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Are spikes really that bad

Harebrain

Harebrain

Well-Known Member
Messages
47
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I know that this will stir a lot of people up but I want to ask this.

If I have a particularly carby meal, but by medication or exercise or a combination of both my 2 hr post prandial is back within NICE guidelines i.e. below 8.5, does the size of the spike matter and is there any clinical evidence for any damage that it might do.

I'm T2 due to long term steroid treatment (over 20 years) and on Glick 80mg twice daily although I split the AM dose into 2
 
Well for me yes I'd say it does matter as being in much the same situation as you but with diabetic complications I would rather keep BS levels as low as possible.

"
Thus, as indicated above, glycaemic excursions within the physiological range in healthy volunteers induce physiologically significant effects on endothelial function, oxidative stress and immune activation. Nevertheless, in normal glucose-tolerant subjects these inflammatory responses normalized within 2–3 h, while in obese impaired glucose-tolerant and type 2 diabetic subjects, glucose-induced inflammation was stronger or lasted longer, suggesting a role for hyperglycaemia in immune activation (147–150). Also in diabetic patients, after oral glucose and after meals, reactive oxygen species (ROS) and/or LDL oxidation was increased, indicating hyperglycaemia-induced activation of oxidative stress (151). Several markers have been used to assess oxidative stress and the antioxidant status in patients with diabetes, including ox-LDL and malondialdehyde (152). The short plasma half-life of these markers is one of the limiting factors for the assessment of oxidative stress in plasma samples. Thus, when available, urinary measures provide a more reliable determination of the activation of oxidative stress than plasma measurements. From several studies, both in vitro and in vivo, there is consistent evidence that hyperglycaemia is associated with an increased urinary excretion rate of the oxidative stress marker 8-iso-prostaglandin F2alpha. Ceriello (153) showed that the production of free radicals was increased in the postprandial period and that this increment was proportional to the magnitude of postprandial glucose excursions. Moreover, reductions of postmeal glucose excursions induced by a premeal bolus of a rapid insulin analogue resulted in decrements in glycaemia and nitrotyrosine, a metabolite derived from nitrosamine stress responses. Overall, numerous studies support the hypothesis of a causal relationship between hyperglycaemia and oxidative stress.

This seems consistent with findings that the metabolic syndrome may support peripheral inflammation by sensitizing leukocytes to up-regulate pro-inflammatory markers in response to glucose, which in turn increases the risk for T2DM and CVD (154)."

From here https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3494382/
 
Have a read of this webpage (the whole site is excellent and really useful for T2s)
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
Plenty of evidence here for organ damage at increased and sustained blood glucose levels in excess of 7.9mmol/l

Edited: Ooops - that should have read 7.8mmol/l
 
Last edited:
Brunneria said:
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
Plenty of evidence here for organ damage at increased and sustained blood glucose levels in excess of 7.9mmol/l
Click to expand...
That's a great resource, thank you! My GP, who knows almost nothing about diabetes, has told me that having blood sugar constantly at 13 for several more weeks would not be a problem. Not that I believed her of course - mostly because having it over 13 makes me feel really sick and produce a lot of ketones in my urine :hungover:

But it's great to have some published research to cite :bookworm:
 
Brunneria said:
Have a read of this webpage (the whole site is excellent and really useful for T2s)
http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/14045678.php
Plenty of evidence here for organ damage at increased and sustained blood glucose levels in excess of 7.9mmol/l

Edited: Ooops - that should have read 7.8mmol/l
Click to expand...

Hi
Very interesting webpage.
I found this interesting at the bottom. "... most doctors are not aware that it is possible reverse neuropathy by lowering blood sugars to normal levels or believe it is impossible for people with diabetes to lower their blood sugars to normal levels at all...".
My neuropathy has certainly got better, in fact almost gone. I was told by my GP that this was irreversible.
 
@BrianTheElder wrote, My neuropathy has certainly got better, in fact almost gone. I was told by my GP that this was irreversible.
The same phrase, "..... has certainly got better, in fact almost gone." can also be applied to my husband's retinopathy. And he didn't do it by tempting fate with raised blood sugar levels, even occasional ones.
Sally
 
I'm not sure that I am stirred up - but I do feel concerned that you contemplate having particularly carby meals and hope to avoid any consequences.
I have seen my pre and post prandial readings reducing towards normal when I kept spikes low, and I hope to see even lower levels if I keep to low carb foods. There is no food that tastes good enough to make me want to live with the consequences of high blood glucose.
 
To me it's simple logic, once you are educated that having spikes initially within the first hour and at levels at two hours above pre meal reading, that is what is causing the hyperglycaemia, mix in insulin resistance and in some obese diabetics hyperinsulinaemia, then keeping your blood glucose levels at or near normal, can offset future health problems!
 
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