brussel sprouts

Granny_grump_ said:

What are nightshade veggies?

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Hi Kristin251 Don't think I can cope with all the restrictions of what I can and can't eat it's too much to take in! Feeling completely deflated at the moment much of my vegetables I cannot have some of the protein is a no no grains etc etc. Don't know how you and your mum cope with it all, I would have to do all the working out myself and well I am not usually a defeatist but there has you said so much to read about it all.K

I had brussels sprouts today. Cooked for about ten minutes, put on plate, cheap-ass cream-cheese with herbs and bacon on top. Yummy! Two small gurnards (I can take last weeks fresh fish home from work for free on mondays. Cleaned and froze them) on the side. I think I just ate dinner for less than 1 euro, wow!

Granny_grump_ said:

Hi Kristin251 Don't think I can cope with all the restrictions of what I can and can't eat it's too much to take in! Feeling completely deflated at the moment much of my vegetables I cannot have some of the protein is a no no grains etc etc. Don't know how you and your mum cope with it all, I would have to do all the working out myself and well I am not usually a defeatist but there has you said so much to read about it all.K

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Nightshades are potato tomato eggplant and peppers. Worst foods for aches and pains. I know, all too limiting but I treat food as energy and eat what makes me feel good. Pian and suffering don’t work.

I studied nutrition for years before D and feel beggrg than 25 years ago. To me, it’s just food. I like it all so I eat what works and skip the rest.

Grateful said:

What is your advice for limiting kidney stones? I had never had them until this year when I went LCLF like you.

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From my pre-diagnosis days, main one I was told was proper hydration. Tips for that were urine colour and ability to make spit, and also high fat or high protein could complicate that, ie an Atkins-type diet without good hydration could increase the risk of stones & gout. But that also depended on physiology and exactly what went into the diet. I guess like many diets, they need to be tuned to an individual.

But on that note, I like Kristin251's suggestion of lettuce wraps. I'd relied on tortilla wraps for making fast food, and lettuce sounds like a fun substitute.

Granny_grump_ said:

Hi Kristin251 Don't think I can cope with all the restrictions of what I can and can't eat it's too much to take in! Feeling completely deflated at the moment much of my vegetables I cannot have some of the protein is a no no grains etc etc. Don't know how you and your mum cope with it all, I would have to do all the working out myself and well I am not usually a defeatist but there has you said so much to read about it all.K

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This is also why I just keep things simple. Too much anxiety and fear or food. I know avocado works for me and I know protein works for me. So I base my meals around those two things. Then I add some veggies that I have learned do or don’t work. I have. A very simple routine now and the fear and anxiety are as gone as they can be. Some would call my diet limited but loads of people eat the same thing for bf and lunch everyday, as do I. I just mix up my proteins. I also bulk cook lots of protein such as rare lamb chops, chicken, turkey, rare beef. Then I have canned tuna and salmon and frozen fish and shrimp. I can’t deal with all the planning and cooking and thinking about what I can and can’t eat.

That being said, I don’t like achy creaking joints and muscles and I don’t like being tired. So I removed nightshades and grains as well as dairy. Problem solved. Then for stones I removed dark leafy greens and added lemon water. If I eat anything with nightshades I wake up achy or get leg/foot cramps. Even the little bit of paprika in a sausage.

So that leaves me with a variety of proteins, healthy natural fats and veggies. IMO, pretty much the healthies diet there is, for everyone. All the extras are just that, extras.

We can’t be perfect but every little bit in the right direction helps. It just take a little initial thinking Andy planning

I hope you feel better and I’m sorry if I’m bugging you down. Just sharing my experience hoping to help in some small way

Grateful said:

Thanks, it does help! I have been drinking lemon juice too, apparently it is important to get enough citric acid. I had already eliminated the spinach, and greatly increased fluid intake. Now I am giving up the nuts and hoping for the best. My last stone was a nasty piece of work and produced pain, in three separate places, as it passed through, over a period of three weeks. It was about 6mm (quarter of an inch) and shard-like so it is not surprising it was painful.

My diet is quite similar to yours except I eat a lot! Probably more than in my pre-diagnosis days, although obviously the food is completely different. Recently I have been losing weight again, probably because of a combination of stress/illness passing that kidney stone, and then giving up nuts, upon which I was snacking liberally all day. I am trying to replace them with olives and more cheese.

My understanding of how kidney stones form is that what matters is the proportion of calcium and oxalate in your diet, rather than the absolute quantities. I have been taking a daily calcium supplement pill (because of a history of bone fractures) so I wondered whether that was the "culprit" but apparently there is nothing wrong with calcium, or oxalate, per se -- it is just a question of not getting them out of whack with each other.

But all of the above is based on what I read online. I will see if the kidney doctor has anything additional to say when I see him next month. They are doing an ultrasound, although I am not sure what that reveals (when I had my first kidney stone, the ultrasound was negative for ks; they only confirmed it with a CAT scan of all things).

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My stones were 11 and 13 mm. Sittting ontop Of each other and blocking my ureter. You can imagine I had a nasty kidney infection too!

I was told to eat a calcium rich diet and not to take supplements as they are too big of a hit at one time. Calcium is best absorbed slowly through food. So salmon it is haha. I was also told to only eat 4-6 oz protein per day divided as protein taxes the kidneys. It also increases calcium oxalate and uric acid. The lemon water is to flush the liver and kidneys. Which is why it’s often advised to drink lemon water in the morning before food. Also to eat low purine foods
The highest oxalate nuts are walnuts and pecans. Pistachios and macadamia the lowest if that helps.
And if you like wine, it reduces stone formation by up to 50%!

How’s kicking coffee going?

Grateful said:

Thanks, it does help! I have been drinking lemon juice too, apparently it is important to get enough citric acid. I had already eliminated the spinach, and greatly increased fluid intake. Now I am giving up the nuts and hoping for the best. My last stone was a nasty piece of work and produced pain, in three separate places, as it passed through, over a period of three weeks. It was about 6mm (quarter of an inch) and shard-like so it is not surprising it was painful.

My diet is quite similar to yours except I eat a lot! Probably more than in my pre-diagnosis days, although obviously the food is completely different. Recently I have been losing weight again, probably because of a combination of stress/illness passing that kidney stone, and then giving up nuts, upon which I was snacking liberally all day. I am trying to replace them with olives and more cheese.

My understanding of how kidney stones form is that what matters is the proportion of calcium and oxalate in your diet, rather than the absolute quantities. I have been taking a daily calcium supplement pill (because of a history of bone fractures) so I wondered whether that was the "culprit" but apparently there is nothing wrong with calcium, or oxalate, per se -- it is just a question of not getting them out of whack with each other.

But all of the above is based on what I read online. I will see if the kidney doctor has anything additional to say when I see him next month. They are doing an ultrasound, although I am not sure what that reveals (when I had my first kidney stone, the ultrasound was negative for ks; they only confirmed it with a CAT scan of all things).

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https://draxe.com/5-kidney-stone-natural-remedies-fast-relief/

Apparently avocados are good for stones too haha. At least I’m doing something right.

I did see coffee and sweet potato being bad. I used to eat sweet pot at DX. Also saw calcium supps are bad. And a few other odds and ends.

Kristin251 said:

The highest oxalate nuts are walnuts and pecans. Pistachios and macadamia the lowest if that helps.

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I was guzzling pecans and macadamias, so I guess if I resume nuts, go for macadamias (I like them, but they are pricey!). I used to eat a lot of Brazil nuts too, until I read about selenium poisoning!!! Pistachios: Relatively high-carb, IIRC (I absolutely love them and they were a big favorite before the T2D diagnosis).

Kristin251 said:

And if you like wine, it reduces stone formation by up to 50%!

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Excellent. I do drink wine but nowadays, in extreme moderation (180ml per day).

That sounds like quite an ordeal that you had, with the two relatively large stones on top of each other. I feel a bit sheepish in comparison, with my recent 6mm one. It started in the kidney area, with pain bad enough that I briefly considered heading for the emergency room. At the time, I was told by the kidney doctor that it was almost certainly *not* a stone because it was not visible on the CAT scan done a few months ago. So I was left with worrying about "what the dickens is this abdominal pain then? and so was my PCP (UK translation: GP).

A week later it moved to the bladder, quite painful but not quite as bad. Finally it ended up stuck in my urethra (quite close to the end of it, I will not draw a picture) and pain in that part of the anatomy continued for a week, not just when using bathroom but all the time, and with a constant urge to pee. When it came out the other end and I saw the shard-like appearance, I was not surprised it had been painful. (Sorry, I know, way Too Much Information.) The whole process took three weeks.

Kristin251 said:

How’s kicking coffee going?

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I am waiting for the right day to try it out. (Another way of saying that I keep putting it off.) As I said elsewhere, that might be even harder than giving up carbs!

Grateful said:

I was guzzling pecans and macadamias, so I guess if I resume nuts, go for macadamias (I like them, but they are pricey!). I used to eat a lot of Brazil nuts too, until I read about selenium poisoning!!! Pistachios: Relatively high-carb, IIRC (I absolutely love them and they were a big favorite before the T2D diagnosis).



Excellent. I do drink wine but nowadays, in extreme moderation (180ml per day).

That sounds like quite an ordeal that you had, with the two relatively large stones on top of each other. I feel a bit sheepish in comparison, with my recent 6mm one. It started in the kidney area, with pain bad enough that I briefly considered heading for the emergency room. At the time, I was told by the kidney doctor that it was almost certainly *not* a stone because it was not visible on the CAT scan done a few months ago. So I was left with worrying about "what the dickens is this abdominal pain then? and so was my PCP (UK translation: GP).

A week later it moved to the bladder, quite painful but not quite as bad. Finally it ended up stuck in my urethra (quite close to the end of it, I will not draw a picture) and pain in that part of the anatomy continued for a week, not just when using bathroom but all the time, and with a constant urge to pee. When it came out the other end and I saw the shard-like appearance, I was not surprised it had been painful. (Sorry, I know, way Too Much Information.) The whole process took three weeks.



I am waiting for the right day to try it out. (Another way of saying that I keep putting it off.) As I said elsewhere, that might be even harder than giving up carbs!

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I’m in the US. Wisconsin. Both my kids are in the Dallas area

Macs and pecans are my fav too. I get them at Costco or Trader Joe’s. A bit less expensive. Costco is $18 for 24 oz. So in moderation I eat them
I tend to have one Brazil ( not a fav) when I eat fish as the selenium chelates the heavy metals and carries them out.
Love pistachios but as you say higher carb.

Sounds like you had quite an ordeal too!

Ah yes, when the timing is right. It took a long time for my timing to be right.

Kristin251 said:

I’m in the US. Wisconsin. Both my kids are in the Dallas area.

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Thanks. I know you are in the U.S. but added that PCP-to-GP translation for UK-based readers being faced with yet another medical acronym. By the way, for UK readers, that stands for "Primary Care Physician" and under a typical U.S. health insurance s/he is the gateway to all medical care, including insurance referrals to specialists and so forth. I usually just say "GP" on this forum and the equivalence is fairly close!

We buy the nuts at Trader Joe's as they are much cheaper there than in the other supermarkets. We are not members of Costco and the store is quite a long way away ... but that is a good price, considering.

Grateful said:

Thanks. I know you are in the U.S. but added that PCP-to-GP translation for UK-based readers being faced with yet another medical acronym. By the way, for UK readers, that stands for "Primary Care Physician" and under a typical U.S. health insurance s/he is the gateway to all medical care, including insurance referrals to specialists and so forth. I usually just say "GP" on this forum and the equivalence is fairly close!

We buy the nuts at Trader Joe's as they are much cheaper there than in the other supermarkets. We are not members of Costco and the store is quite a long way away ... but that is a good price, considering.

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Haha. When I first got on this site I used CHO for cholesterol and UK is carbs.
Then recently there was a thread about measuring cups and @Bluetit1802 pointed out they only use cups as bra sizes !! I’m still getting the hang of it but no idea what a kilo is compaired to a pound. Lol.

As rough guide, 2 pounds = 1 kilo

Kristin251 said:

This is also why I just keep things simple. Too much anxiety and fear or food. I know avocado works for me and I know protein works for me. So I base my meals around those two things. Then I add some veggies that I have learned do or don’t work. I have. A very simple routine now and the fear and anxiety are as gone as they can be. Some would call my diet limited but loads of people eat the same thing for bf and lunch everyday, as do I. I just mix up my proteins. I also bulk cook lots of protein such as rare lamb chops, chicken, turkey, rare beef. Then I have canned tuna and salmon and frozen fish and shrimp. I can’t deal with all the planning and cooking and thinking about what I can and can’t eat.

That being said, I don’t like achy creaking joints and muscles and I don’t like being tired. So I removed nightshades and grains as well as dairy. Problem solved. Then for stones I removed dark leafy greens and added lemon water. If I eat anything with nightshades I wake up achy or get leg/foot cramps. Even the little bit of paprika in a sausage.

So that leaves me with a variety of proteins, healthy natural fats and veggies. IMO, pretty much the healthies diet there is, for everyone. All the extras are just that, extras.

We can’t be perfect but every little bit in the right direction helps. It just take a little initial thinking Andy planning

I hope you feel better and I’m sorry if I’m bugging you down. Just sharing my experience hoping to help in some small way

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Hi Kristin251 you are definitely not bugging are bogging me down I am so glad of the information you have given me, it was just looking at all the do's and don't have and not have's I just panicked and didn't know which way to go,you are probably right in restricting your foods to just a few choices without complicating the diet with too many choices has I tend to do,just because I like different meals. So I will take another look at what foods to eat and what to leave alone and give things a try. So anything else you can pass on please do. It's an age thing I think I just panic at lots of things now,don't worry when I calm down I can be more rational and work think things through better. Best Wishes Kathleen

Grateful said:

I was guzzling pecans and macadamias, so I guess if I resume nuts, go for macadamias (I like them, but they are pricey!). I used to eat a lot of Brazil nuts too, until I read about selenium poisoning!!! Pistachios: Relatively high-carb, IIRC (I absolutely love them and they were a big favorite before the T2D diagnosis).



Excellent. I do drink wine but nowadays, in extreme moderation (180ml per day).

That sounds like quite an ordeal that you had, with the two relatively large stones on top of each other. I feel a bit sheepish in comparison, with my recent 6mm one. It started in the kidney area, with pain bad enough that I briefly considered heading for the emergency room. At the time, I was told by the kidney doctor that it was almost certainly *not* a stone because it was not visible on the CAT scan done a few months ago. So I was left with worrying about "what the dickens is this abdominal pain then? and so was my PCP (UK translation: GP).

A week later it moved to the bladder, quite painful but not quite as bad. Finally it ended up stuck in my urethra (quite close to the end of it, I will not draw a picture) and pain in that part of the anatomy continued for a week, not just when using bathroom but all the time, and with a constant urge to pee. When it came out the other end and I saw the shard-like appearance, I was not surprised it had been painful. (Sorry, I know, way Too Much Information.) The whole process took three weeks.



I am waiting for the right day to try it out. (Another way of saying that I keep putting it off.) As I said elsewhere, that might be even harder than giving up carbs!

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Hi Kristin251 I was having between 6/8 Large cups of coffee everyday now got it to 2/3 and substituted coffee for fruit or herbal teas I'm reading yours and Grateful posts and trying to work out from some of the foods you both eat what I could introduce into my diet. I thought wine was a no no!hat are nightshades? K

Granny_grump_ said:

I thought wine was a no no!

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If you are Type 2, diet-controlled and not taking drugs, I have seen no evidence of any problem with wine. Except for perhaps certain dessert wines, wine is low-carb, especially dry wines. And especially if consumed only in moderation. By the way Champagne is great!

More (really good!!) info here: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/alcohol.

My doctor tried to dissuade me from alcohol, including wine, objecting to "the sugars in wine" and "the empty calories" but he dropped his objections when he saw my plunging HbA1c even though I was drinking wine as part of the low-carb diet.

(I don't know much about the advisability of wine for those on diabetes drugs. And I know that those taking insulin have their own protocol and cautions regarding alcohol.)

Grateful said:

If you are Type 2, diet-controlled and not taking drugs, I have seen no evidence of any problem with wine. Except for perhaps certain dessert wines, wine is low-carb, especially dry wines. And especially if consumed only in moderation. By the way Champagne is great!

More info here: https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/alcohol.

My doctor tried to dissuade me from alcohol, including wine, objecting to "the sugars in wine" and "the empty calories" but he dropped his objections when he saw my plunging HbA1c even though I was drinking wine.

(I don't know much about the advisability of wine for those on diabetes drugs. And I know that those taking insulin have their own protocol and cautions regarding alcohol.)

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Hi Grateful I'm not on any diabetic meds just diet controlled,I mentioned wine has both my GP and at the chemist adviced not to have wine!K Must give the Champagne a try this Christmas! Ha ha!

Granny_grump_ said:

Hi Grateful I'm not on any diabetic meds just diet controlled,I mentioned wine has both my GP and at the chemist adviced not to have wine!K

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Far be it for me to give you advice on this, since perhaps they had other reasons to give that advice (other than just T2D).

As I said, my doctor gave me the same advice ("no alcohol") initially, but I decided to let him put that in his pipe and smoke it!

(It is, so far, the only part of my doctor's advice that I have ignored.)

I think part of the issue is that doctors assume that people drinking alcohol will lose their inhibitions and then "cheat" by eating the wrong foods. They probably have a point.

Another thing, of course, is that some alcoholic drinks are extremely high in carbs, including beer and quite a lot of cocktails. The dietdoctor link that I provided in my last post has a very good set of examples.

Mike D said:

As rough guide, 2 pounds = 1 kilo

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That’s what I thought but wasn’t sure. Thank you!

Kristin251 said:

That’s what I thought but wasn’t sure. Thank you!

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It's about 2.2. The easiest is just to type "kg to lb" (or vice versa) into Google and a handy calculator appears.

Granny_grump_ said:

Hi Kristin251 I was having between 6/8 Large cups of coffee everyday now got it to 2/3 and substituted coffee for fruit or herbal teas I'm reading yours and Grateful posts and trying to work out from some of the foods you both eat what I could introduce into my diet. I thought wine was a no no!hat are nightshades? K

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I used to drink wine, not always in moderation (oops, gotta have some fun) but it does raise my bs a bit now since insulin. I switched to vodka, because wine was hanging me and I dropped a few pounds vodka does lower my bg so I have to have a small snack, oh darn. Usually just an ounce of Brie melted with buttered pecans and green onions. My fav with my happy hour cocktail. I mix up our appetizer so I’m not eating cheese everyday. Sometimes soft boiled egg chopped with bacon and onion tidbits and a tich of butter. I share with hubby of course. I drink vodka rocks with a splash of water in a martini glass and add a big squeeze of lemon. Just looking after the kidneys!! My doc prefers to tell me no alcohol but he knows I don’t listen.

I can’t remeber if you have stones or just gout? Seems the diets are similar.

I don’t eat the same meals everyday but I do eat the same macros at each meal. Of course avo with all and a variety of protein, then some veggies are added. Bf is typically the same. Lettuce wrap with a turkey or chicken slice and avo smashed in.
Lunch today was cold rare lamb chops with garlic oil, oregano and sage on a small bed of chopped lettuce, with avo chunks, chopped celery, radish and green onion.
Brie for happy hour
Dinner will be either salmon or tuna most likely. Maybe cod.
I use different herbs and spices depending on my mood. Sometimes basil, or mayo or mayo based dressing/ dip ( mixing mayo with mustard, spicy sauce or horseradish. If I want it as salad dressing I just water it down a bit. I also like the mushroom gravy.
The key for me to keep things simple is to put the foods I can’t have away and forget about them Then build with the ones I can and prep. Like precooking and freezing proteins, then when I want to eat them I just decide on my seasonings.
If I want soup I chop up my protein, add some gravy/ broth or both, throw in some herbs and veggies ( fresh or frozen) and heat.

My food list remains the same but I plate them differently. Like lettuce wraps, soup, chopped salad.

Nightshade veggies are tomato, potato, eggplant and all forms of peppers, including paprika in lots of processed meats. I am sure to be achy when I eat them but sometimes I gotta have my spicy mayo.

I completely understand your frustration. Went through it myself but found my foods and routines and it’s very simple now. You will too.