1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Aerobic base training

Discussion in 'Fitness, Exercise and Sport' started by zicksi101, Oct 9, 2014.

  1. ElyDave

    ElyDave Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    2,018
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Well done, you're getting there. Keep it like that adn then watch the pace slowly increase for the same HR, it's amazing to see.

    With me I often see a step change like last week where I've suddenly gone from about 5:15-5:30/km to suddely drop to 4:50-5:00/km at the same HR. Loving the ability of the pump to reduce the basal for a couple of hours and avoid the need to taken on extra carbs.
     
  2. ElyDave

    ElyDave Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    2,018
    Trophy Points:
    178
    A nice 40mile/64km on the bike today

    http://connect.garmin.com/activity/634021775
    Ave HR of 144, at 30km/h.

    Temp basal for 1 hr before and 1 hr after. BG not too bad. Slightly reduced breakfast basal, went up to 7.7, then 6.3 pre ride.

    During ride, checking every 45mins (I normally start eating at around 30 mins, but experimented today to see what woudl happen)
    45min - 3.0 - 20g carbs immediate
    90min - 6.1 - 56 g carbs drunk between here and the end
    130min (finish) - 5.6. 25g carbs recovery, no bolus
    +30min - 7.9, lunch of omlette with cheese and sausages.
    +90min - 4.6
    +150min - 4.6
     
  3. ElyDave

    ElyDave Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    2,018
    Trophy Points:
    178
  4. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    I said I'd update the thread a few months down the line on progress, so I will.

    Bit of an anti-climax I'm afraid, didn't quite work in my case in terms of improving pace. Despite going out fasted, being properly hydrated, low carbing and controlling BGs, MAF test time on the treadmill has actually regressed from 11:06 min/mile to 13:23 min/mile over the last 2 months.

    In my case, I think the 180-age thing is genuinely too slow. Everyone says that of course, but I exceed that HR just by walking steadily uphill.

    No regrets about trying it though, training slow does work, and definitely helps manage BGs better which is the most important point.
     
  5. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Time for plan B, then.

    Use recent race times and pop into the McMillan calculator to work out what easy training pace should be. Hopefully HR will drop for the same pace.
     
  6. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Not quite Maffetone, but useful for runners where training down a high HR is a chicken and egg problem. The advice is on page 2:

    http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=134124&page=0

    So I'll try 5k pace + 3 mins/mile. At 10:30 min/mile in my case, in relative terms, it's still a lot slower than I was training before, but not so slow that I'd need to stop running altogether.
     
  7. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    So the 10:30 min/miles seems to work too from a BGs point of view, for a 4.5 mile run:

    pre - 7.5
    post - 8.0

    20g carbs during. The less said about HR the better, but was able to talk comfortably and could have went further.

    Starting out fasted before runs is making starting on a good BG possible without hypo'ing on the run, that's been the real difference so far.
     
  8. ElyDave

    ElyDave Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    2,018
    Trophy Points:
    178
    • Like Like x 2
  9. bellabella

    bellabella Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    187
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Hi all. Forgive me if this suggestion is ludicrous, but I'm very new to exercising with t1d ( and with t1d in general), but if you're bg's were approaching the 4's at a certain HR, could you increase the speed for a few minutes to induce a liver dump, and then go back to the original HR to go back to using up the glucose at a steadier rate?
     
  10. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Hi bellabella. Including a short sprint is actually an option, yes, but personally I prefer to just take on fast acting carbs if bg is starting to go low, because the liver dump needs to be replenished later anyway.

    So what you would likely see is an initially increasing bg after a short maximal sprint, but it will probably drop later.

    However, it's difficult to say for sure, because different people respond to exercise differently, so it's really a case of testing lots and finding what works best for you.

    Runsweet is a decent resource to have a look at when starting out. You may find this useful: http://www.runsweet.com/AvoidingHypos.html
     
    • Like Like x 4
  11. ElyDave

    ElyDave Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    2,018
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Agree with Zicksi, that might be OK if close to home, but not a long term solution.

    Take a look at that blog I mention and you'll see the rapid drop after the exercise as the elevated BG moves to the muscles to replenish those and then back into the liver.
     
  12. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Finally some progress!

    Last time I posted I was doing the 10:30 min/miles at an average HR of 170. Now down to 160 HR for the same pace.

    Still work to do to get that HR down to Maffetone territory, but moving in the right direction.

    So that probably sounds like back to where I was when I started the thread haha! But I consider it progress from where I was in January. I had to abstain from exercise for 6 weeks due to costochondritis before the new year. so it's no wonder the MAF test regressed in hindsight.
     
  13. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Right, down to 153 HR @ 9:45 min/mi pace. That'll be the HR zone Maffetone suggests.

    Nearly at the end the training block now before a few 10k's, but I sense it's more of a starting point than a conclusion.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. KarenG

    KarenG Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    52
    Likes Received:
    26
    Trophy Points:
    58
    Just to say that this has been an entirely fascinating thread! I've learnt a lot. Thank you.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  15. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,478
    Likes Received:
    13,151
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I've just gone through this post and a lot of the detail is probably beyond me at the moment. I'm a T2 and noticed @ElyDave and @zicksi101 are both T1's. Would you say there is a difference between the two as to how to manage BG responses to exercise? I do a lot of walking and am thinking of increasing the intensity of my exercise again.... as I gave up 5 a side sometime ago.
    Cheers
    Hj
     
  16. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Hi hankjam, I'm honestly not sure what the advice is for type 2's regarding high intensity, anaerobic exercise.

    However, as a general rule of thumb:
    Anaerobic = BG up
    Aerobic = BG drop

    I'm type 1 so find that anaerobic exercise (eventually) increases my BG when I don't have insulin on board, that's because my body produces no insulin in response to this type of exercise, but I'm not sure what happens in the type 2 case.

    Having said that the split between aerobic/anaerobic exercise isn't always that clear cut - I can occasionally be straddling the threshold between aerobic and anaerobic during a harder run, so in that case can expect both drops and increases in BG!

    Aerobic exercise is more predictable - BG drops, end of story.

    Perhaps worth widening the net by asking other type 2's in a new thread?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. ElyDave

    ElyDave Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    2,018
    Trophy Points:
    178
    I would have thought with type 2 with pancretic fucntion aerobic should not be an issue.

    Rememember a T1 suffers significant, rapid BG drop because of the circulating insulin. With a fucntioning pancreas what shoudl happen is that you have less circulating insulin as you release it to order, so to speak, which means that when you exercise your pancreas stops producing insulin in response to an initial BG drop and the kicking in of other transport mechanisms.

    With less efficient usage of insulin, I could hypothesise that a T2 may have more circulating insulin adn therefore have a bigger initial drop, but I don't know how big. Given high enough exercise duration, >45min-1hr, it should be easy for a T2 to really get into the zone where fat becomes the predominant fuel source without the need to top up with carbs too much.

    Anaerobic, with a reduced insulin sensitivity, there may be a similar reaction to a T1 with a post exercise spike, but that shoudl eventually resolve itself as the pancreas responds.

    That's just my ramblings whilst trying to apply logic and the biochemistry as I understand it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,478
    Likes Received:
    13,151
    Trophy Points:
    198
    No, it sounds useful to me. Thanks for your response. Hj
     
  19. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    113
    Likes Received:
    92
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Back from the first 10k race and, given that it was a race (so some adrenaliine involved), the BGs were pretty good:

    Starting BG - 9.2
    Finishing BG - 8.0

    Performance was good too, nearly a minute off 10k PB time and even managed to dip under 50 minutes for the first time. :)

    Just want to say thanks again @ElyDave for taking the time to give some advice on this thread, it is very much appreciated, reassuring to know there are helpful people like yourself around on these forums.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  20. ElyDave

    ElyDave Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,086
    Likes Received:
    2,018
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Ta, glad to help out.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook