confused one nurse told me the pancrease was panicking and producing too much insulin if I didn’t eat regularly - unsure if true (I know a pancreas cant panic but got the jist)
Flip side of if well controlled and when reversed is I get told I am not diabetic or not diabetic enough
will see what the next HBA1C brings back
I have been randomly checking myself and doesn't look good
It's way higher when I'm hours after eating it takes me a good 5 to 12 hours from my level to come down after eating but rarely below 6/7
But also, I do not eat for 12 to 16 hours and sugars are high go Dow a bit when I eat but shoot back up and stay high for ages after second meal
I bought a diabetic cook book so will give it a go

I had a rescue tablet prescribed for if levels went too high when on injections that cause spike in glucose (maybe that helped lower HBA1C)
The diabetic team refused my GP referral saying still not high enough for actual intervention ‍
Why not help us nip it in bud more
I honestly don’t understand as I feel that I don’t eat anything different maybe I was being a bit more active when well controlled and went into remission as I was on a trial where I stood between adverts on telly instead of sitting, did chair exercises etc and had a step counter - need to go back to that but seriously just little changes but I guess any exercise is better than none
We had weekly video calls and I feel I need that level of support/intervention I am not good as self motivation and staying on track
I know I’m responsible for myself and an adult but I’m ditzy and forgetful and I’m often bed bound ‍