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Beware the Perils of Severe Hypoglycemia

cugila

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I went shoplifting at one of the friendly Diabetes Forums on line this morning..........I think this deserves a wider audience......be interesting to see what comments we get here. Particularly from those who run numbers at very low levels.

Ken.

Beware the Perils of Severe Hypoglycemia
Robert J. Tanenberg, MD, FACP - Diabetes Health Advisory Board Member
May 13, 2010

Over 80 years ago, famed diabetologist Elliot Joslin said about the treatment of patients with type 1 diabetes: "Ketoacidosis may kill a patient, but frequent hypoglycemic reactions will ruin him." Unfortunately, hypoglycemia continues to be the most difficult problem facing most patients.

Link: http://www.diabeteshealth.com/read/2010 ... 1#comments
 
I think it is a great article.

I am a Type 2 and I have lost count of the times on here I have posted about Hypoglycaemia in general and the consequences for Type 1's regarding severe hypo's. It almost seems to be like some badge of honour to some that they can go low down to 1's and 2's and almost boast that they don't feel anything, they can function properly. This seems madness to me.

This article clearly points out the dangers of such intense tight control. Now, I am all for everybody keeping tight control but there are limits to what is good for you. Most know that high levels are bad for you and will eventually cause complications, however there are many who seem to think that ultra low will make it better. Not so ! There are consequences to everything.

Going too low, below the medically defined level of 3.9 mmol/l (rounded up to 4 for safety) is something that should be avoided at all costs. It is as bad for you as those high levels and can, as the article points out be fatal. I am also convinced of the argument that frequent low levels affect the cognitive abilities of the individual over time. Think about it, when you are hypo how do you feel.........cr*p !

I know, just as a T2 who is having hypo's regularly because I am trying to get medication and food intake back into sync after cancer treatment decimated my tight control that I start to behave differently, shake, lose concentration, make mistakes (yes, I know !). None of this is good for us. It must have an effect in the long term to be like that regularly.

So, I go with tight control.....but the levels need to be kept within acceptable limits at BOTH ends of the scale. That's why I will never tell anybody that the lowest possible is the best. It can end your life, it certainly will impair it.

Then there is the little matter of hypo unawareness......something which if you drive can lose you your licence. The people who boast of these low levels are probably breaking all the DVLA medical rules and shouldn't be driving, they are almost certainly breaking Road Traffic Law regarding hypo's as well.

As an ex Traffic Cop it worries me that there are people who consider themselves responsible adults, yet think that is Ok, to take risks with their lives....but more importantly with the lives of those around them, loved ones.....all because they think it is clever to go ultra low and not feel bad.......rant over !

Ken
 
I wholeheartedly agree with what the article states, hypoglycemia is always a constant worry to anyone using insulin, and the tragic events of the 23 year old mentioned highlights it even more. As diabetics, we know to well of the dangers of raised blood glucose and the damage it can do to our internal organs, pro-longed and unstable diabetes control will eventually catch up with us all, although I know some are a exception to the rule, but frequent hypo's are undoubtedly just as harmful too.

When I was talking with my diabetes consultant last year, I said that I had changed my diet and insulin needs and was looking to reduce my hba1c from the mid 7's down to the lower 6's, and by doing so I was trying to reduce my frequent episodes of hypo/hyper bg levels, by eating foods that would give me less fluctuations in my bg. Although he was pleased that I wanted to reduce my hba1c, he was cautious to warn me not to try and lower it to far and run the risk of more frequent hypo's, and lose my good hypo awareness as a result. Later in the year whilst doing the DAFNE course, in the doctors questions, he again warned us all of the dangers of frequent hypo's and the harm it may have on the brain in the long-term, I did ask if there was any evidence to suggest this is the case, but he didn't answer and said that research was on-going in this field.

I am still determined to lower my hba1c to 6, but I am satisfied in leaving it at that and hope to maintain this figure rather than lower it any further. I have reduced the amount of hypo's I experience recently, possibly due to the fact that I have reduced my insulin use by a third, but admit that I now test more than I ever did and take preventative measures when I start getting readings of 4.5 . I personally think this talk of reducing hba1c's down to 'non-diabetic levels' is simply crazy, more so for type 1's, what is the point of trying to achieve this and run the risk of losing your hypo awareness and endangering your life, and those around you in certain circumstances. We are diabetics, simple as, we are far better to try and maintain realistic levels based on our own personal circumstances.

It is a fine balance, but I can see why most consultants are wary of patients lowering there bg's to far. There has been many times lately that I have read people's posts here and elsewhere advocating that running bg numbers below 4 but above 3 as being safe for all, including type 1's!, this advice is very dangerous and should never be followed, always stay well above 4 at all times, and try to test whenever possible, more-so before driving, bedtime etc.

Regards

Nigel
 
cugila said:
I think it is a great article.

I am a Type 2 and I have lost count of the times on here I have posted about Hypoglycaemia in general and the consequences for Type 1's regarding severe hypo's. It almost seems to be like some badge of honour to some that they can go low down to 1's and 2's and almost boast that they don't feel anything, they can function properly. This seems madness to me.

Ken, I can assure you that it is no badge of honour that any of us who are dependent on insulin get to find at times that our bg levels have dropped really low down to 2 or even 1.? something. Often very worryingly people actually feel completely normal and the brain just hasn't sent the signals to warn us. Why this happens does need to be investigated. It might be due to the modern insulins but who knows?

This article clearly points out the dangers of such intense tight control. Now, I am all for everybody keeping tight control but there are limits to what is good for you. Most know that high levels are bad for you and will eventually cause complications, however there are many who seem to think that ultra low will make it better. Not so ! There are consequences to everything.

Going too low, below the medically defined level of 3.9 mmol/l (rounded up to 4 for safety) is something that should be avoided at all costs. It is as bad for you as those high levels and can, as the article points out be fatal. I am also convinced of the argument that frequent low levels affect the cognitive abilities of the individual over time. Think about it, when you are hypo how do you feel.........cr*p !

Yes thanks to the use of the 3 day cgm, consultants are now finding out that some people are remaining in the low bg range overnight for too long a time and that there is the possibility of getting some damage to the brain resulting in mild dementia.

I know, just as a T2 who is having hypo's regularly because I am trying to get medication and food intake back into sync after cancer treatment decimated my tight control that I start to behave differently, shake, lose concentration, make mistakes (yes, I know !). None of this is good for us. It must have an effect in the long term to be like that regularly.

So, I go with tight control.....but the levels need to be kept within acceptable limits at BOTH ends of the scale. That's why I will never tell anybody that the lowest possible is the best. It can end your life, it certainly will impair it.

I now take the NICE guidelines regarding bg testing for Type 1s (and those who also depend on insulin) with a slight pinch of salt. Through following the guidelines and trying to aim for a bg level of 4 before I ate often meant that I would be on 2 or 3 instead, so none of that for me now. My target is to be on 6 or 7 before I eat and then be on 9 or 10 two hrs later.

Then there is the little matter of hypo unawareness......something which if you drive can lose you your licence. The people who boast of these low levels are probably breaking all the DVLA medical rules and shouldn't be driving, they are almost certainly breaking Road Traffic Law regarding hypo's as well.

If people test frequently and make sure that their bg levels are somewhere near 10 before they start their car engine and also have some sweets within easy access on the dashboard, then hypos in vehicles should not happen. I never take any chances at all where driving is concerned, it's far easier to suck a couple of sweets to prevent going low than it is to start to feel hypo and have to navigate the car to safely pull up beside a kerb.

As an ex Traffic Cop it worries me that there are people who consider themselves responsible adults, yet think that is Ok, to take risks with their lives....but more importantly with the lives of those around them, loved ones.....all because they think it is clever to go ultra low and not feel bad.......rant over !

Ken
 
IHS.
Whilst I accept what you say I would have preferred it if you had commented on the very good article and not on what after all is just my opinion about the article and my own personal comments.

I am just trying to bring a serious issue to the attention of Forum users, T1's in particular. This subject is posted on many Fora........not something we should ignore I think. I would hate to think that some newly diagnosed T1 has read something here that gives the impression that levels as low as quoted are Ok and nothing to worry about. You only have to look around the Forum to see such posts.

Only yesterday a new T1 contacted me via a pm and was so confused at to what were safe levels because of all the conflicting information floating around the net, I was able to assure him he wasn't going to instantly die if he dropped below 4, however I also warned him that low levels are not good and can quickly lead to danger if not dealt with properly.

I have no doubt that there are many reasons why some Insulin users drop so low, it is my view that those who do this deliberately are storing up trouble for themselves. That is what meant by my comment. My personal comment.

As for the guideline pre-meal levels, it states between 4 - 7 mmol/l. That to me implies that something like 5-6 is more acceptable to avoid being too low as you have found, they are just guidelines after all.

Ken
 
cugila said:
IHS.
Whilst I accept what you say I would have preferred it if you had commented on the very good article and not on what after all is just my opinion about the article and my own personal comments.

I am just trying to bring a serious issue to the attention of Forum users, T1's in particular. This subject is posted on many Fora........not something we should ignore I think. I would hate to think that some newly diagnosed T1 has read something here that gives the impression that levels as low as quoted are Ok and nothing to worry about. You only have to look around the Forum to see such posts.

Only yesterday a new T1 contacted me via a pm and was so confused at to what were safe levels because of all the conflicting information floating around the net, I was able to assure him he wasn't going to instantly die if he dropped below 4, however I also warned him that low levels are not good and can quickly lead to danger if not dealt with properly.

I have no doubt that there are many reasons why some Insulin users drop so low, it is my view that those who do this deliberately are storing up trouble for themselves. That is what meant by my comment. My personal comment.

As for the guideline pre-meal levels, it states between 4 - 7 mmol/l. That to me implies that something like 5-6 is more acceptable to avoid being too low as you have found, they are just guidelines after all.

Ken

Yes the article is very good and people should read it.
 
agreed, very interesting article :D

I for one, have never and will never relish in going below 2. When I get that low and feel 'ok' when I test I get frusrated and upset that I have gone that low without noticing or getting warnings (doesn't happen much anymore as I took steps to get my warnings back!). When I see anything below 4 on my meter I tut and feel annoyed and sad. Then I spend a few minutes at least stressing about how it happened, how it can be avoided and with firm assurances to myself to not make that mistake again. But what if it wasn't a mistake?! what if I did everything by the book but still dropped low. This morning, I prepared breakfast with my other half, I cut the bread and mixed the eggs for french toast whilst he was making the coffee. Then he dipped the bread while I layed the table. He served me my plate of food (yum!) and I ate and enjoyed. Then I turned and saw that only half the bread had been used (I had cut 2 slices for each of us). He told me he had run out of egg! But guess what? I had tested and bolused without checking. Now, that was ok, I was able to correct the situation and eat some more (any excuse for seconds!) but I would have gone low if I had been in less control of the situation.

Anyway, I'm waffling, lows suck as much as highs for me. 6 is the holy grail, even if it seems too high for some people, it works well for me :D
 
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