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Anyone have a clue what's going on?

Discussion in 'Ask A Question' started by Mechmoth, Oct 21, 2018.

  1. Mechmoth

    Mechmoth · Newbie

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    Hello all,

    So first a little background.

    I'm 35 and not diagnosed with diabetes, however, ever since I was in my teens I've sufferd with terrible fatigue, sugar crashes, unexplained migraines and blurred vision that I think is linked with what I eat.

    After several normal fasting blood tests Ive been diagnosed withn anaemia and low blood pressure and this is what my fatigue has been put down to by health professionals.

    Over the years I've tried cutting out all sort of foods to find the link and it wasn't until I tried a low card diet that I because convinced that something funky was going on.

    To finally get to the point I have been monitoring my blood glucose levels with the Freestyle sensors and have found that I've been suffering hyper and hypos when I eat without knowing it, but it's not on a daily basis. I do seem to go above 8.5 mml/L after ever mean though.

    I've attached an example of a bad day and a usual day while using the Freestyle sensor.

    I'm going to book an appointment with the doctor this week, but I wanted to ask people if anyone has any clue as to what's going on or had a similar experience?

    More info:
    I eat as clean as possible (minimal bad carbs)
    I don't smoke or drink,
    I'm 5.9ft and 9.5 stone,
    Long term diagnosis of PCOS,
    I exercise a minute of 4 times a week... Running, Martial arts, gymnastics,
    Family does have type 1 and 2 history,
     

    Attached Files:

  2. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    What “good “ carbs do you eat? PCOS can be associated with insulin resistance so you may be struggling with even those carbs.

    Do you know your actual figures for the previous tests you’ve had. Being told normal doesn’t always mean they are (previous personal experience).

    Did you have b12 checked too?
     
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  3. Mechmoth

    Mechmoth · Newbie

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    So I stick away from anything refined and mostly Paleo but with dairy and some oats, beans... if I do on the odd occayuoc eat bread or rice is only wholegrain.

    In relation to the worst day graph, in the morning I had no added sugar granola and milk for breakfast. Chicken and vegetables (inc sweet potato) for lunch and similar in the evening but with fish and as it was the start of holiday, a non alcoholic cocktail, which is very rare.

    You've asked a very good question about my past results, which at the moment I don't have an answer for, but will add that to my list for the next visit. I'm aware I've had my b12 checker and nothing was flagged up.

    I've spoken to my gyne about the PCOS and he did agree that a low carb diet would be best, but I'm starting to run out of food to eat xD

    Really appreciate your input.
     
  4. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sugar free granola still has a lot of carbs, as do oats and to a lesser extent beans. A mocktail will probably have lots of fruit juice aka liquid sugar. Wholegrain releases carbs more slowly but they are still there. Most below ground veg are higher than above ground. Sweet potatoes still have an awful lot of carbs.

    Ditch the carbs and diet doctor websites have lots of info, recipes and meal ideas if you’re running out of ideas. Also whatever meal you fancy just google that with low carb or keto and almost always there are versions that can be made. And
    Meats/fish/dairy/cheeses/olives/seafood/nuts/berries are all good basics to build up with veg and salads

    Good luck at the dr. Check if you’ve had an hb1ac previously or just fasting glucose and get those old results.
     
  5. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    I was thinking - where is the low carb diet then?
    If you add up the carb content of the foods you are eating you might get a shock - granola, milk, beans, potato, rice and bread are all high carb foods - being brown or no added sugar doesn't make them low carb by a long stretch.
    I had hypos a few times before going low carb back in the 1970s - the main reason was to try to regain my 24 inch waist and 147lb weight, which never happened, but I was heading in that direction most successfully several times.
    There is always something to eat when doing low carb, and the variety of foods is great if you are prepared to give things a try.
    When I take food to a family feast day I always make sure to get first go at them, otherwise they are gone, the bowls scraped out.
     
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  6. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    If you are in England you can see if your surgery puts test results on line - they should be doing this - and how to register for it. Otherwise you can ask for print outs of any of your blood test results, including historical ones. It is my firm belief that we should never ever accept words such as "normal", "fine" etc without seeing the actual numbers yourself. Too many times too many of us are given wrong information.

    On your typical good day, how was your diet different from your typical bad day?

    The foods you mentioned are rather high in carbs.
    Breakfast cereals of whichever sort are full of carbs and sugar, including porridge. Wholemeal has just as many carbs as the white varieties, sweet potatoes have the same or even more than ordinary potatoes, beans and milk are also very difficult for us.

    Have a look at this site https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/60-seconds and in particular, this page
    https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/foods#foodlist

    Your body is clearly reacting badly to carbs and on your bad days your insulin is spiking to the extent it is making you go too low, causing what you call a sugar crash. Too much insulin is not good and is caused by too many carbs. If you resist carbs as much as possible, your insulin production should diminish to normal levels, thus stopping those crashes, and of course without the carbs you won't see the highs either.

    If your doctor gives you an HbA1c test, beware that this is a sort of average of your blood glucose over the previous 2 to 3 months, and as you experience a lot of lows, they will even out the average, so your HbA1c may appear normal.

    EDIT just noticed your lows are overnight. The Libre can be temperamental especially at night if you end up lying on it, and at least in my case, they can read low compared with a normal glucose meter.
     
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  7. Mechmoth

    Mechmoth · Newbie

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    Thanks so much for the advice everyone.

    As far as I'm aware my diet doesn't change very much, even on the bad days. In the past I've stuck to under 100g carbs a day, but that started to really take a negative effect on my gymnastic training, so I added in other carbs to give me more energy.

    I will take all advice and reduce my carbs again. Does anyone have any advice on keeping energy up for long distance running and aerial gymnastics while on a low carb diet?

    I have recently stated to take magnesium which I think has improved things somewhat and since monitoring my blood I've not had any terrible low feelings, such as shakes.

    I will be asking my doc what my past results have been and will report back xD
     
    #7 Mechmoth, Oct 21, 2018 at 7:39 PM
    Last edited: Oct 21, 2018
  8. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Are you replacing your carbs with additional fats for energy? If not that could be the reason for feeling like you don’t have enough energy.

    There are sporty people that manage low carb well. Perhaps take a look in the exercise sub forum here
     
  9. Scott-C

    Scott-C Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi, @Mechmoth , as a long term libre user, about two years, a couple of points spring to mind about how you are interpreting your graphs.

    First, if you view 24 hrs in portrait format, it can really cramp up the time axis and make changes look more "spikey" than they really are. Viewing in landscape gives a more realistic impression.

    Second, libre has a tendency to exaggerate lows and highs, and some sensors can be sketchier than others. I've had a few where it reports levels which are significantly below actual levels, and I only know that because I do bg tests. I reckon there's a fair chance that the hypos and hypers you are seeing are not actually there, but you're not going to know that for sure unless you do bg tests.

    Third, the spikes correspond with your mealtimes, and correspond with what we see on the cgm traces of many non-diabetics. They go up, then they come back down within a reasonable time. That is perfectly natural and tends to suggest that your endocrine system is working just as it should. You eat a meal, carbs end up as glucose in the bloodstream, insulin lets you use it as energy, and store the rest in the liver and muscles as glycogen for future use. A spike and dip like in your graphs tend to suggest that that process is working just fine for you - a post-meal spike and dip is what happens naturally in non-diabetics. There are many papers showing that.

    Fourth, the pancreas is far from perfect. It makes mistakes. It is not at all uncommon for non-diabetics to have dips and spikes out of range. Instead of the daily graphs you've posted, I'd encourage you to look at the "modal day", AGP graph which the pc software for libre offers. It stitches together daily graphs from a specified period and strips out the top and bottom 10% as outliers. It gives a much clearer, broader view of what is generally going on over an extended time period, so that recurring patterns can be seen more clearly.

    On the basis of the graphs you've posted, I'm inclined to say there isn't really a diabetes issue here, I'd be hesitant about any radical adjustment to your preferred carb intake, and the anaemia is probably the main thing which needs attention.
     
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  10. Mechmoth

    Mechmoth · Newbie

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    Thanks for the amazing advice on the sensor. Luckily it was testing my blood glucose was what pushed me to using the sensor. I actually found that my bg swings were more significant than what the sensor was picking up.

    Also, I get my iron levels tested every 6 months as I'm on medication for that, so lucky that can be ruled out.

    I'm going bk to bg testing now and try out the low carb diet again as I believe this could be me experiencing insulin resistance from the PCOS.

    I phoned up my doctors today and found that in 2014 my fasting blood glucose test came back as 5 mml/L which I was told is fine.


    QUOTE="Scott-C, post: 1904562, member: 374531"]Hi, @Mechmoth , as a long term libre user, about two years, a couple of points spring to mind about how you are interpreting your graphs.

    First, if you view 24 hrs in portrait format, it can really cramp up the time axis and make changes look more "spikey" than they really are. Viewing in landscape gives a more realistic impression.

    Second, libre has a tendency to exaggerate lows and highs, and some sensors can be sketchier than others. I've had a few where it reports levels which are significantly below actual levels, and I only know that because I do bg tests. I reckon there's a fair chance that the hypos and hypers you are seeing are not actually there, but you're not going to know that for sure unless you do bg tests.

    Third, the spikes correspond with your mealtimes, and correspond with what we see on the cgm traces of many non-diabetics. They go up, then they come back down within a reasonable time. That is perfectly natural and tends to suggest that your endocrine system is working just as it should. You eat a meal, carbs end up as glucose in the bloodstream, insulin lets you use it as energy, and store the rest in the liver and muscles as glycogen for future use. A spike and dip like in your graphs tend to suggest that that process is working just fine for you - a post-meal spike and dip is what happens naturally in non-diabetics. There are many papers showing that.

    Fourth, the pancreas is far from perfect. It makes mistakes. It is not at all uncommon for non-diabetics to have dips and spikes out of range. Instead of the daily graphs you've posted, I'd encourage you to look at the "modal day", AGP graph which the pc software for libre offers. It stitches together daily graphs from a specified period and strips out the top and bottom 10% as outliers. It gives a much clearer, broader view of what is generally going on over an extended time period, so that recurring patterns can be seen more clearly.

    On the basis of the graphs you've posted, I'm inclined to say there isn't really a diabetes issue here, I'd be hesitant about any radical adjustment to your preferred carb intake, and the anaemia is probably the main thing which needs attention.[/QUOTE]
     
  11. Engineer88

    Engineer88 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    [/QUOTE]

    Have you been checked for coeliac and thyroid levels checked? can you get the actual numbers for those also?
     
  12. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    2014 is 4 years ago! A lot can change but at least you know it was ok then.
     
  13. Emile_the_rat

    Emile_the_rat Type 1.5 · Well-Known Member

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    First you do not suffer from hyperglycemia, and your hypos are very mild.

    Your blood sugar seem to stay pretty much within normal range. So I have to ask, how long have you been using the sensor coherently? You usually have to wear it on for 5-7 days coherent for it to get a good calibrate.

    You don’t have any readings below 3 mmol, so your «hypos» might just be within margin of error with the sensor since you just have readings slightly below 4 mmol. I am pretty much fine at 3-4 mmol, and if you have RH it’s not unusual to get even lower reading, just saying.

    But one thing I can almost guarantee is that you’re not diabetic, at least not yet. Readings above 11.2 mmol are considered diabetic, blood sugar in the 8s are pretty normal actually, have many non diabetic friends/family that easily can get 8 mmol after eating, no biggie if it won’t continue raising :)
     
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