Another report of a fudged trial and long term denial

[LittleGreyCat]

http://healthinsightuk.org/2016/09/...fraction-as-effective-as-experts-claim-it-is/

This has striking similarities to the ongoing statins debate.

Brief summary; study published, NICE guidelines (and guidelines in other countries) set using the results.
Authors refuse to release study data for independent analysis because "confidentiality".
Long campaign with much denigration of the campaigners, but a bed-ridden Australian finally succeeded with a Freedom of Information request.
Initial analysis of the results, when released, do not agree with the original findings (surprise).
Supporters of the original findings still doing "nothing to see here".

It appears that in some cases science is not truly impartial.

TL;DR - don't trust any analysis when the author(s) won't release the results for independent analysis

 

[tim2000s]

I wonder whether an FOI request could be put forward for the Statin data that Professor Rogers won't release given the National Interest?

 

[Dillinger]

All professions are, by their nature, monopolies of information and technique.

The medical profession seems to be one of the worst in not accepting that their knowledge isn't magical or so refined that normal people couldn't possibly hope to understand it. That pomposity of 'doctor knows best' really needs to stop. How many times to do you read on here about HCPs responding to well thought out questions with a 'I suppose you've been to see Dr Google have you?' type patronising rubbish.

Trust is a one shot deal; once it's gone it's gone. I don't trust any doctor I see on any advice anymore since the appalling advice we all have been given on management of diabetes and the importance of statins. In both those cases they couldn't be more wrong. In future they can run the diagnostic tests; I'll decide what to do about the results.

 

[Brunneria]

Trust is a one shot deal; once it's gone it's gone. I don't trust any doctor I see on any advice anymore since the appalling advice we all have been given on management of diabetes and the importance of statins. In both those cases they couldn't be more wrong. In future they can run the diagnostic tests; I'll decide what to do about the results.

TOTAL agreement.

 

[MikeTurin]

Trust is a one shot deal; once it's gone it's gone. I don't trust any doctor I see on any advice anymore since the appalling advice we all have been given on management of diabetes and the importance of statins. In both those cases they couldn't be more wrong. In future they can run the diagnostic tests; I'll decide what to do about the results.

I think its a slippery slope, because mistrust on medical science and doctor will transform in trust with whacky witch doctors and their oddball therapies, normally made to suck up money to ill people and their parents. In some cases withdrawing insulin for a 16 year old girl with a Type I diabetes:

http://corrierefiorentino.corriere....icidio-colposo-aggravato--1703038464013.shtml

Or a 18 year old girl with leukaemia

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/16_...ia-6e1511c8-7009-11e6-acff-0ba0a2f56bad.shtml

Then, having to work with doctcors, it's sure that some aren't well prepared or are actually following their goals instead to try to cure the patients in the best ways. One must be informed on their disease and if doesn't trust a doctor, it's better to as a second advice to another doctor of course.

 

[dawnmc]

I think its a slippery slope, because mistrust on medical science and doctor will transform in trust with whacky witch doctors and their oddball therapies, normally made to suck up money to ill people and their parents. In some cases withdrawing insulin for a 16 year old girl with a Type I diabetes:

http://corrierefiorentino.corriere....icidio-colposo-aggravato--1703038464013.shtml

Or a 18 year old girl with leukaemia

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/16_...ia-6e1511c8-7009-11e6-acff-0ba0a2f56bad.shtml

Then, having to work with doctcors, it's sure that some aren't well prepared or are actually following their goals instead to try to cure the patients in the best ways. One must be informed on their disease and if doesn't trust a doctor, it's better to as a second advice to another doctor of course.

Cant read Italian.

 

[Dillinger]

I think its a slippery slope, because mistrust on medical science and doctor will transform in trust with whacky witch doctors and their oddball therapies, normally made to suck up money to ill people and their parents. In some cases withdrawing insulin for a 16 year old girl with a Type I diabetes:

http://corrierefiorentino.corriere....icidio-colposo-aggravato--1703038464013.shtml

Or a 18 year old girl with leukaemia

http://www.corriere.it/cronache/16_...ia-6e1511c8-7009-11e6-acff-0ba0a2f56bad.shtml

Then, having to work with doctcors, it's sure that some aren't well prepared or are actually following their goals instead to try to cure the patients in the best ways. One must be informed on their disease and if doesn't trust a doctor, it's better to as a second advice to another doctor of course.

I'm just expressing my view; I'm not suggesting people for a moment give up on their HCPs. I'm just very bored of listening to doctors who should be experts telling me to avoid saturated fats and how important it is to be on statins. Because here's the thing; the single best dietary intervention for diabetes is removing carbs not fat and cholesterol levels are irrelevant to CVD.

 

[Brunneria]

Cant read Italian.

Google translates anything nowadays.

 

[MikeTurin]

I'm just expressing my view; I'm not suggesting people for a moment give up on their HCPs. I'm just very bored of listening to doctors who should be experts telling me to avoid saturated fats and how important it is to be on statins. Because here's the thing; the single best dietary intervention for diabetes is removing carbs not fat and cholesterol levels are irrelevant to CVD.

Sorry, I've misunderstood.

But what I think that switching GP (or dentist, or cardiologist, or diabetologist) because one is not at ease for a better prepared MD it's different to abandon the mainstrem medicine for some whacky science.

The problem of fudged studies is another different beast, but seems to me that sooner or later the problem will solve itself. Anyway, as I've said in anothes message, a nuse once said to me thst it's better to cut away bread and potatoes if one has to lose weight and eat a lot of vegetables, and try to eat for supper a salad with fennels, savoy cabbage, salad, onions and season with olive oil and also eat a lot of fish and eggs. Seems to me is a died with fats proteins but low carbs...

 

[dawnmc]

Google translates anything nowadays.

Couldn't be bleeped.

 

[Lamont D]

Sorry, I've misunderstood.

But what I think that switching GP (or dentist, or cardiologist, or diabetologist) because one is not at ease for a better prepared MD it's different to abandon the mainstrem medicine for some whacky science.

The problem of fudged studies is another different beast, but seems to me that sooner or later the problem will solve itself. Anyway, as I've said in anothes message, a nuse once said to me thst it's better to cut away bread and potatoes if one has to lose weight and eat a lot of vegetables, and try to eat for supper a salad with fennels, savoy cabbage, salad, onions and season with olive oil and also eat a lot of fish and eggs. Seems to me is a died with fats proteins but low carbs...

My friend, you met a nurse that did know dietary advice!
There is nothing wrong with having the group of foods that is natural vegetables. Not the starchy ones! They should be the cornerstone of anyone's healthy diet.
For someone like me, who has to eat to be in control of his blood sugars not to be ill.
This is like a breath of fresh air!
I wish I had that nurse nearly two decades ago, because, just maybe, I wouldn't have had to go through my hypo hell.
Low carb, higher (saturated) fat. Does work!
And like me, will loose you weight!
5 stone and counting!

 

[zand]

But what I think that switching GP (or dentist, or cardiologist, or diabetologist) because one is not at ease for a better prepared MD it's different to abandon the mainstrem medicine for some whacky science.

...

Well the 'eat low fat and high carbs' advice that has been pushed for years was really wacky science - and that was mainstream medical advice.

 

[Daibell]

All professions are, by their nature, monopolies of information and technique.

The medical profession seems to be one of the worst in not accepting that their knowledge isn't magical or so refined that normal people couldn't possibly hope to understand it. That pomposity of 'doctor knows best' really needs to stop. How many times to do you read on here about HCPs responding to well thought out questions with a 'I suppose you've been to see Dr Google have you?' type patronising rubbish.

Trust is a one shot deal; once it's gone it's gone. I don't trust any doctor I see on any advice anymore since the appalling advice we all have been given on management of diabetes and the importance of statins. In both those cases they couldn't be more wrong. In future they can run the diagnostic tests; I'll decide what to do about the results.

I also agree.

 

[MikeTurin]

My friend, you met a nurse that did know dietary advice!

Someone says that nurses know better than doctors.
Ok anyway the dirologist I've metd said that was better for supper to abstain to eat bread, rice, potatoes or pasta, I've the diet sheet somewhere and substitute with meat, fish, cheese, eggs or beans. I suppose that the idea that "it's better to cut carbs" is known by some doctors, simply because it's really easy nowadays to overeat carbs.