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and now statins

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by lambcolin, Oct 23, 2017.

  1. lambcolin

    lambcolin Type 2 · Member

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    just returned from my annual review with the specialist nurse. Low carbing has reduced my glucose levels and my plasma glucose is now at 9.4mmol/L and my daily measurements first thing in the morning is usually about 6.5 mmol/L. Now they're saying that my cholesterol is too high and that i should begin taking a statin..something that i do not want to do.I have a total cholesterol level of 5.6 a HDL of 1.49 and triglycerides of 4.63. I am so confused over what is good or bad cholesterol because under the low carb high fat diet that i have been using i am eating all the things that the nhs recommends that i do not eat.I have no weight problems i am fit and healthy and do not want to start taking any medicine if i can avoid it.......any advice?
     
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  2. Art Of Flowers

    Art Of Flowers I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    They asked me to take statins. I refused. They have many side effects and have no benefit unless you have actually had a heart attack.
     
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  3. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    Try entering your levels in this calculator, which isn't perfect but may give you a bit of an idea where you stand
    http://www.hughcalc.org/chol-si.php

    Then you need to look round the forum and use the search box for threads on this very subject.

    Are you eating plenty of Omega 3 foods, particularly oily fish such as salmon/mackerel/sardines, flaxseeds, nuts and so on?
     
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  4. ziggy_w

    ziggy_w Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @lambcolin

    Did you fast before your blood test? Have you lost a lot of weight recently? Both can impact your cholesterol numbers.

    Also, as @Art Of Flowers has already mentioned -- the decision whether to take statins or not is ultimately yours.
     
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    #4 ziggy_w, Oct 23, 2017 at 2:35 PM
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
  5. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

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    Hi,
    There appears to be something wrong with your figures, the trig's do not seem credible with your HDL and total cholesterol figures? regards D
     
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  6. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    I calculate his LDL would have to be about 2.0 for that total.
     
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  7. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    => " triglycerides of 4.63"

    This is VERY high, I think you should ask for the test to be repeated and do it as a fasting test. I assume you have had a liver function test, what were the results like?

    Then look very carefully at what you eat and drink.
     
  8. LezLezLez

    LezLezLez Type 2 · Member

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    Hi, I draw your attention to an article in today's "The Times" which reports about a possible newly discovered side effect of taking regular statins - a possible increased probability of getting diabetes T2. They report information stated to be found in the current British Journal of General Practice. Also BMJ Open Diabetes Research & Care.
     
  9. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Legend

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    This is well known, and there is a warning on the instruction leaflet with the packets that they can cause raised blood glucose.
     
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  10. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I got very high trig levels when I lost a heap of weight shortly after diagnosis and I in-acted those dreaded 'lifestyle changes' - that is where all the fat stores go - into your bloodstream, and hence the high trig levels. Mine were so high they couldn't measure my LDL. But yes, it stabilises (to a new healthy level!) once the body has dealt with the changing fat stores, rather quickly. By the time of the next blood lipid test a month later at any rate.

    I personally have chosen to be statin free, even with quite high cholesterol levels. (I have very good HDL and trig levels though, so my risk, which can be rather easily calculated online, for MIs and CVDs (what we are most likely to die to early of) isn't too bad - 4% chance of having a heart attack (MI) in the next five years, and 11% chance of having a CVD event in the next five years. Not sure how these risk factor things work out psychologically! But I found it helpful when researching the topic to have it laid out so. (Rather than just reading about the greatly elevated risks for such with T2D.) To statin or not to statin is a very personal decision, for sure.

    I did this CVD calculating thing when an aunt of mine got freaked out at the chances she had of getting a stroke, when she had a suspected mini stroke when she was staying with me, and spoke with awe to me about how much diabetes came up as a huge risk factor when she researched it online (you know - 'oh dear - you are going to die soon, did you know that? You ought to be taking pills' sort of thing.) I did not find her freaking out about getting a stroke very helpful without really looking at the stats in my own case. Seeing 11% felt better than a 50-100% would have :). It's all relative? Helped keep it in perspective for me.
     
  11. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I expect the much larger risk is that people and their GP think they can ignore diet due to the "magic" statins....
     
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  12. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    from a fairly conservative 'peoplespharmacy.com'

    "Blood Sugar and Statins:

    There is general agreement that statin therapy increases the risk of developing diabetes (Current Atherosclerosis Reports, Jan. 2015). Research has shown that there is a 10 to 12 percent increased incidence of new-onset type 2 diabetes in statin takers.

    The higher the dose and the more potent the statin the greater the risk. Investigators believe that statins “impair beta-cell function [in the pancreas] and decrease insulin sensitivity” (Nature Reviews. Endocrinology, online, Dec. 15, 2015).

    What remains controversial, however, is whether people with diagnosed diabetes have a harder time controlling their blood sugar levels while taking statins. Many experts are convinced that there is no problem.

    Most diabetes experts and cardiologists insist that the benefits of statins far outweigh the risks for people with prediabetes or a diabetes diagnosis. They state that should a patient develop type 2 diabetes after statin treatment they should continue on the statin and start drug treatment for their new-onset diabetes."

    I personally find that last paragraph outrageous! Considering the actual science based evidence to the contrary. But this is why I chose a conservative website to quote.
     
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  13. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I believe that 'Most diabetes experts and cardiologists' thought low fat high carb diet was the way to go twenty years ago. It appears that opinions are changing.
    I was told that I should be on statins as my TC was raised (5.2). No mention or explanation of relative levels was made and I have to confess that, 5 weeks on, my statin prescription still sits in the chemist awaiting collection.
    I have no idea where I'll end up at my next blood screening late in November, either HbA1c or cholesterol, but from what I've read and bearing in mind that I don't have any other medical condition, I've decided to take nothing for the time being.
    To be honest, I find things pretty difficult to assimilate because medical opinion is so polarized, particularly concerning cholesterol. I saw a video recently (but I can't find it now) that said it's not even necessarily high LDL that is the problem as there are different types of LDL including large and small. It's the small LDL that can cause the problems in artery walls - but that wouldn't happen if the arteries hadn't been inflamed by high glucose and insulin. So, we're back to glucose. Blimey.
    Meanwhile I'll stick with the bacon and eggs and see what happens - trusting those on here with far more experience than me.
     
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  14. Robbity

    Robbity Type 2 · Expert

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    This is not actually new information (but I'm not about to pay £1 for the privilege of reading the Times report online so I can't comment on it!). I've certainly been aware of their probable implication in causing diabetes since I was diagnosed in 2013, and the fact that they're know to raise glucose levels was the main reason I finally refused to take them any longer, and almost immediately saw my levels drop.

    Robbity
     
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  15. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Do statins increase insulin resistance, or is the possible increased risk of Type2 from taking statins only in people who already have a high level of insulin resistance?

    It could be said that if statins decreasing insulin production in someone who has far more insulin in their blood then is normal is of benefit....
     
  16. Daphne917

    Daphne917 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    My hba1c went from 48 to 54 after I started taking statins. Since I stopped taking them my hba1c has reduced to 36. I have the ‘statin’ talk with my DN at every review but I politely refuse the offer!
     
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  17. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    One of the best effects of statins is they decrease inflammation. I believed that they did not know how this happens (or it may very well be I just didn't understand the explanation.Very likely!)

    @ringi - are you suggesting the idea that statins decrease insulin production, or is that a fact? If so, a link or 2 would be fabulous.

    I have been able to track my insulin production since requesting C-peptide tests over time, and finally I got tracked test results for three years, so I didn't have to interpret them myself. For IR T2D - it is a fabulous thing to know for sure. And, according to some medical writers - more interesting for us re protecting us from CVDs, kidney disease, some cancers - than knowing and lowering our cholesterol levels. (There is lots of info online about insulin being a key culprit, and not cholesterol levels, in CVDs and MIs etc. Which is what this subject is all about - protecting us as much as we can from the double and triple fold incidence of dying too early from these things that diabetics have.)
     
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  18. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    This is not a complete answer to your problem, but if as you say you are fit and healthy perhaps you could increase the amount and/or intensity of exercise you take. This would likely raise your HDL (the good cholesterol).
     
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  19. ringi

    ringi Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It is not well understood what is going but a decrease in inflammation is clearly a possibility.

    I recall reading it somewhere as being the reason for the very small increase in the risk of Type2 for people taking statins.
     
  20. bluejeans98

    bluejeans98 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    At my last review my doctor put me on statins. Artovastatin. Low dose. Since going on them my muscle pain is terrible. My joints in my hands and feet feel like I've been hit with a sledge hammer, My arms are weak as are my legs when walking. I am also suffering from no sleep, and fuzzy brain. I couldn't even remember how to use my mobile to make a call. I had tests done for low testosterone etc. All my bloods came back fine, liver function the works. I have to go from a head scan tonight at the hospital...It seems to me that all this started when I was put on statins. Yes my feed get sore from time to time and i take ALA for that. Now on statins it's not working and my blood sugars are creeping up....I think I'm going to stop taking them. What's the point of having a so called extended life if that life is a half life in daily pain with no sleep and forgetting things.
     
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