Carb/Insulin Ratio

Rokaab

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But the idea is too use as less as possible insulin, right?
No, for T1's at least - the idea is to use the right amount for you to keep your sugar levels as good as possible.
I have seen ratios of between 1unit:2 carbs up to 1unit:50 carbs when i went to a carb counting course last year - everyone is different.

Edit: for T2's things are different - they may often have too much insulin, but this thread is in the T1 section of the forums.
Edit2: typos - crabs had snuck into the comment!
 
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Norman83

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No, for T1's at least - the idea is to use the right amount for you to keep your sugar levels as good as possible.
I have seen ratios of between 1unit:2 crabs up to 1unit:50 crabs when i went to a carb counting course last year - everyone is different.

Thank you,R. At least I’m not alone
 

porl69

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But the idea is too use as less as possible insulin, right?

As a type 1 you take as much/little insulin as you need to keep your BGs in range.
When I did my DAFYDD course there were people there on small ratios, so you are definitely not alone. As @Rokaab has said.....we are all different, what works for you may not work for the next T1D
 
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Hey @Norman83
I'm intrigued where you got the idea to minimise your insulin?
It's something I have read before and think it's great when the type 1 old-timers are able to crush these kind of myths but if we can get the correct message out in the first place, guys like you don't start a confused diabetes journey.
 
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Norman83

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Hey @Norman83
I'm intrigued where you got the idea to minimise your insulin?
It's something I have read before and think it's great when the type 1 old-timers are able to crush these kind of myths but if we can get the correct message out in the first place, guys like you don't start a confused diabetes journey.

Well, I meant the less chemicals in your body the best, no?
I heard that insulin destroy the peripherical nerves. !?!?!
 
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Well, I meant the less chemicals in your body the best, no?
I heard that insulin destroy the peripherical nerves. !?!?!
I too want to minimise the drugs I add to my body and avoid taking headache pills, for example, unless my head really hurts and try to avoid taking antibiotics, for example.

However, as someone with type 1 diabetes, I see injecting insulin as something different. I need to inject insulin because my body doesn't produce any. If I did not have diabetes, my body would still have (approximately) the same amount of insulin (chemicals) in my body - the difference is my body would produce insulin itself,
Regarding your concern that insulin destroys peripherical nerves, my understanding is high BG causes neuropathy (nerve damage).

Type 2 is a different condition with some of the same symptoms. I don't pretend to fully understand type 2. However, what understand about type 2 is the insulin the body produces cannot be used - the body becomes insulin resistant. As a result, more insulin is required to produce energy from carbs. This excess of insulin causes problems such as weight gain.

As about 9 out of 10 people with diabetes has type 2, the majority of people of this forum have type 2. Therefore many of the messages on the forum relate to type 2 and are not always relevant to other types of diabetes such as type 1. This is just as true in the media when most of the time "diabetes" is mentioned, they mean "type 2 diabetes".
I sometimes wish the conditions had different names but then try to jump on the back of the type 2 band wagon in order to get heard.
 
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Norman83

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I too want to minimise the drugs I add to my body and avoid taking headache pills, for example, unless my head really hurts and try to avoid taking antibiotics, for example.

However, as someone with type 1 diabetes, I see injecting insulin as something different. I need to inject insulin because my body doesn't produce any. If I did not have diabetes, my body would still have (approximately) the same amount of insulin (chemicals) in my body - the difference is my body would produce insulin itself,
Regarding your concern that insulin destroys peripherical nerves, my understanding is high BG causes neuropathy (nerve damage).

Type 2 is a different condition with some of the same symptoms. I don't pretend to fully understand type 2. However, what understand about type 2 is the insulin the body produces cannot be used - the body becomes insulin resistant. As a result, more insulin is required to produce energy from carbs. This excess of insulin causes problems such as weight gain.

As about 9 out of 10 people with diabetes has type 2, the majority of people of this forum have type 2. Therefore many of the messages on the forum relate to type 2 and are not always relevant to other types of diabetes such as type 1. This is just as true in the media when most of the time "diabetes" is mentioned, they mean "type 2 diabetes".
I sometimes wish the conditions had different names but then try to jump on the back of the type 2 band wagon in order to get heard.

Thanks for your answers. A bit more clear for me.
 
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evilclive

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I heard that insulin destroy the peripherical nerves. !?!?!

What @helensaramay said - it's not insulin which destroys your peripheral nerves, it's lack of it. Too little insulin = too high blood sugar = neuropathy as one of the complications.

Now I have heard of people taking less insulin in the US for financial reasons, but that's a completely different can of worms - if you're T1, take the insulin you need to bring your blood sugars down.

If you want to reduce the amount of insulin you need, there are things you can do. A healthy diet is a good start if you're not already there - decent food, not massive quantities of it. Low carb probably helps, exercise definitely does (maybe not huge intensity exercise, but I find hiking, running and cycling all drop sugars. As does mowing the lawn...). Some of us find high blood sugars cause a bit of insulin resistance, so you might need a surprising amount to drop down to a sensible level - but if you stay at that sensible level, you might need less.

But don't treat insulin as a poison or a bad thing, that will do nothing but cause problems.

(FWIW I don't do anything to deliberately reduce the amount of insulin I take, I'm on a fairly high carb diet, but things like the exercise are worth it for other reasons too)
 
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Norman83

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What @helensaramay said - it's not insulin which destroys your peripheral nerves, it's lack of it. Too little insulin = too high blood sugar = neuropathy as one of the complications.

Now I have heard of people taking less insulin in the US for financial reasons, but that's a completely different can of worms - if you're T1, take the insulin you need to bring your blood sugars down.

If you want to reduce the amount of insulin you need, there are things you can do. A healthy diet is a good start if you're not already there - decent food, not massive quantities of it. Low carb probably helps, exercise definitely does (maybe not huge intensity exercise, but I find hiking, running and cycling all drop sugars. As does mowing the lawn...). Some of us find high blood sugars cause a bit of insulin resistance, so you might need a surprising amount to drop down to a sensible level - but if you stay at that sensible level, you might need less.

But don't treat insulin as a poison or a bad thing, that will do nothing but cause problems.

(FWIW I don't do anything to deliberately reduce the amount of insulin I take, I'm on a fairly high carb diet, but things like the exercise are worth it for other reasons too)

Thanks, I m trying to find my ratio for bolus and correction.
For example:
Before lunch my BS was 130( lunch was 20g of carbs approx). At 1:6, my bolus was 3.3u +0.2 correction at 1:15. Total insuline taken was 4u. 2 hours later my sugar was 156. My goal is 126.

*With 156, I took a correction of 2u based on 1:15 without eating. 2 hrs later my sugar was 158.

*With 158, I took 30 g of carbs based 1:6 and took a correction of 3u based on 1:10- as 1:15 ratio didn’t correct anything in the example before, now after 2 hrs my sugar went to 200

I can’t really determine ratios with these fluctuations any thoughts?
Th is in advance for your help.
 

evilclive

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First thing to remember is that this stuff can be properly random. There's rather more variables than just food and insulin. So two examples isn't going to be enough to work with - with your next 158 you might take the same carbs and insulin and your sugar go down. And your goal shouldn't be 126 (7.0), it should be 126 +-20 at least (though that does seem a bit high, target of 72-126 (4.0-7.0) is fairly normal here)
Second is we're not allowed to suggest doses here - we have to say "Go and see your DSN". Which can be kind of frustrating...

You sound like you're keen to work this out - what will really help is some kind of CGM (dexcom, libre, whatever), because a fingerprick doesn't show you the underlying trends, unless you do it every 15 minutes or so. Eg your 158 might be on a shooting upwards trajectory, which would need imply you'd want more correction than if it was 158 on a descent.

As I said above, your target should be a band, and with a difference of 54 in a typical band, that gives a fair amount of leeway with your correction doses. You could try aiming for the lower end of the band, with the intention of correcting with food if it goes too low, or aim for the higher end with the intention of correcting with insulin if it goes too high (I know which one of those two I prefer :) )

But my main suggestion is to keep at it - with more results the signal will start to appear through the noise. And with more experience you'll also learn when the numbers need a bit of a manual tweak - you'll learn the situations when you need a higher ratio and when you need a lower one.

Also remember you can correct at any time, though watch stacking.
 
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NicoleC1971

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What @helensaramay said - it's not insulin which destroys your peripheral nerves, it's lack of it. Too little insulin = too high blood sugar = neuropathy as one of the complications.

Now I have heard of people taking less insulin in the US for financial reasons, but that's a completely different can of worms - if you're T1, take the insulin you need to bring your blood sugars down.

If you want to reduce the amount of insulin you need, there are things you can do. A healthy diet is a good start if you're not already there - decent food, not massive quantities of it. Low carb probably helps, exercise definitely does (maybe not huge intensity exercise, but I find hiking, running and cycling all drop sugars. As does mowing the lawn...). Some of us find high blood sugars cause a bit of insulin resistance, so you might need a surprising amount to drop down to a sensible level - but if you stay at that sensible level, you might need less.

But don't treat insulin as a poison or a bad thing, that will do nothing but cause problems.

(FWIW I don't do anything to deliberately reduce the amount of insulin I take, I'm on a fairly high carb diet, but things like the exercise are worth it for other reasons too)
I am type 1 and I am trying to minimise insulin. Why?
Type 1s can get Double Diabetes i.e. become insulin resistant as well as insulin deficient and also I believe too much insulin is toxic over the long term with the huge caveat that there are a substantial minority of the population who can eat lots of carbs, remain insulin sensitive and never get metabolic diseases that go with hyperinsulinemia (visceral obesity, high blood pressure, fatty liver and possibly some cancers and dementias). I am not a natural skinny but if I did want to gain weight I would simply inject more and fill up on carbs!
Yes, the Accord studies around 10 years ago proved that high blood sugars are very damaging so I agree that as type 1s, keeping sugars on an even keel and below 7 is optimal to reduce complications but I am also trying to keep myself insulin sensitive. If you find your insulin ratios creeping up then that signifies insulin resistance.