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Can you die from pre-diabetes per se

Discussion in 'Prediabetes' started by Cured!, Jan 25, 2019.

  1. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I didn’t say diabetes was the cause of anything, I said it’s another symptom of hyperinsulinemia. The latest thinking is that hyperinsulinemia is at the heart of many, if not most, of the chronic degenerative ailments that are currently sweeping the globe with increasing prevalence. Diabetes included. If true, that’s a different thing to saying that diabetes is the cause of anything :)
     
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  2. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yes, absolutely.

    Although, for me, having had long-term IR off and on, with the eventual culmination in T2D at a high/dangerous level, now I say I no longer have metabolic syndrome (MetS), according to the various definitions - but I actually have one of the nasty diseases that MetS is actually a set of risk factors FOR. Yeah - diabetes!

    But yes, for me not having MetS any longer is about having a lowered risk for the other nasties that can get you into a grave earlier than you would deem appropriate for your age. And yes, all with producing too much insulin for good health at the base of it. And of course - cardiovascular disease is a really big nasty, and the nasty that is actually what kills about a half of those with diabetes off earlier than we would like. (According to some stats I have seen in my own country - 50% of those with diabetes dying too early, from CVD.) For me this is watching my tendency to belly fat like a hawk (or like a bird watching a cat?), and making sure I am physically fit and relatively strong etc etc. Watching your blood pressure etc etc. I bought my own BP monitor, for instance.

    Recently I had two dear friends stay with me, both who have/had prediabetes. Both of these two, a couple, had a parent who had T2D, one died from CVD. Both are ignoring my words on carbohydrate intolerance, and told me (nicely!) they do not believe 'my' theory on carbs. My womanfriend even read out to me the official lines off the internet when we got into a big convo about it. I was somewhat disturbed, made me realise how really dangerous those official lines are, but I was relieved she finally told me what she really thought, because I won't wonder any longer why they still eating lots of sugar and high carbs. (I had been wondering!) But, imagine my surprise to see both of them getting out their heart and blood pressure tablets (statins and beta blockers I guess?). This combined with my womanfriend's obvious lack of physical fitness. I won't talk about bellies. I said to Herr Svea later, "But don't they realise that it is CVD that can kill? If they have prediabetic levels and already they are on heart and blood pressure pills - well - the high insulin and the glucose is already getting to them!" Well, I have told them, but along with 'my' theory about carbs, I guess they thought the CVD alert was a little light entertainment I made up? (I actually prefer to watch Netflix for entertainment but there you are!)

    So, the short answer to the OP's question is - about health factors making you cop it too early - it's about what illness, and health factors, you have already! Or, all together. With the same or different causes - to how healthy or at risk of too early death you are. And the beauty of it - with metabolic disease - one's health can be greatly improved with changes in food, and physical fitness etc. (It terms of being 'cured' @cured - you did not have an infection that you were cured of, end of story. Metabolism can constantly change.)

    The person who can best discuss your particular possible too early mortality issues with you is of course, your trusty GP, assuming you have a trusty one. Or, learn to interpret your own blood test and other medical test results, or, best imho - do both.
     
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  3. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    I share this opinion, too much circulating insulin is the primary driver of these conditions you mentioned. It's not just causing a single chronic disease, as in t2dm, it's systemic. And it's been ignored for too long by the medical profession, who have wasted billions on trying to prove ridiculous theories like fat causes cvd and 40yrs later they still can't prove it because they have failed to do so every step of the way.

    Imagine if they had of focused that hard on insulin levels and hyperinsulinemia and the root cause of it (high carb diet). Would we still be witnessing this t2dm, obesity, cvd epidemic and every other chronic condition fueled by inflammation today?
     
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  4. cured

    cured · Member

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    Yes, as stated in my post, the root cause of my concern is that a life insurance company has penalised me heavily on the grounds that I have previously been diagnosed with pre-diabetes, despite the fact that at the time of my insurance application my sugar, cholesterol, BMI and other vital health stats were normal and I was not on any medication for diabetes. 18 months later this is still the case.

    The fact that an insurance company believes that I am at risk is a major concern, and my post was an attempt to establish from the Diabetes UK community whether in their experience they may know of some reason that supports the insurance company's claim. I intend to lodge an objection with the Insurance Ombudsman, but before doing so wanted firstly to find out if there were any underlying issues that still put me at risk.
     
  5. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I would think that insurance company risk models in this regard are built on the statistic that everyone with diabetes had prediabetes. Since prediabtes, or even having had it before, puts you at a higher risk of developing diabetes, this is very likely why they decide that you’re a higher risk to them. It may not be fair but to my knowledge this is how insurance companies operate.
     
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  6. Ponchu

    Ponchu · Well-Known Member

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    I do not understand “pre diabetes.”
     
  7. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    My interpretation as a lay person who is classified as such is that it is embryonic Type 2 diabetes. A version of Type 2 if you will. But I stand to be corrected.



    He says as he runs for cover. :D
     
    #27 Listlad, Jan 28, 2019 at 12:58 PM
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  8. Alison Campbell

    Alison Campbell Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    In the UK we need at HBA1C of 42 or above for the classification now although it used to be also based on fasting plasma glucose above 6 or failing an oral glucose tolerence test.

    I'm sad to say I got the "hat trick".
     
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  9. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    Hi @Alison Campbell , looking at your HbA1c stats, although they go back further than mine, they are not so radically different.

    I see you are under the 41/42 threshold but still state that you are prediabetic. Any reason for that? I tend to state I am prediabetic because the difference between 41 and 42 is negligible really.

    I do have what I perceive to be associated symptoms but am not entirely sure they are diabetes related so the picture for me isn’t entirely clear.

    You mentioned Plasma fasting glucose levels and mine were 6.8 mmol/l at the time (within 2 weeks of each other) that my HbA1c was taken. I am not sure what the significance of that is. Looking more closely my medical records state that the 6.8 is abnormal.
     
    #29 Listlad, Jan 28, 2019 at 4:07 PM
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  10. Alison Campbell

    Alison Campbell Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Ok I thought you might not be in the UK as pred levels are different in different places eg US it is 39/40 or 5.8 in old money.

    I was not questioning your status but you question mine.

    Ok there is no prediabetes in remission definition/status and most of the type 2's in remission around here are doing a lot better me so I think pre-d fits. What do you think?
     
  11. Tipetoo

    Tipetoo Type 2 · Expert

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    I was a pre / border line diabetic for years before I finally stepped over the line into T2 territory five years ago.

    I have not died yet...

    Edit: I have put my hba1 results over the last four years in, which are now low enough now for me to claim in remission status. I do however still take Metformin so that probably negates that happening at the moment.

    Disregard the jumbled dates at the botton as the app has bug in it there

    [​IMG]
     
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    #31 Tipetoo, Jan 28, 2019 at 7:53 PM
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  12. Listlad

    Listlad Prediabetes · BANNED

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    Sorry. No I wasn’t questioning your status, just trying to understand things a bit better. And trying to understand my own position bit better. Comparing notes if you like.
     
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  13. Emile_the_rat

    Emile_the_rat Type 1.5 · Well-Known Member

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    Pre-diabetes are not a disease, but just a precursor or warning of developing diabetes in the future.

    So I would say you can die while being pre-diabetic, but being pre-diabetic would not be the cause of death.
     
  14. pixie1

    pixie1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I consider my high blood pressure and diabetes T2 diet controlled as two seperate conditions and not related, only a coincidence.

    The question can you die because of being pre diabetic. No, statistics are only number crunching and can be manipulated to whatever people want them to mean.

    Insurance companies will say and do whatever they want, regardless. if they don't want to pay out they won't. Even though two seperate ailments are not connected.
     
  15. pixie1

    pixie1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ive just re read your post cured. I still stand by my questioning the rationale of being prescribed metformin as being diagnosed as pre diabetic. I don't know which country you are from, because it is not standard practice in the UK. The question of dying through being pre diabetic or having T1/2. The answer to that is no, you don't.

    With re reading your post. You are worried about something going to happen to you and need some reassurance. People who develop complications through their diabetes, is because of lack of control.
     
    #35 pixie1, Mar 26, 2019 at 8:56 AM
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2019
  16. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hypertension is very much part of metabolic syndrome.
     
  17. pixie1

    pixie1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Like I say, it has nothing to do with my diabetes. Otherwise everyone with hypertension would develop diabetes. One of my parents was hypertensive, did not develop diabetes nor had diabetes in the family.

    I developed gestational diabetes, now I know there is a higher potential later on to develop T2.
    Just because the so called experts say this that and another, dies not mean its correct.
     
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