• Guest, the forum is undergoing some upgrades and so the usual themes will be unavailable for a few days. In the meantime, you can use the forum like normal. We'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the 2025 Survey »

Carbohydrate Energy Paradox

PART 2 - How Much Glucose do You Burn per day?


So you use typically between 100 to 150g of carb a day - with an extra 15 - 25g per hour of athletic training per day. So your 600g carbohydrate bucket "leaks out" about 150g a day. If you eat more than about 150g of carbohydrate a day, eventually your "carbohydrate bucket" will overflow.

So basically your body can store about 4 days worth of glycogen.


If you eat more carbohydrates than you burn, within a pretty short time you'll fill up your "carbohydrate resevoir" and your bucket will overflow. In practical terms, this means that your metabolism will invoke some additional disposal pathways.
 
PART 3 - Disposal Pathways

  1. You can fill your liver and muscles, if they have been depleted through exercise
  2. You can convert the carbohydrates to fat, through a process called de novo lipogenesis
  3. If your BG levels become dangerously high your pancreas will secrete more insulin to try and force your that normally burn fat to burn glucose instead. This so called "Direct Metabolism of Glucose" creates reactive oxygen species which damage the cell, and switches it to metabolic pathways characteristic of cancer and diabetes (YAY!) Jaminet says "Ideally most cells should never metabolize glucose directly, they should obtain all of their energy from fats or from glucose-6-phosphate, peeled off in a controlled way from glycogen."
  4. You can store a small amount in your blood through chronic hyperglycemia. We all know how bad that is.

 
In Summary

Your metabolism only burns around 160g of glucose per day. If you eat more than that, you'll fill up your glucose resevoir (liver and muscle) and your body will have to turn to alternative disposal pathways, either by creating fat, forcing your cells into burning extra glucose, or letting your BG get high.

This matches our emprical observations on this forum. We typically observe that Grazer is the "highest carber" of the diet controlled T2s and he eats about 160g of carb per day. Most of us, with more damaged endocrine systems, eat a bit less.
 
Very informative.

I will be returning to take this in when I'm less busy.

Cheers for that :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Geoff
 
All this is saying is that, if you are going to eat more than about 160g of carbs a day, you'd be better off eating the extra calories as saturated fat.

If you are going to overfill your "glycogen resevoir" by regularly eating more than 160g of carbohydrate, the best possible thing that can happen is that the carbs will be turned to saturated fat, probably increasing your BG level, and possibly leading to direct metabolism of glucose (which may lead to cancer or diabetes*).

Note, that just because you are creating fat from excessive carbohydrate doesn't mean that you are storing it. It's just the same as any other fat in that you can burn it to meet the rest of your energy requirement.

*At least none of us have to worry about catching the diabetes.
 
I really don't think that there is any evidence to a maximum amount of glucose that can be processed in a healthy metabolism; as long as the total energy intake doesn't exceed calorific needs. The human metabolism is adaptive. If a person eats a high carbohydrate diet, glucose oxidation pathways are stimulated. Jecquier mentions both increased glucose oxidation after carbohydrate overfeeding and the capacity of glycogen stores increasing.
Undoubtedly glycogen stores have a maximum capacity but this only when there is a chronic increase in energy intake. Even then when lipogenesis takes place it takes a lot of energy to convert CHO to fat , it isn't a direct calorie for calorie conversion.

The opposite happens when someone eats a higher fat diet, glucose pathways are down regulated.

I'm not sure that Jaminet himself is so certain

Well, as my “Carbohydrate and the Thyroid” post discusses, how much glucose we utilize is a little unclear. 600 to 800 calories/day is a reasonable guess, but it can be elevated during infections such as fungal infections.

http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/08/po ... nny-roddy/

In the post he refers to he says.


http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/08/ca ... e-thyroid/
Actually, it's a very interesting post, From what I can gather he doesn't count vegetable sources of glucose so these would be in addition.

and just a fuller explanation from Chris Kresser which points to the body normally being able to process far more than 160g of glucose

http://chriskresser.com/is-starch-a-ben ... or-a-toxin
 
There may be different effects on health from eating a 69% carb diet like the Kitavans compared to a 69% carb diet as eaten by Westerners. The Kitavans lived on gloopy cassava porridges and such made from local tubers. There was virtually none of the grains and refined sugars that make up so much of the western carb load. Also, their fats were different, with 17% saturated fat and little vegetable oil. In the West, we are urged to reduce saturated fat below 10%, and vegetable oil is in everything. Their omega3-6 balance was better. There was virtually no processed food. And they were "moderately" active. There would be less environmental pollution in their air, water, and food. Their lifestyle was likely less stressful.
Americans would probably be healthy on such a diet in such a food environment. But in their present environment, they may be wise to reduce carbs.
 
Said it before, without grains or sugar there'd be very little obesity or T2 diabetes (and maybe not much T1 either).

Jaminet, Kresser, Harris and Guyenet would probably all agree that eating some "safe" starch from tubers probably isn't too bad a thing if you aren't metabolically deranged (ie diabetic). They'd also agree that eating a diet that is largely based on grains, grain products and other refined carbohydrates is almost certainly deleterious to your health. (Kresser thinks that grains are not worth the effort at all).

If I wasn't diabetic, I'd be getting my 160g of carbs a day from sweet-potatoes, just like Jaminet and every Paleo cross-fitter suggests. This is entirely consistent with Jaminet's 160g of carbs a day theory. If you cut out grains and sugar then you're going to have a hard struggle getting above 160g a day, unless, like the Kitavans, you are scoffing copious amounts of yam and sweet potato.

Like Dr Kurt says: "If you have the choice, why choose corn or potatoes over meat?"

http://www.archevore.com/panu-weblog/20 ... avans.html
 
"Metabolically deranged", huh?

I like it, Borofergie! All the rest of me is pretty much deranged - good to know my metabolism is following the trend! :lol: :lol:

Viv 8)
 
If I eat any grain what so ever I feel so ill, and drop off to sleep all over the place when I went for my gloucose intolerance test I had to wait in the surgery I told the nurse I will fall asleep. She said she had to laugh because when she walked pass I had the book on my lap looking down and fast asleep. I have cut down on carbs about 60g a day and now I stay awake all day. I just can't tolerate them at all. If I have a couple of potatoes my BG goes high. Oh and the surgery was full :lol:

I haven't bothered to see the diabetic nurse because I know what diet she will put me on. HIGH CARB!!!
 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn More.…