Are spikes bad if they come down straight after?

No answer to your question, but happy birthday!

EmilyMay11 said:

Today is my birthday. I will admit I have eaten absolute rubbish today, lots of sugar and lots of treats. I make no apologies as it is only once a year. The first spike at around 9am, I had a Starbucks coffee and a croissant (around 35-40g sugar). The second spike I had a family sized bar of galaxy and a large bag of crisps (around like 70g sugar)
These of course spiked my blood sugar but both times it went straight back down, my question would be are spikes bad if they go straight back down? While I obviously don’t intend to eat like this everyday, it has got me thinking I can increase my carbs slightly.

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Happy birthday.
If it is once a year, then fine, as long as you don't tend to have more birthdays than the king, every year.
The reason why low carb diet works for most of us, helping us to reduce hba1c levels and overall BG levels is because of the reduction of the high spikes, which in the majority of T2s will be abnormally high.
So Having consistent lower spikes will help with not only the spikes but the need for more insulin, which because of insulin resistance, will not work as efficiently as a non diabetic.
So, if you do want to be healthier, a low carb diet, will help.
And if you want, to increase your carbs, do it slowly, so you don't have the unnecessary spikes.
Your CGM should be helping with the results you get from the rubbish you refer to.
Avoid the high spikes and the rapid sugar crashes.
That is my experience.

You baaaaad girl Emily!!!!!

How have you been feeling? Have you been more hungry since? Have you had more carb cravings? Tired? I'd probably get a massive migraine after a day of such spikes too.

This is how I can tell it's not worth it for me.

EmilyMay11 said:

Thank you for explaining to me. That makes a lot of sense. Might try and increase carbs by 10g until I reach 70g carbs a day of something along that figure.

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Keep track of those BG levels.
I notice that you return to normal levels similar to me. Which is great.
Anything above 8mmols would be abnormal for a low carb diet.
So if you incrementally increase your carbs, and remain within this target that would be great.
However, some carbs are worse than others, so do be wary of the effect some higher GI carbs could have.
And of course the fats you have will help with the spikes.
Best wishes.

Melgar said:

Happy birthday @EmilyMay11 . Although as it’s 4pm here on the Canadian west coast so it’s happy belated birthday wishes.

I'm of the opinion that every now and then a bit of badness is not going to hurt, as long as you are not ill afterwards. I had an ice cream the other day, I enjoyed every mouthful and I didn’t suffer too much (I’m lactose intolerant) it could have been a nasty experience, but it wasn’t. I didn’t check my blood sugars because I knew my BS would be high.

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Tut, tut, tut!
I wish I could mate.

Most of the diabetic 2 literature that I have read mention measuring BS before meal and 2 hours after meal. If it is within 2mmol/L of your starting BS reading that meal is supposed to be okay for you. There is very little literature about high your BS should be allowed to go up between those two readings.


Also there is another issue which has never been explained properly. There is general knowledge that if you eat fibre before carbs your BS does not spike as much, but from the graphs I have seen on social media the BS stays elevated for much longer period.


So is it better to get a high spike and come down quickly (within 2 hours) or not have that high a spike but have your BS elevated at slightly lower level but for a much longer period (say 4 hours).


I wish there was some reliable information about both these issues which we could all read.

AshwinShah46 said:

Most of the diabetic 2 literature that I have read mention measuring BS before meal and 2 hours after meal. If it is within 2mmol/L of your starting BS reading that meal is supposed to be okay for you. There is very little literature about high your BS should be allowed to go up between those two readings.


Also there is another issue which has never been explained properly. There is general knowledge that if you eat fibre before carbs your BS does not spike as much, but from the graphs I have seen on social media the BS stays elevated for much longer period.


So is it better to get a high spike and come down quickly (within 2 hours) or not have that high a spike but have your BS elevated at slightly lower level but for a much longer period (say 4 hours).


I wish there was some reliable information about both these issues which we could all read.

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I can only tell you if my experience.
I have a tendency to have an abnormal high spike with carbs.
This is because of the first phase insulin response.

So I learnt quickly that my symptoms were caused by the high spike, cos your brain does not like rapid highs and lows in your BG levels. If you have experienced a sugar crash, then those symptoms are part and parcel of the what happens.
If I had porridge, for breakfast I would have a very rapid spike, my second phase would counter it, and for of the abnormal spikes, I would have a crash into hypo levels which increased the symptoms.
And of course, the next meal, would do the same a rollercoaster ride of BG levels.

This really affected my health.

I have to be in keto.
Which means my BG levels are in or just above normal consistently.
This is where I have to be.
No symptoms, no spikes, no crashes.

With my food which is obviously low carb, I have good natural fats.
And if I was to chance having a few more carbs, I would factor in more fats to flatten the curve of the rise derived from the meal.
I have never found fibre to have an effect other than being more carbs.

Without doubt, in my experience, the lower the spike, the better. The longer the curve is explanatory.

Fascinating discussion, and of course, the answer is that it depends on you...

as @Lamont D points out - we look at glucose, but it's the insulin that counts - your level of insulin sensitivity / resistance will affect everything, and the long term goal (at least as far as I see it) is about allowing your body to use this incredibly powerful hormone sparingly, so in that sense, for most people; going off the rails occasionally is totally fine.

If you are on a Keto diet, then it's much more about the glucose spike creating a corresponding insulin spike that will knock you out of Ketosis.. that would be why I would avoid all and any spikes, but that's me... I don't think that the odd spike is inherently dangerous, but you can say that about a cigarette, or a whiskey, or a joint ... if you have any concerns about the likelihood of falling off the wagon, you need to think about that, and recognise the addictiveness of sugar.

and everything you do will be part of a feedback loop, the more fruit you eat, the more your gut will be loaded with bacteria aimed at digesting the fibre from that fruit, etc.. and the reverse, someone on a long term low carb regime will have a much more significant reaction to the sugars in the same fruit.

On fibre - there is a lot of discussion about whether we need it at all - why would we have evolved to need something we cannot digest... but my sense is that, in a high carb diet it will help slow the absorption (and reduce overall absorption of sugars) but that in a low-carb regime it's not so clear. I like my rocket and cauliflower, so I'm not ready (at least not yet) to go full carnivore myself.

In the end - all of us are in this for life; and whatever we plan to do has to be something we can do for the whole of that life - blowing out on your birthday sounds like part of a good plan to me... The very worst thing we can do is turn eating into a dull points-based system that provides no pleasure...