Blood is too well controlled? Getting fat?

I don’t agree with more insulin easier weight gain & I also don’t agree with less carbs less weight gain. I’m 12.6st, I carb cycle. On my high carb days I eat around 200g of carbs. My carb ratio is 1:7 so on them days I can inject around 28 units of novo rapid. I’m still easily & happily losing weight.

What I will say is, the better my control the hungrier I become so unless your strict on your diet or whatever your doing you could just simply eat too much.

I think the point is that with all other factors being the same, and if your ratios are in check, the more you inject the more you need to eat to maintain BG control, therefore more insulin = more weight gain. For example, if i inject 6 units, for me that might cover a meal and dessert. 4 units same meal no dessert!

Most important thing is to live your life how you want to though and being comfortable with all of your ratios, doses and the impact of different foods is the best thing for this.

In Response said:

Why?
As @Medina27 has Type 1, insulin resistance/excess insulin is not a problem.

If you are suggesting reducing carbs as a way to reduce what is eaten, fine but there is no reason to reduce insulin unless you experience insulin resistance.

Sorry @zand I do not mean to focus this on you.
There has been a problem amongst people with Type 1 diabetes being distracted by the very different condition which is type 2 because it is more common.
The usual reason for someone with Type 1 to eat a low carb diet is because they are experiencing problems with blood sugar management which is not what Medina has said.

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or to avoid weight gain

Medina27 said:

Sorry but I think you're wrong

Insulin is literally a fat storing hormone. When you cut carbs, you cut the need for insulin, and cut into fat instead. It's my understanding....

Type 1's are underweight at diagnoses (no insulin to store fat)
Type 2's are overweight at diagnoses (too much fat from insulin, triggering a resistance)

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As someone who was once 18st and now 12.6st & never cut carbs it simply isn’t like that for me at all. Also, I certainly wasn’t underweight when diagnosed type 1. I was a 14st 14 year old so clearly overweight.

Obviously the more you eat, the more insulin you take so the more weight you’ll put on. Not essentially down to the insulin your putting weight on maybe it’s simply because your eating more. Like I said earlier some days I eat 200G of “clean” carbs, clean or not I still have to inject like I normally would.


I had this conversation with my DSN a few year back when wanting to lose weight, was told quite clearly it isn’t the insulin that makes you gain weight. It’s the food your eating.

This is a really interesting thread because in one aspect or another everyone is correct.

I’ll be honest, I’m sort of trying to do the same thing. I lost nearly 2 stone before diagnosis, it was the only ‘good’ thing about being ill. Within 6 months I’ve put it all back on plus more.

I don’t eat anywhere near as much as I did before diagnosis, I’m not starving but being careful about it so that I can maintain control. I immediately cut out sugary drinks, cakes, biscuits, sweets, chocolate & reduced the packs of crisps & take aways. All replaced with low carb options.

Before Christmas I would eat on average 80g carbs, since the new year I’ve reduced this to less than 50g. Since I eat 2g of carbs for breakfast & about 5g for lunch I no longer inject novorapid for these meals.

To be honest this has been much better for my mental health not to mention easier with 4 kids home schooling I often don’t have time to calculate carbs & inject, so knowing I can make myself a 5g salad in 5mins without needing insulin reduces stress.

I don’t think of it as avoiding insulin, that’s just a bonus. I’m trying to eat healthy, loose weight & stay stress free.

If this is the approach you want to take then try it carefully. Just don’t eat tonnes of carbs & not dose for them.

Maco said:

Like I said earlier some days I eat 200G of “clean” carbs,

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200g is not excessive compared to a large proportion of the population eating double and more that often, and not clean carbs either - which might not effect insulin use (I wouldn’t know) but will effect weight gain and loss as good nutrition is higher in clean carbs than in junk carbs.

Medina27 said:

Type 1's are underweight at diagnoses (no insulin to store fat)

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I was not underweight on diagnosis and not are many people with Type 1.
Take care with misleading by stating generalisation and your assumptions as fact.

Daibell said:

or to avoid weight gain

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I eat carbs and have neither gained nor lost weight.
We are all different - eating carbs does not equate to gaining weight for everyone with diabetes.

I suspect that the dark skin is the symptom to take note of, as it is something type twos often see - along with the weight gain.
I suspect that there is a slight imbalance - the good blood glucose might seem to indicate all is well - but I think that the problem is eating more carbs than can be coped with by an individual, and it doesn't really have anything directly to do with diabetes or its consequences.
My diabetes has, for most purposes, gone.
If I eat extra carbs I gain weight. There is quite a precise tipping point, so a really small adjustment 10 gm of carbs, or even 5 gm less a day could start weightloss for me.
A similar small adjustment that would then need a tiny adjustment to the insulin, I think, might do the trick is if will alter the balance - Like it just takes one fat snowflake to start an avalanche.
You ARE supposed to adjust for the carb content of food, I thought.
I am sure that it would make no difference for some, but all the difference to those sensitive to carbs.

I put nearly 3 stone on when I went from injections to a pump, i went from a hba1c of 99 to 63 a lot healthier. If I want to lose weight I do find that reducing my carbs helps as I require less insulin however I have also been prescribed Metformin to help with resistance and it is also fairly common for some type 1’s to also be resistant

In Response said:

I was not underweight on diagnosis and not are many people with Type 1.
Take care with misleading by stating generalisation and your assumptions as fact.

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Interestingly, I unintentionally lost weight I didn't need or afford to loose prior to diagnosis as a kid..
So it may possibly be due to how fast the T1 onset? (As there is dangerously no insulin to utilise the BG. The body draws on "reserves" of fat & even muscle tissue.)
Unintentional weight loss is still one of the markers (along with the "usual suspects" & BGs) regarding T1 diagnosis.

@Jaylee - I guess we are talking at cross purposes. Weightloss does not necessarily mean underweight.

In Response said:

@Jaylee - I guess we are talking at cross purposes. Weightloss does not necessarily mean underweight.

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The OP has clearly referenced one potential marker for pre DXT1.
You have highlighted this was not the case for you.

Let's not derail the topics on @Medina27 's personal goal of a safe body image tweak.

@Medina27
Thanks for starting this thread. I already knew that skin tags were a sign of insulin resistance, but I didn't know about darker skin being a sign too.

Medina27 said:

Hi guys.here is my update: Some of this is dangerous so please understand the risks involved. It's been interesting though!

I've been almost zero carb for a week. I've had amazing weight loss, perfectly controlled blood levels, increased insulin sensitivity (only requiring about 4 or 5 units of background per day) and a big reduction in waistline

However, as a Type 1, the big problem is the ketones. There's no way around it. We need a bunch of carbs/insulin to stop our bodies from entering a weird starvation mode, and boy I experienced it

So even though my blood was PERFECT I was still entering ketoacidosis. My urine suggested. So I ended the diet and introduced more carbs/insulin, despite the other benefits I was getting

For now, I'm on low carb instead of "almost zero carb", and have learned some big lessons

Hope this thread and my story has been useful and thanks everyone for their responses in it

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If your BG levels are normal and you have been able to reduce basal to such small level, then I am not convinced that you have experienced dangerous levels of ketoacidosis - urine sticks are very inaccurate, if you like all the other effects of your zero carb diet (all sound positive), then maybe invest in a blood ketone meter to get a clearer idea. Also stabilising ketone metabolism takes time - ideally a 6-8 week experiment to really understand your personal response. Only then will your liver be optimised for ketone metabolism. But 100% you need to be comfortable for you for your approach.

Medina27 said:

Hi guys.here is my update: Some of this is dangerous so please understand the risks involved. It's been interesting though!

I've been almost zero carb for a week. I've had amazing weight loss, perfectly controlled blood levels, increased insulin sensitivity (only requiring about 4 or 5 units of background per day) and a big reduction in waistline

However, as a Type 1, the big problem is the ketones. There's no way around it. Type 1's need a bunch of carbs/insulin to stop our bodies from entering a weird starvation mode, and boy I experienced it

So even though my blood was PERFECT I was still entering ketoacidosis. My urine suggested. So I ended the diet and introduced more carbs/insulin, despite the other benefits I was getting

For now, I'm on low carb instead of "almost zero carb", and have learned some big lessons

Hope this thread and my story has been useful and thanks everyone for their responses in it

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Hi,

If you were fasting with or minimising carbs for a length of time with normal parameter BGs, the ketones you had would have been what's called "nutritional Ketosis."
A natural process.

However, if the BGs had been abnormally high.? The ketone presence (whatever the diet.) would have been cause for alarm.

Medina27 said:

@Jaylee @oldgreymare

I read a science journal suggesting Type 1's can't maintain "beneficial Ketosis" because of a negative feedback loop from such small insulin levels will mean no energy can enter the cells (or something like that) and this will eventually become dangerous. So I chickened out when my ketone levels became darker & darker (despite perfect glucose control)

All this info was VERY hard to find btw and my diabetic nurses didn't seem too informed either. So I basically had to experiment on myself

Like I said. I'm on low carb right now, with therapeutic levels of insulin. And that seems to be okay

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Can you cite this article?
With the benefit of a PhD in physiology, I never pay much attention to a single research report, especially as the experimental design for nutrition in humans is typically inadequate. When you say your ketone levels were darker and darker I assume you are using urine strips - better than nothing, but hideously inaccurate re blood ketones. If you can keep your blood glucose levels consistently to normal levels, high ketones won't be seriously dangerous, but also will take at least 6-8 weeks to stabilise to the point where they are driving reduction of liver fat, then to be followed by reduction of other body fat/inflammatory levels. It's a journey.