Anyone have symptoms with pre-diabetes?

[Catmad14]

I found out I had pre-diabetes in August, at the time I'd have said I didn't have any symptoms. Since then have tried to make adjustments in diet, a bit more exercise (am fairly active though) and switching screens off in evening in hope of better sleep.

Last week we were away, I eat really well at times but lapsed in terms of trying a local cake and dish and had a glass of wine every night. Been feeling tired all week, but have tried two different exercise classes. Went out last night, eat half a pizza and a glass of wine, found myself feeling quite sweaty in the night. So just wondering if the tiredness and being hot last night are symptoms of not eating so well.

 

[KennyA]

Hi and welcome.

I don't actually accept there's such a thing as "pre-diabetes". The whole "diagnosis at 48" thing was set up around 2008 to provide a fallback - it was accepted internationally that what ever else happened (ie earlier diagnosis wasn't ruled out), T2 would be diagnosed by everyone if BG rose past 48. The problem with that is that in the UK at least, it's become a fact that T2 will only be diagnosed with a BG of 48 and above.

Pre-diabetes had to be invented as a concept to cover the gap left when people's BG left normal levels (above 42ish, see graph) but before it rose to 48.

This matters because it's known medically (see Bilous and Donnelly, Handbook of Diabetes) that diabetic symptoms occur at lower BG levels. One of the reasons that 48 was selected as the fall back point was that serious retinopathy was relatively rare at BG levels below that. In other words, it is known that people did get retinopathy caused by elevated blood glucose levels, at levels under 48, but it was usually milder.

In my case, I had a pretty full range of diabetes symptoms starting about as soon as my BG left normal levels, which I think happened around 2010. I can't be sure because my medical records don't mention any BG levels from then. I started with oedema and weight gain, moved through kidney problems, bullae, "burning feet" neuropathy (I know my BG was 44 when that started in 2013/4), night sweats, blistering, cuts not healing, tissue paper skin, and more.

I did go to the doctor, but was firmly told I didn't have diabetes as my blood glucose wasn't high enough. I was on a range of medication to make my kidneys work, to stop the pain, that sort of thing. In those days I knew next to nothing about diabetes and assumed that I was getting good advice.

Roll forward to December 2019, and they tell me that actually I am now diabetic after all, because my BG had reached 50. By April 2020 I had reduced that to 36 and almost all the symptoms had gone immediately (although I still have some greatly reduced things that are probably permanent damage).

So the short answer is yes. The formal diagnosis level doesn't mean much in terms of symptoms. People have diabetic symptoms, ie diabetes, at lower levels and can have no symptoms with much higher BGs.

[edited to attach graph]

 

[RuHu]

I found out I had pre-diabetes in August, at the time I'd have said I didn't have any symptoms. Since then have tried to make adjustments in diet, a bit more exercise (am fairly active though) and switching screens off in evening in hope of better sleep.

Last week we were away, I eat really well at times but lapsed in terms of trying a local cake and dish and had a glass of wine every night. Been feeling tired all week, but have tried two different exercise classes. Went out last night, eat half a pizza and a glass of wine, found myself feeling quite sweaty in the night. So just wondering if the tiredness and being hot last night are symptoms of not eating so well.

I'm just waiting for results of my latest blood test last time I was 48 but I suspect I am over that figure now. I have nodded off with a phone in my hand a couple of times around 11 a.m. only to be woken up when my phone drops to the floor. I've also had what I thought were hot flushes returning so I feel like I've had the same sort of symptoms as you.
I'm trying to be careful but I need to educate my husband too as he does a lot of the shopping.

 

[Outlier]

I had all sorts of low-grade symptoms years before my diabetes diagnosis, and it was only when I lowered my blood glucose to non-diabetic levels and these things cleared up that I realised they were all connected to my T2. Some were: coated tongue, swollen tongue, severe dental plaque despite the best of hygiene, discoloured skin, skin tags, falling asleep after meals.....quite a few more, but that'll do.

 

[Catmad14]

Thanks for your replies. I felt a bit better yesterday, so I guess time will tell whether I'm just generally have a couple of off weeks or so, or whether it's symptoms.

 

[KennyA]

Thanks for your replies. I felt a bit better yesterday, so I guess time will tell whether I'm just generally have a couple of off weeks or so, or whether it's symptoms.

There are diabetic symptoms - ie symptoms of metabolic disorder, and symptoms/damage caused by high blood glucose, which is itself a symptom of metabolic disorder. And not everything you experience is caused by diabetes.

 

[Melgar]

I pee a lot. I’m keeping my blood sugars in the prediabetic range. At night I can get up about 4 times with copious amounts of pee. I have tried restricting my fluid intake so I don’t have fluids after 6pm. It’s made no difference. I was getting numb fingers, but I found that had nothing to do with diabetes, it was secondary Reynards disease.

Going slightly off from your question, a half pizza is full of carbs. It’s possible your pancreas may have produced a lot if insulin to cope with the carb intake and your blood sugars went a little low as your pancreas over produced insulin, sweating is one of the symptoms of low blood sugar. its quite a common reaction after eating something very carby. Your liver usually compensates and corrects the low blood sugar. Nothing to worry about.

 

[Ali Akin]

Hi and welcome.

I don't actually accept there's such a thing as "pre-diabetes". The whole "diagnosis at 48" thing was set up around 2008 to provide a fallback - it was accepted internationally that what ever else happened (ie earlier diagnosis wasn't ruled out), T2 would be diagnosed by everyone if BG rose past 48. The problem with that is that in the UK at least, it's become a fact that T2 will only be diagnosed with a BG of 48 and above.

Pre-diabetes had to be invented as a concept to cover the gap left when people's BG left normal levels (above 42ish, see graph) but before it rose to 48.

This matters because it's known medically (see Bilous and Donnelly, Handbook of Diabetes) that diabetic symptoms occur at lower BG levels. One of the reasons that 48 was selected as the fall back point was that serious retinopathy was relatively rare at BG levels below that. In other words, it is known that people did get retinopathy caused by elevated blood glucose levels, at levels under 48, but it was usually milder.

In my case, I had a pretty full range of diabetes symptoms starting about as soon as my BG left normal levels, which I think happened around 2010. I can't be sure because my medical records don't mention any BG levels from then. I started with oedema and weight gain, moved through kidney problems, bullae, "burning feet" neuropathy (I know my BG was 44 when that started in 2013/4), night sweats, blistering, cuts not healing, tissue paper skin, and more.

I did go to the doctor, but was firmly told I didn't have diabetes as my blood glucose wasn't high enough. I was on a range of medication to make my kidneys work, to stop the pain, that sort of thing. In those days I knew next to nothing about diabetes and assumed that I was getting good advice.

Roll forward to December 2019, and they tell me that actually I am now diabetic after all, because my BG had reached 50. By April 2020 I had reduced that to 36 and almost all the symptoms had gone immediately (although I still have some greatly reduced things that are probably permanent damage).

So the short answer is yes. The formal diagnosis level doesn't mean much in terms of symptoms. People have diabetic symptoms, ie diabetes, at lower levels and can have no symptoms with much higher BGs.

[edited to attach graph]

The graph you posted is absolutely horrific, the mean a1c is literally almost prediabetic range. IMHO there is NO difference between prediabetes and T2, same exact disease just how severe it is. So to this this many people have diabetes worldwide is really HORRIFIC. There is really no other way to describe it, the graph you posted is hard to look at even cuz it’s just so awful.

 

[KennyA]

The graph you posted is absolutely horrific, the mean a1c is literally almost prediabetic range. IMHO there is NO difference between prediabetes and T2, same exact disease just how severe it is. So to this this many people have diabetes worldwide is really HORRIFIC. There is really no other way to describe it, the graph you posted is hard to look at even cuz it’s just so awful.

I am not sure what you're seeing here. The graph clearly shows that normal - ie non-diabetic - people have Hba1cs clustered around a mean of 38. They are not ill - at least, they don't have diabetes. And this graph is fairly typical of populations, it just happens to be mainly Dutch people.

I agree it's possible for people to have diabetic symptoms at levels which officially are "pre-diabetic" - I am or was one of those people. I also think that pre-diabetes is next to meaningless as a concept - the issue is that BG is no longer in normal range which is and has been defined as ending at 42 mmol/mol.

You might want to have a look at how BG values behave in non-diabetic people. This research is interesting.

Continuous Glucose Profiles in Healthy Subjects under Everyday Life Conditions and after Different Meals - PMC

This study investigated continuous glucose profiles in nondiabetic subjects. Continuous interstitial glucose measurement was performed under everyday life conditions (2 days) and after ingestion of four meals with standardized carbohydrate content ...

pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[Chris24Main]

The graph you posted is absolutely horrific, the mean a1c is literally almost prediabetic range. IMHO there is NO difference between prediabetes and T2, same exact disease just how severe it is. So to this this many people have diabetes worldwide is really HORRIFIC. There is really no other way to describe it, the graph you posted is hard to look at even cuz it’s just so awful.

@Ali Akin ... what is it exactly that you are reacting to? The graph is just statistical data of real people... I don't mean to sound antagonistic, just curious. There is definitely (at least in my opinion) a worrying conclusion that far more people are living with insulin resistance than is realised outside of the diabetic community, but what is it that think is horriffic?

 

[Chris24Main]

By the way - @Ali Akin - you don't need to reply by clicking "reply" - you can just type in the box below.

 

[jeano999]

Interesting article. Most thing of note is that the four meal types (4 meals a day? - I wish) were all fairly carb heavy and it would have been interesting to see this sort of monitoring on non-diabetic folks following a less carby regime.

Edited to say that I also know in hindsight that I was probably diabetic tears before I asked for a test in 2016 which was confirmed Type 2. Main symptoms were weight gain (and I was anal about counting calories), peeing a lot, fatigue, hot flushes all of which are menopausal/post menopausal too. I became suspicious after a few UTIs. I had had gestational diabetes in 93 so I had some awareness but it still took a while for the penny to drop. I had just felt so unwell for so long that I had just got used to it. Went on lchf diet/keto/fasting after about 18 months and within 6 months dropped the meds (metformin gave me gut issues). Since then my HbA1C has been in the Pre-diabetic range and am waiting for the outcome of my annual blood test earlier this week and I expect it to have dropped even more. However a couple of weeks ago I got the results of my retinopathy screening and for the first time I have signs of it.

This outcome could just be because the damage was already done and it just takes time to surface, or it could be that the accumulation of "peaks" in daily BS can contribute to affects down the road so I shouldn't become complacent about being in the "pre-diabetic" range and relax my guard.

A side note: when I went for my annual blood draw and feet tickling with the diabetic nurse I happened to mention that I had self funded some testing strips and had been testing for the last six months she strongly advised against testing as it makes your fingers sore! WHAT? My next delivery of testing strips is on its way!