Can you die from pre-diabetes per se

[Cured!]

7 years ago I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes and prescribed metformin which effectively controlled my blood sugar. 18 months ago I changed my lifestyle from being a lacto vegetarian (for 35 years) and doing no exercise to the Patrick Holford diet (hi protein, low carb, low fat) which is specifically designed to monitor GL, and to being highly active, walking on average 3.5 kms twice per day.

I have reversed my pre-diabetes thru my new diet and exercise regimen. My vital health statistics are all normal, and I am on no medication for diabetes. My Blood sugar level is 31, my cholesterol 4.1%, my BP 122-70-72, my BMI 25.7 (slightly high but working on it). I understand the importance of maintaining my diet and exercise regimen to avoid developing pre-diabetes again. I understand that a person can die from T2 and T1

My question is: Can a person die from pre-diabetes per se?

 

[pixie1]

I wouldn't of thought so, I'm wondering why you were put on metformin for pre diabetes,I would have thought that would gave done more harm than good, when a change of diet and lifestyle would have done. could be wrong.

Complications arises when diabetes becomes high and uncontrollable. Or in some cases to low.

 

[Cured!]

Most doctors automatically prescribe metformin as a preventative measure when you are diagnosed with pre-diabetes because it effectively prevents you from developing T2

 

[bulkbiker]

Don't you think it would be hard to "die" from a condition that you don't have yet? The "pre" is there for a reason..
So far as I am aware metformin is rarely prescribed for pre-diabetes although that would depend on the GP of course as there seems to be no single standard of care applied in the UK. I was informed (by phone) that I had pre-diabetes and told to "lose weight" no explanation of causes, how to lose weight or probable outcomes. I fear it was the receptionist at the GP surgery who made the call.

 

[DCUKMod]

Hi @Cured! - Well done on your health improvements.

To your original question, my general feeling would be not, but like all blanket statements and rules, there are exceptions - picking up a bad foot ulcer, leading onto other conditions, or CVD or whatever.

An a sitation where an individual has multiple co-morbidities, then they pass away, it can be difficult to absolutely pinpoint the exact cause.

I think for all of us the message is quite simply to try to keep ourselves in as decent a condition as we can, given our personal hand of life's cards.

Again, well done on your changes.

 

[DCUKMod]

In my observation @Cured! very few with pre-diabetes are prescribed Metformin. Of course, that could just mean I haven't encountered them,

In some instances female patients are prescribed Metformin to help with polycystic ovaries, but even that isn't for the majority, to my knowledge.

 

[Prem51]

Most doctors automatically prescribe metformin as a preventative measure when you are diagnosed with pre-diabetes because it effectively prevents you from developing T2

Welcome to the forum @Cured! Well done on your health improvements. I don't think doctors in the UK usually prescribe metaformin for pre-diabetes. Mine didn't, and I was only told I was pre-diabetic one year before I became diabetic. I had apparently been pre-diabetic for at least two years prior to that - I only found that out when I got access to my test records. When I was told I was pre-diabetic I wasn't told what it meant or what I should do.
Even when I was diagnosed as T2 I wasn't prescribed meds. This year at my GP review after annual HbA1c I asked if I should be prescribed Metaformin as my level was creeping up (46), in the pre-diabetic range. But I was told I didn't need it as I am 'well controlled'.

 

[Guzzler]

Metformin alone cannot imo prevent T2.

 

[Mbaker]

My understanding is that complications can applicable to pre-diabetics also. I am not sure / remember if these are mild or could be more severe.

I read recently that a third with pre-diabetes go on to develope full Type 2. It would be prudent to lead as best a lifestyle geared towards healthy outcomes as possible.

 

[Member496333]

7 years ago I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes and prescribed metformin which effectively controlled my blood sugar. 18 months ago I changed my lifestyle from being a lacto vegetarian (for 35 years) and doing no exercise to the Patrick Holford diet (hi protein, low carb, low fat) which is specifically designed to monitor GL, and to being highly active, walking on average 3.5 kms twice per day.

I have reversed my pre-diabetes thru my new diet and exercise regimen. My vital health statistics are all normal, and I am on no medication for diabetes. My Blood sugar level is 31, my cholesterol 4.1%, my BP 122-70-72, my BMI 25.7 (slightly high but working on it). I understand the importance of maintaining my diet and exercise regimen to avoid developing pre-diabetes again. I understand that a person can die from T2 and T1

My question is: Can a person die from pre-diabetes per se?

Time kills us all. During the meanwhilst you seem to be doing ok. Nothing to worry about

 

[Pinkorchid]

7 years ago I was diagnosed with pre-diabetes and prescribed metformin which effectively controlled my blood sugar. 18 months ago I changed my lifestyle from being a lacto vegetarian (for 35 years) and doing no exercise to the Patrick Holford diet (hi protein, low carb, low fat) which is specifically designed to monitor GL, and to being highly active, walking on average 3.5 kms twice per day.

I have reversed my pre-diabetes thru my new diet and exercise regimen. My vital health statistics are all normal, and I am on no medication for diabetes. My Blood sugar level is 31, my cholesterol 4.1%, my BP 122-70-72, my BMI 25.7 (slightly high but working on it). I understand the importance of maintaining my diet and exercise regimen to avoid developing pre-diabetes again. I understand that a person can die from T2 and T1

My question is: Can a person die from pre-diabetes per se?

Not die from prediabetes but complications can happen from uncontrolled diabetes but it sounds like you have got that well under control so what you are doing is working

 

[Tazbo]

Don't you think it would be hard to "die" from a condition that you don't have yet? The "pre" is there for a reason..
So far as I am aware metformin is rarely prescribed for pre-diabetes although that would depend on the GP of course as there seems to be no single standard of care applied in the UK. I was informed (by phone) that I had pre-diabetes and told to "lose weight" no explanation of causes, how to lose weight or probable outcomes. I fear it was the receptionist at the GP surgery who made the call.

That's how got told as well

 

[Alison Campbell]

Don't you think it would be hard to "die" from a condition that you don't have yet? The "pre" is there for a reason..

Don't agree with this, we know that high levels of insulin is damaging to the organs including the heart. Lots of data to suggest that pre d's and newly diagnosed still have the beta cell capacity to pump out huge amounts of insulin to keep blood sugar closer to normal.

https://www.bmj.com/content/355/bmj.i5953
Prediabetes, defined as impaired glucose tolerance, impaired fasting glucose, or raised HbA1c, was associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. The health risk might be increased in people with a fasting glucose concentration as low as 5.6 mmol/L or HbA1c of 39 mmol/mol.

 

[bulkbiker]

Don't agree with this, we know that high levels of insulin is damaging to the organs including the heart. Lots of data to suggest that pre d's and newly diagnosed still have the beta cell capacity to pump out huge amounts of insulin to keep blood sugar closer to normal.

https://www.bmj.com/content/355/bmj.i5953
Prediabetes, defined as impaired glucose tolerance, impaired fasting glucose, or raised HbA1c, was associated with an increased risk of cardiovascular disease. The health risk might be increased in people with a fasting glucose concentration as low as 5.6 mmol/L or HbA1c of 39 mmol/mol.

Surely that then implies that the HbA1c level of 42 mmol/m is too high and pre-diabetes should be diagnosed at HbA1c of 39 or more? Or even T2 diabetes diagnosed at that level? May also be a good indicator that Insulin/c-peptide should be tested before HbA1c?
Edit to add but you still won't die from pre-diabetes but from heart disease?

 

[Member496333]

Really the world needs to start testing insulin more commonly. Using HbA1c to diagnose diabetes is like closing the stable door after the horse has already bolted. Insulin testing could catch metabolic dysfunction several years ahead of any glucose abnormalities.

Worth remembering also that blood glucose doesn’t tell the whole story. It’s the total sugar in the body that counts when it comes to complications, and huge amounts of insulin can keep pushing glucose into nerves, tissues and organs for a very long time before blood glucose begins to rise significantly.

 

[pixie1]

Problem with data, it can be manipulated to suit what ever needs people want. It doesn't show the whole story. Exactly the same with research, majority of has to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Everything written in the BMJ cannot be taken seriously. When words are used, may, possibly, means they do not know, therefore they do not have solid evidence, its still a theory and looking for data to fit the theory. To me it shows there is still a lack of understanding, knowledge on diabetes and how the body works.
We have to remember conditions exists without diabetes. Cardiac, cvd and so on.
Fasting and A1c are two different entities and needed to be treated as so.
Pre diabetes as far as I'm aware is high normal, if they think it causes damage then the ceiling needs to be lowered,, however this narrows the margin, therefore the floor needs to be lowered. All it tells me that they are bkaming everything on diabetes, when its not necessary the case.

 

[Member496333]

Problem with data, it can be manipulated to suit what ever needs people want. It doesn't show the whole story. Exactly the same with research, majority of has to be taken with a pinch of salt.
Everything written in the BMJ cannot be taken seriously. When words are used, may, possibly, means they do not know, therefore they do not have solid evidence, its still a theory and looking for data to fit the theory. To me it shows there is still a lack of understanding, knowledge on diabetes and how the body works.
We have to remember conditions exists without diabetes. Cardiac, cvd and so on.
Fasting and A1c are two different entities and needed to be treated as so.
Pre diabetes as far as I'm aware is high normal, if they think it causes damage then the ceiling needs to be lowered,, however this narrows the margin, therefore the floor needs to be lowered. All it tells me that they are bkaming everything on diabetes, when its not necessary the case.

Although in many respects diabetes is just another symptom of metabolic syndrome. Apparently along with chronic inflammation, CVD & CHD, Alzheimer’s disease, hypercholesterolemia, hypertension. The list goes on. Basically pretty much all of the modern non communicable degenerative ailments. The etiology of which is now increasingly believed to be hyperinsulinemia. And prediabetes, at its core, is hyperinsulinemia. For clarity I am most certainly not suggesting that “prediabetes” will necessarily kill, but it’s most certainly not “safe”. It’s the precursor to major problems in the future if not taken seriously.

As always, only in my opinion.

 

[cured]

Don't you think it would be hard to "die" from a condition that you don't have yet? The "pre" is there for a reason..
So far as I am aware metformin is rarely prescribed for pre-diabetes although that would depend on the GP of course as there seems to be no single standard of care applied in the UK. I was informed (by phone) that I had pre-diabetes and told to "lose weight" no explanation of causes, how to lose weight or probable outcomes. I fear it was the receptionist at the GP surgery who made the call.

Yes I do believe that it would be hard to die from a condition that I do not have. The definition of pre-diabetes is that you have raised blood sugar but that it is not yet high enough to be classed as diabetes. I have not read in any medical journal or diabetes website that you can die of pre-diabetes. However, life insurance companies maintain that someone with pre-diabetes is at risk and hence the reason for my question. I agree that pre-diabetes is a risk if it is left untreated because it will develop into T2 that can then cause CVD, kidney and other organ failure which could be terminal. What I am trying to find out is whether anyone has seen a statement from a reputable authority on diabetes confirming that one is not at risk of dying if their blood sugar level remains below being classified as diabetes.

I was prescribed metformin as a result of being diagnosed to have pre-diabetes. This solution treats the symptoms not the cause. I was never informed that if I changed my diet and exercised regularly I could normalise my blood sugar levels and come off the medication. The recent TV documentary Britain's Fat Fight (in Newcastle) evidenced how how doctors would not address obesity with their patients!!! (Trust me I am a doctor!)

 

[DCUKMod]

Yes I do believe that it would be hard to die from a condition that I do not have. The definition of pre-diabetes is that you have raised blood sugar but that it is not yet high enough to be classed as diabetes. I have not read in any medical journal or diabetes website that you can die of pre-diabetes. However, life insurance companies maintain that someone with pre-diabetes is at risk and hence the reason for my question. I agree that pre-diabetes is a risk if it is left untreated because it will develop into T2 that can then cause CVD, kidney and other organ failure which could be terminal. What I am trying to find out is whether anyone has seen a statement from a reputable authority on diabetes confirming that one is not at risk of dying if their blood sugar level remains below being classified as diabetes.

I was prescribed metformin as a result of being diagnosed to have pre-diabetes. This solution treats the symptoms not the cause. I was never informed that if I changed my diet and exercised regularly I could normalise my blood sugar levels and come off the medication. The recent TV documentary Britain's Fat Fight (in Newcastle) evidenced how how doctors would not address obesity with their patients!!! (Trust me I am a doctor!)

Cured, I cannot thinkof anyone, anywhere who would give you an assurance that you (or anyone else) will not die as a result of a medical condition. The exception might be that I might be able to find some willing to assure me I will not die from testicular cancer. My confidence there is that I am female.

You mention life assurance in your post; is that at the root of your concerns? Have you been offered ammended terms by a life house for something you wanted?

 

[pixie1]

Although in many respects diabetes is just another symptom of metabolic syndrome. Apparently along with chronic inflammation, CVD & CHD, Alzheimer’s disease, hypercholesterolemia, hypertension. The list goes on. Basically pretty much all of the modern non communicable degenerative ailments. The etiology of which is now increasingly believed to be hyperinsulinemia. And prediabetes, at its core, is hyperinsulinemia. For clarity I am most certainly not suggesting that “prediabetes” will necessarily kill, but it’s most certainly not “safe”. It’s the precursor to major problems in the future if not taken seriously.

As always, only in my opinion.

I've worked in the health care sector for 30 years, I've looked after people with conditions as mentioned above in different settings, I've very rarely come across people with diabetes as the cause of their condition. to me its a new phenomenon, I'm looking after more people who do have diabetes. im saying that these conditions existed well before diabete arose. Many people who developed Alzheimer's in fact have been fit, active, No reason for them to develop the condition.