• Guest - w'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Am I an oddball?

Hi @Gary1205,

As @azure eloquently put it "one size doesn't fit all." The way we manage our diabetes is very subjective. What works well for one person will be dire for another. Like you, I can tolerate carbs better than some. I merely adjust the portion size of what I'm eating to ensure I'm happy with the numbers my meter shows me. And when it's a new carby food, I thoroughly check postprandial. I'm a great believer that managing this disease is not purely a physical act. The emotional impact of this disease needs to be considered. That's why I no longer lchf. It made me miserable & I just couldn't carry on. So, I found the right way FOR ME. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan of lchf...it works fantastically well for many diabetics. And after being diagnosed, I followed it to help me regain control of my very high BG levels. The more weight I lost, the better my insulin resistance became & so I had the ability to widen my diet. But boy, sometimes expressing the view that you follow anything other than lchf can get some very aggressive posts from a vocal minority of forum members. The same members who would blow a gasket if you rammed YOUR opinion down their throats. The same members who take a passive/aggressive stance & basically impose their opinion over yours, making sure that you know your dietary style is wrong, you're not correctly informed, you're not educated...even though you're widely read on diabetes self management, and that you're gonna regret doing it someday. Aargh!! How arrogant is that for goodness sake.

I would NEVER knock lchf, because It works. But I stand by my right to express my views and challenge the members who "cyber bully" other members because they choose to follow a different route. We should all be supporting each other through this tricky, unpleasant disease AND respecting how we do so. It's ok to give out information to newbies about lchf & the benefits many diabetics get from following it. But giving balanced information & in a non-bullying/aggressive way shouldn't even need to be hilighted.

So Gary, well done on your self management, weight loss & HBa1c. Long may it be so. Best wishes.

AJ. X

 
Indeed @Alisonjane10 I've been accused of not being diabetic (I wish!) to explain my structured but relaxed diet and attitude to diabetes. I've been moderated out of discussions for standing my ground. I did the Atkins diet many many years ago.. I lost weight, but I became obsessed about it, and I see the same here. But it does work a treat if you decide it's for you!

I also see you've lost 24.5Kgs.. I'm a few kilos behind.. but my Suitcase coming back from Florida weighed 24.5 kilos... nicely done!! I had to pay a Mexican to carry that much!!
 
Well said AJ10. I still follow LCHF as it suits me and Im enjoying what I eat but who knows in the future I may end up taking a different approach. To me it is definately a case of "to each their own".
 
Once again a big thank you to all. It has made me realise that this is a very individual thing and there isn't a single answer to the control which I am sure we all strive for and I am not as odd as some were beginning to make me feel and far from unique.

In my case it would appear that the weight loss is quite likely a contributory factor with my control and I have achieved this through a balanced diet with an eye on portion size rather than cutting out carbs. Calorie intake seems to have been my major factor, I am currently averaging about 1500 a day and losing roughly 2lbs a week. I am lucky in my opinion to have gone an Xpert course very soon after my diagnosis and found the sessions on calories, carbs and in particular GI very informative, know what to eat that makes me feel fuller so I don't snack like I used to pre diagnosis. As you will have already read I still seem to be okay with some things that clearly others are not, so it does seem to be a case that it is our own diabetes and we have got to find the best way to manage it ourselves and what is right for one is clearly not for another. That meter does seem to be the best and most helpful device as far as I am concerned in seeing what affects us as an individual, obvious example being how some seem to get spikes by Weetabix yet I and some others are not. It maybe the Accountant in me and maybe extreme but I keep a spreadsheet recording what I've eaten calorie and carb content and before and after readings so that is how I know that I've actually been slightly lower some days after that particular cereal and never to date gone up more than one and established any patterns for all foods. Recording my weekly weight as well and personally find it encouraging as it comes off and see what it was all those weeks ago and what it is each week. It's another thing that works for me anyway.

I have my own reasons for wanting to get it right and keep as well as I can now I have diabetes. My late father was aT1 from the age of 18 and was taken from us too early at the age of 58 having spent the last two years of his life on dialysis. He had a leg amputated and other diabetes related complications so I have seen first hand what can happen if I do not get things right. He was my hero and wanted to be like him in so many ways but diabetes was not one of them, but at least his legacy has meant that I am very focused on managing my condition as best I can. Looks as though I am getting my management right for me at the moment but I have no intention of becoming complacent as barring a cure I have this for the rest of my days and if I need to change my strategy I will do so.

I must be honest insofar as I was starting to wonder if I had done the right thing joining this forum given that I was beginning to feel like an oddball, but now I know that I am in the right place having learned that I am not unique in my approach and we have to help each other achieve what is right for each individual in the management and control of our own diabetes which is clearly not going to be the same for all. Yes it is certainly a (fill in the blank with your own choice of word) this diabetes lark. Would be far simpler if there was one rule for all, but there isn't so guess we have to make the best of the hand we have been dealt by finding out what works best for ourselves.

Thanks once again to all of you and hope you all find your own pathway to success in the way I currently feel I have mine. Ironically feel in some ways diabetes has turned out to be a blessing in disguise now I have found out how to lose weight and keep it off.

Gary
 

By fasting for 2 days a week you are cutting carbs too surely? I have tried this as well and have similar results as you. I have always thought that was because my liver had taken the excess sugar from my bloodstream, which it will do temporarily. It can't do this forever though because it will result in fatty liver - which is linked with insulin resistance.

I totally agree that weight loss is the best way to reduce insulin resistance. If only someone had told me how to do this I would never have become diabetic.

Some of us never bothered about our weight before we were diagnosed so any kind of weight loss plan will probably work for those people. That is fine, but for those of us who were trying to lose weight for 15+ years before diagnosis and have tried everything else then LCHF often is the only plan that works. I believe this plan would help nearly everyone to lose weight and control their BGs. Yes, often another plan will work too.

I have a friend who was diagnosed T2 several years ago. All he did was to stop drinking beer and have water instead. His BG's are normal and he is no longer treated as a diabetic. OK so that's all he had to do. I am pretty sure that low carbing would have helped too, it just wasn't necessary. I was already drinking mostly water and tea when I was diagnosed so that advice wouldn't have helped me at all.

To illustrate what I mean further I will tell you an example of something I taught my children when they were little. When crossing a road I taught them to press the button and wait for the green man. I then said to always look both ways to make sure the cars are actually stopping for you. It shouldn't have been necessary to tell them that, but I am glad I did. Twice when they were aged 10 and 7 they walked slightly ahead of me and looked aghast as a car went through the red light. If they had been on the crossing no amount of 'it was the driver's fault' would have put their broken bodies back together again.

That's why I tend to point newbies towards LCHF at first, to be cautious and help them to get their BG's under control as soon as possible. What they do after that is up to them and their meter. If all they have to do is switch to drinking water, then great, they will soon find this out by using their meter. They get the mainstream advice from their doctors, if someone comes here they are asking for something different and we are often a last resort. If it turns out that they can relax the rules after getting their BGs under control and their HbA1cs back to a normal level then that's great! Not everyone can though. It's those people I want to help the most.
 
@Gary1205 No you are not an oddball at all! You are simply fortunate to be able to enjoy a wider range of foods than some of us. That's what I suggest you do - enjoy it.

Congrats again on the weight loss and your HbA1c returning to pre-diabetic levels.
 
Just curious if you only test 2 hours after meals as you've only given the two hour readings. I'm lucky to have caught it at the pre-diabetes stage and yes I am finding a switch to lchf diet has worked wonders for me and the more I read about the physiology of the body and this disease the more it makes sense to me. I was within the healthy BMI at diagnosis and doctor said 'oh but you don't have any fat to lose'. Not true as I've lost 6Kg already in 3 weeks and intend to lose at least 5 more. I couldn't do the fasting route as I don't have the self-discipline to not eat if I'm hungry - although on the lchf diet there are several days when I've just not felt hungry so haven't eaten much. This I believe is due to the high(er) fats keeping me feeling full. On previous (normal) carby diet I'd get gnawing hunger pains and very irritable if I didn't have food regularly and snacks too, so low carbing has not only helped me lose weight but improved my general moods and life.
I was someone who never thought i'd be able to give up starchy carbs as i love bread and pastries and chips and biscuits. However the idea that carbs are addictive does seem to have some truth (for me at least) as having gone virtually cold turkey for two weeks after diagnosis (due mostly to major food confusion over the NHS advice vs several other ideas i'd read) and then finding this site and finding the lchf lifestyle I find I hardly miss them.
If I eat anything carby I test at one hour and at two hours. I often find that at one hour carbs give me a massive spike 10's and 11's that are back to near normal at two hours. My understanding is that my primary insulin response is faulty but the secondary release is still working well enough to mop up the remaining sugars from the carbs. So my reason for cutting carbs is to get rid of those spikes at one hour since they are presumably what was causing my fasting BGs to creep upwards. If I'd only tested at two hours after meals I'd never have noticed the detrimental effect the carbs were having and would have believed i didn't have a problem with them. Wholemeal bread for example is the worst offender for me and anything with wheat in it, though since losing some weight I can now tolerate small amounts of even wheaty carbs.
I don't think people on here are meaning to push lchf aggressively but most are just so thrilled to find a way to control their diabetes they are keen to pass on this to every newbie since for the vast majority it is a highly successful and becoming much more scientifically accepted way of avoiding all the horrible complications of the disease.
Congratulations on getting yours under control and indeed everyone is different because the causes of their diabetes can be very different and the stage at which they are diagnosed can greatly affect how their body processes carbs and their level of insulin resistance or lack or not of insulin production.
 
Now I only test at 2 hours. But I've been mote thorough in the past. My bs spikes at an hour but not as much as yours. As does the bs of lots of non diabetic people. My only concern at meal time is 2hrs. Unless I eat pasta then I keep an eye out until bs gets under 6. Which can be a while.

I also find no correlation between my evening meal and morning bs. Although losing weight had lowered the average from 5.7 to 5
 
mikej1973 said:
I also find no correlation between my evening meal and morning bs. Although losing weight had lowered the average from 5.7 to 5
Click to expand...

I find the same - unless I drink more than one glass of red wine with evening meal which tends to lower the morning after BG - but i don't recommend that as a way of getting BG down
I'm finding exercise of a 15-20 min walk immediately post eating to be most effective way for me to lower any spikes and assume this to be because it allows any glucose to be used straight away and my poor primary insulin response is not then a problem. Thank goodness for BG meters. I find it crazy NHS is so panicked about the amount of new diabetics and yet are still dissuading even motivated Type 2'ers from having them which would defintely save NHS money in the long run. I fund my own and feel lucky I can afford to do that.

Interestingly I tested non-diabetic daughter's BG after she'd eaten a carb heavy meal and a coke and it spiked to 10 at an hour (I haven't seen 10's for weeks now). Although her fasting BG was 4.8 I do wonder if she has inherited the faulty gene so will be trying to make her cut down on the carbs. My mother is a slim Type 2 but not diagnosed til her 70's and luckily hasn't had any of the complications from diabetes. She had a fasting BG of 8.0 on diagnoses so it had presumably been creeping up on her for while. An aunt however was not so lucky. Sorry I am digressing.
 
Hi seadragon, I note that in the advice Daisy gives to all newcomers, she states that -
"A test 2 hours after the meal gives a good idea of how your body has reacted to the meal."
Forgive me if I am interpreting you wrong but the way I read your initial response you seem to be implying that is not the case and the advice being given out to newcomers is therefore incorrect and in your opinion a different timescale is more appropriate to judge effects.
I am pleased for you that you have found what for you is the right method of control and glad that you seem pleased for me with what I think is right and working for me, even though my control is not the same as yours. I hope everyone finds what is right for them and what they are comfortable and is sustainable for them with, whatever method of control that they use.
 

It's an interesting digression though. I think your daughter is pretty normal. At least from a bs perspective!
 

I find, personally, that is more useful to test at 1 hour and 2 hours. (and if necessary to keep going after that). The reason being that everyone will spike after a meal, even non-diabetics. The timing of the peak varies considerably depending how long you took to eat the whole meal, and what combination of foods were in the meal, but is normally between an hour and 90 minutes after first bite. The difference between non-diabetics and diabetics is that by approximately 2 to 2.5 hours non-diabetics are generally back to where they started. Diabetics probably aren't. The advice to test at just 2 hours is simply a general guideline. It isn't set in stone.

My non-diabetic husband runs in the 4's all the time except after meals. He eats a lot of carbs and always has a pudding. He can spike up to double figures from a start of, say, 4.5. But he is back to normal after 2 to 2.5 hours.
 

I agree with the comments in your post @Gary1205. It doesn't half get weary when sometimes you're treat like an uneducated halfwit. Thank goodness Daisy1 DOES send the basic welcome pack to Newbies. It's invaluable & It encourages you to explore your options for self managing your Diabetes. There will always be some members who require more support & information than others...especially upon diagnosis or when new to the forum. And then there's the members who've found the way forward for them. They've done the necessary testing, worked out what they can eat & what portion size doesn't cause problems with their BG. When I've introduced a "new" food, I test every 20 minutes for the first 2 hours, then every 30 minutes for a further 2 hours. I'm ALWAYS back down to my preprandial BG level well within the 4 hours, usually within 2 hours to be honest. Also, i rarely spike more than 2mmols & if I do I either eliminate that food from my diet completely or reduce the portion size and carry out the testing protocol from scratch again. It works for me.

For example, my BG this morning was 5.1 fasting at 7am. I had breakfast of a bacon roll. Then an hour later took my Mam to my local Costa, where I had a regular skinny latte with a piece of shortbread. My BG rose to 6.4, dropped back to low 5's within an hour (less than 2 hours after eating,) and has now settled at 4.8mmols. I'm happy with that. As long as I have tight control of my BG, & I continue to lose weight, then I'll carry on as I am. It's working & the varied diet makes me happy. However, like you, should I ever lose that tight control, I'll review the way I manage my diabetes and make the necessary adaptions. As an intelligent person, I'm quite able to make decisions about my own health. I'm sure the majority of others on this forum are able to make those decision too. I reiterate..."one size doesn't fit all." Best wishes & good health everyone. X

 

Hi Gary
Daisy's post is perfectly correct in that the 2 hour test does give a good idea of your bodies reaction to a meal but if like me you find that at two hours BG is usually back to normal then something else is probably going on (if fasting bloods are elevated). In my case testing an hour after shows that carbs were giving me very high spikes - e.g. half a small piece of wholemeal toast and I'd get a reading over 11 at 1 hour. Considerable research and reading several good books on the subject like blood sugar 101 and The Diabetes Solution and Dr Cavans book gave me a much clearer idea of the mechanisms and why the spikes were causing me a problem due it would appear to a poor first phase insulin response. I got this info from books recommended by people on this forum and sadly no info whatsoever from my GP (who is also the Diabetic Clinic doctor) whose response to my 'Pre-diabetes' was to suggest statins and metformin straight away and the NHS EatWell diet which for a diabetic appears to be anything but eating well especially since it would have had me eating way more carbs than I did before. Do they prescribe alcohol for alcoholics? I don't think so, so I wonder why they persist in prescribing carbs for carboholics (which is what I considered myself to be - addicted to something that wasn't doing me any good because my body wasn't processing it normally).

Other people will have diabetes for different reasons. Type 2 seems to be a catch-all term but it could be that their body isn't producing enough insulin because of Beta cell death or that they are insulin resistant due to visceral fat or that they have a poor first phase response (which could be related to both previous reasons) etc etc. This I assume is why every person is different in how they respond to diet as well. Unfortunately NHS thinks all diabetics are the same and also seems rather slow to catch up with the latest scientific news and also still persists in the low fat mantra (and look where that has got the population at large with so much obesity possibly due to the fact that when manufacturers take out the fat they put in more sugar instead to make it palatable). Finding this forum was great in that it gave me confidence to eat a low(er) carb, high(er) fat diet and showed me a lifestyle i could happily maintain as I never feel hungry and overall health seems much better. I will be trying to get a full lipids panel done after 3-6 months to see how the 'lifestyle' , which includes a lot more 'activity' (in that I try to walk 25 minutes at least twice a day in addition to other sports I was doing but not daily) has affected them. Should there be any decline in lipids I might have to tweak the diet but I'm expecting to see an improvement. Sorry I have written an essay again!
 

That was very interesting @seadragon. And yes, I agree that the NHS diabetic service isn't always up to the job. I waited over 4 weeks after being diagnosed before getting to see a DSN. Had it not been for the people on this forum who generously gave their time & experience during that waiting period, I do believe I may very well have become extremely ill. I do hope that your lipid profile is where you hope it will be when you get tested. Good luck & best wishes. X
 
Thanks Bluetit 1802, you have actually made me realise i am doing it right (for me) testing before and two hours later. If as you say both diabetics and non diabetics spike what is the point. As you say the non diabetic returns to normal and us diabetics don't as quickly, I think that perfectly expains why they (Daisy and the guidelines) are advising that we ensure our levels are 8.5 or lower(preferably lower obviously) 2 hours later knowing that we are not going back to previous levels as a non diabetic would.
As I say thanks for your response it has helped me confirm that I should carry on the way I am and it would be unneccessary for me at any rate to test earlier.
 
Thanks and glad you enjoyed the essay! I tend to want to know everything about anything I am involved with hence reading an awful lot of books on diabetes and trawling research papers once I'd decided I didn't want to go down the medication route. Also learning that the GPs get paid to prescribe statins and have registered diabetics on their books made me a little wary of the motives involved in GP advice! This forum helped so much in making sense of my research and finding me a lifestyle that works for me.
 
zand said:
fat doesn't make me fat. Carbs do.
Click to expand...


I totally disagree with that statement zand its my opinion that it is too many calories that causes weight gain and it matters not where those calories come from.

Calorific facts:
Carbs per gram = 4 calories
Protein per gram = 4 calories
Fat per gram = 9 calories

I believe my opinion is shared by dieticians, Nutritionists, cardiologists, vascular surgeons, GP's, in fact every professional working within the medical profession, but of course everyone is entitled to their our own opinion.
 
OK so have a look at this:-

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/my-5-day-dairy-fat-fast.81433/

The problem with your logic is that it is based on old science. Not all calories are equal. This is my own opinion because I have seen it work for me, as have others. I cannot tell anyone that fat makes you fat when I know it doesn't. It's the carbs and/or the combination of fat and carbs. Either way, cut the carbs and weight loss becomes easier.
 
@Gary1205
Congratulations.

I though a long time about joining as well, as I took the route of losing weight, but simply eating less, and watching what I eat.
To be fair though, my Mediterranean diet now is nothing like the old pie and chips, so that works well.

But others on here aren't doing the LCHF either, (although, quite often, any diet will be claimed as 'LC' simply by definition that you eat less than you used to, or you dropped the tea and 4 sugars )

I am also not paranoid over little spikes, so long as I'm below the figure I'm happy with, I don't mind the rise, it does seem that there is some pressure to have a fasting of 4, and never rise above the 5's at times, so I tend to ignore that as well.

Stick to what works for you, test, and kick back and enjoy your own food, otherwise you'll find diabetes has taken over your life by the back door!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn More.…