Bigger breakfast smaller dinner?

[Alexandra100]

Sorry, I don't have my food diary available. It's 0n my PC and I'm away from home this week. It was Fage Total Greek yogurt, about 2 tablespoons, plus a sprinkle of flaxseed, and either 2 strawberries or 5 raspberries.

As far as I can tell, the yoghurt + berries option contained quite a lot more carbs than the boiled egg / coffee with cream option, perhaps even three or four times as many?

 

[ringi]

Am I missing the point here, the article says to eat 50% of your calories at breakfast, I eat low carb coconut porridge and although it’s low carb it is high calorie. It talks about insulin response with calories, surely that’ll only happen if it’s high carb as well? I’m confused (easily done! ).

Remember that protein also has a inslin response and some of the best result have been from giving people a high protein breakfast as they then eat less for the rest of the day.

Most poeple when told to eat a large breakfast think of a cooked breakfast.....

 

[Bluetit1802]

As far as I can tell, the yoghurt + berries option contained quite a lot more carbs than the boiled egg / coffee with cream option, perhaps even three or four times as many?

Yes of course it had, which is why I stopped having it for breakfast. I'm not sure what you are getting at? I now have almost zero carbs for breakfast. This causes no rise and keeps me at my fasting level as near as dammit. I do spoil that with a cup of tea mid morning, but the rise from the milk is hardly significant, and brief.

 

[ickihun]

So does that mean it's OK to eat carbs at breakfast if one's fasting bg that day is low?

That is recommended on injecting insulin. However if your diligent it doesn't have to be that way but any distraction can lead to a dangerous situation, quiet fast.

 

[ickihun]

This doesn't make sense to me. If my levels are low I don't eat carbs so as not to spoil them, and if they are high presumably I don't eat carbs so as not to make them worse??? So I never eat ANY carbs ever?

@Alexandra100 do you just rely on your own insulin rather than any injected?

 

[ickihun]

Remember that protein also has a inslin response and some of the best result have been from giving people a high protein breakfast as they then eat less for the rest of the day.

Most poeple when told to eat a large breakfast think of a cooked breakfast.....

Protein has more satiety than carbs but many say fat has more.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

we should eat 50% of our daily calories at breakfast.

Can you move after eating half your normal daily ration in on go? Full English anyone?

 

[Sue192]

In the end, do what feels right for you. Do what works for your bg or anything other health component you are helping or trying to reduce. Of course it's good to read what works for others so that you have ideas to try, and also of course some people really do have to keep a tight control on food, but can you 'over-think' the whole concept of nutrition? The subject of this thread is a case in point: I have never been a breakfast person, right from an early age, except for when I'm on holiday and I have a cooked breakfast - this keeps me going until the evening and is great for when you're sightseeing etc. Normal days or work days I can keep going until mid-day from around 8pm the night before just on coffee and cream. This regime works for me, so I won't be changing it for the breakfast like a king thing because I know that doesn't agree with my 'set-up'.

 

[AdamJames]

Do what works for your bg or anything other health component you are helping or trying to reduce.

Indeed, while the people who did the study suggest that your body can handle carbs better in the morning, that's the precise opposite of what many people on this forum report.

 

[Alexandra100]

@Alexandra100 do you just rely on your own insulin rather than any injected?

Yes. That is to say, I have the impression that my own insulin is pretty inadequate, but as my last A1c was 37 I don't harbour hopes of getting any doctor (except Dr Bernstein, who sadly doesn't work for the NHS!) to prescribe me insulin. And as I suffer from gastroparesis, mealtime insulin would not work for me. My plan is to keep my bg as low as I can while consuming <20g carbs daily in the hopes that my gastroparesis will have gone into remisssion by the time my insulin really fails me.

 

[Alexandra100]

Yes of course it had, which is why I stopped having it for breakfast. I'm not sure what you are getting at? I now have almost zero carbs for breakfast. This causes no rise and keeps me at my fasting level as near as dammit. I do spoil that with a cup of tea mid morning, but the rise from the milk is hardly significant, and brief.

I was just interested as to whether the yoghurt in particular was spiking you, or just the quantity of carbs it contains, if you see the distinction? So if, theoretically, you ate enough eggs, or enough cups of coffee with cream for breakfast to equal the carbs in the yoghurt and berries, would that be just as likely to cause a rise? Basically I'm just wondering if I'll ever manage to work yoghurt into a very low carb regime, as I'd like to do.

 

[ringi]

Protein has more satiety than carbs but many say fat has more.

If I recall correctly the research shows that the most satiety comes from high protein with about 40% energy from fat (e.g. a nice steak) and the least comes from high carbs with high fat (e.g. doughnut). (Remember that 1 gram of fat gives about double the energy than one gram of carbs or protein.) Eggs are also close to the ideal mix of protein and fat, hence the steak and egg diet.

Most low carb diets are based on keeping the protein normal and swapping fat for carbs, as some people think very high levels of protein are harmful. But remember that for most of us, some of the fat comes from the weight we are losing...

Indeed, while the people who did the study suggest that your body can handle carbs better in the morning, that's the precise opposite of what many people on this forum report.

Be careful, we are looking at short-term BG changes, these studies have looked at long-term markers like A1c. For example, it is possible that carbs late at night are more likely to result in additional fat on the liver, regardless of BG levels. (Personly I just avoid nearly all carbs whatever time of day it is.)

Can you move after eating half your normal daily ration in on go? Full English anyone?

I can do a 20-mile walk after a full English breakfast, and often have one before a day of mountain walking. But most days I delay breakfast until lunchtime, then have lots of eggs. (It is still breakfast, as it is the meal breaking the overnight fast.)

 

[AdamJames]

Be careful, we are looking at short-term BG changes, these studies have looked at long-term markers like A1c. For example, it is possible that carbs late at night are more likely to result in additional fat on the liver, regardless of BG levels.

I was referring to this quote...

"Our body metabolism changes throughout the day. A slice of bread consumed at breakfast leads to a lower glucose response and is less fattening than an identical slice of bread consumed in the evening"

...which seems to be about the immediate effect on blood sugars.

 

[DavidGrahamJones]

I can do a 20-mile walk after a full English breakfast,

I used to enjoy long walks near my home in Bucks, arthritis put a stop to that and unfortunately only one of the two knee replacements is near perfect. I expect 50% of one's daily allowance also depends on a daily allowance. My Basic Metabolic Rate is 2700 calories, so 1350 calories in one go would be an achievement.

 

[kokhongw]

At three months, while the Bdiet group lost 5 kilograms (11 pounds) the 6Mdiet group gained 1.4 kg (3 lb).

Fasting glucose levels decreased 54 mg/dl (from 161 to 107) in the Bdiet group but only 23 mg/dl (from 164 to 141) in the 6Mdiet group. Overall mean glucose levels dropped in the first 14 days by 29 mg/dl (from 167 to 138 mg/dl) and 38 mg/dl (from 167 to 129 mg/dl) after three months in the Bdiet group. Overall mean glucose levels dropped only 9 mg/dl (from 171 to 162 mg/dl) in the first 14 days and only 17 mg/dl (from 171 to 154 mg/dl) in the 6Mdiet group.

Mean glucose levels during sleep dropped only in the Bdiet group, by 24 mg/dl (from 131 to 107), but not in the 6Mdiet group.

The Bdiet group needed significantly less insulin (-20.5 units/day, from 54.7 to 34.8) while the 6Mdiet group needed more insulin (+2.2 units/day, from 67.8 to 70).

Carbohydrate craving and hunger decreased significantly in Bdiet group but increased in the 6Mdiet group.

Importantly, the researchers found a significant reduction of overall glycemia after as little as 14 days on Bdiet, when the participant had almost the same weight as at baseline. This finding suggests that even before weight loss, the change in the meal timing itself has a quick beneficial effect on glucose balance that is further improved by the important weight loss found in the 3M diet.

"A diet with adequate meal timing and frequency has a pivotal role in glucose control and weight loss," Jakubowicz observed.

I would think that this approach has meaningful numbers/results for those who have particular difficulty in improving their fasting glucose levels.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I was just interested as to whether the yoghurt in particular was spiking you, or just the quantity of carbs it contains, if you see the distinction? So if, theoretically, you ate enough eggs, or enough cups of coffee with cream for breakfast to equal the carbs in the yoghurt and berries, would that be just as likely to cause a rise? Basically I'm just wondering if I'll ever manage to work yoghurt into a very low carb regime, as I'd like to do.

Try it and see. Full fat Greek yogurts have very few carbs if you keep portions reasonably low.

I eat a lot of eggs and have never counted any carbs from them.

 

[Brunneria]

I was just interested as to whether the yoghurt in particular was spiking you, or just the quantity of carbs it contains, if you see the distinction? So if, theoretically, you ate enough eggs, or enough cups of coffee with cream for breakfast to equal the carbs in the yoghurt and berries, would that be just as likely to cause a rise? Basically I'm just wondering if I'll ever manage to work yoghurt into a very low carb regime, as I'd like to do.

I seem to have an intolerance to the whey in cow’s milk. Whereas sheep and goat’s milk are OK.

As a result of extensive self testing, i now know that i need to avoid the whey in cow’s milk, soft cheeses and yog (because I get too high spikes AND symptoms of intolerance), but can take other cow’s milk products (where the whey is removed, such as butter or hard cheese without symptoms of intolerance).

Yet I can eat sheep and goat’s milk, soft cheeses and yog, containing their whey, and without intolerance symptoms.

Yes, the carbs in sheep/goat’s milk do affect my bg a little. But it is much less than the same amount of carbs in cow’s milk.

I hope that makes sense. I think I’ve made a right mess of explaining!

 

[LooperCat]

I seem to have an intolerance to the whey in cow’s milk. Whereas sheep and goat’s milk are OK.

As a result of extensive self testing, i now know that i need to avoid the whey in cow’s milk, soft cheeses and yog (because I get too high spikes AND symptoms of intolerance), but can take other cow’s milk products (where the whey is removed, such as butter or hard cheese without symptoms of intolerance).

Yet I can eat sheep and goat’s milk, soft cheeses and yog, containing their whey, and without intolerance symptoms.

Yes, the carbs in sheep/goat’s milk do affect my bg a little. But it is much less than the same amount of carbs in cow’s milk.

I hope that makes sense. I think I’ve made a right mess of explaining!

What sort of allergy/intolerant symptoms do you have? I’m allergic to cow’s milk and it gives my something akin to an asthma attack and have to take ventolin if I inadvertently have any. Yet sheep and goat dairy products are fine...

 

[Brunneria]

What sort of allergy/intolerant symptoms do you have? I’m allergic to cow’s milk and it gives my something akin to an asthma attack and have to take ventolin if I inadvertently have any. Yet sheep and goat dairy products are fine...

The main symptoms are yawns. Massive, teary, jaw breaking yawns for 10-15 mins. I stopped taking milk in tea in public, years ago - after several occasions when people asked me why i was crying.
Also a hint of brain fog that gets foggier and foggier => full blown gaumlessness, depending on size of portion.
I also get v slight breathlessness but that is barely noticeable.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I was just interested as to whether the yoghurt in particular was spiking you, or just the quantity of carbs it contains, if you see the distinction? So if, theoretically, you ate enough eggs, or enough cups of coffee with cream for breakfast to equal the carbs in the yoghurt and berries, would that be just as likely to cause a rise? Basically I'm just wondering if I'll ever manage to work yoghurt into a very low carb regime, as I'd like to do.

Try it and see. Full fat Greek yogurts have very few carbs if you keep portions reasonably low.

I eat a lot of eggs and have never counted any carbs from them.

Yes, I agree with @Brunneria in that our personal tolerances to the same foods differ. I can eat potatoes quite happily, but a slice of Burgen at 11g. per slice spikes me to unacceptable levels, yet a lot less carbs than the spuds. Carb counting needs to be viewed according to the actual food and not taken too literally.