Carnivore Corner

I'm just a few days into my attempt at a carnivore diet but am experiencing some very odd things - burning (obviously inflamed) digestive tract, from throat downwards, nausea, vomiting, stabbing pains in my bowel, weight gain and high BG levels.

I do have a history of HBP, bowel cancer (sorted a few years ago), arthritis, absent gall bladder, fluid retention, erosions in my stomach and medication to deal with the remaining issues (Diltiazem, Co-codamol, Esomeprazole, Simvastatin, Furosimide and Spironolactone). I also take Metformin and Insulin.

Can anyone advise whether the problems I am experiencing are normal at this stage of the WOE or is it just me? As long as nothing gets any worse, my plan is to continue with the diet and see if things improve. Not sure how long to give it though.

The use of a PPI (Emseprazole) will reduce stomach acid and this may be causing some digestion issues with high protein intake. I pushed my PPI med into the bedtime slot to avoid messing up my food and meds digestion in the day.

Your missing gall bladder will also affect your ability to deal with fats, and although not a major issue normally it may be compounding things a bit. There are users here who use Low Carb while having had gall bladder issues or surgery, but it may be that high protein again is exacerbating this.

The Spirolactone gave me problems and led to sodium depletion in quite a short time, so check the meds sheet for that one. It may be that your two water tablets (spiro and furusemide) are upsetting electolyte balance, i.e. in my case it was sodium, but it could go the other way).

There are people who cannot or should not eat a high protein diet. Normally the general rule of thumb is to limit to around 1 gram per 1 kg of body weight per day. Body builders and athletes can go higher, but sedentary folk and the elderly should go lower than the average I believe. Check you are not overdosing on protein intake.

Cannot account for why you are seeing high bgl levels on a carnivore diet. It is however true that protein can be converted to blood glucose by the body so if intake is excessive plus carb intake is low than it may be that gluconeogenesis is occurring,

Some things I have discovered on the way:- Some processed meat like sausages or burgers contain bread and carbs, and it varies between brands, Again, some brands have added sugar to make them seem succulent . I found that a brand of faggot that I used to love as a kid have added sugar alcohols that make my bg meter misread high so although not sugar per se, will sem to be sugar, Again some chain stores add sugar to things like frozen peas and carrots which can be a surprise. If you have high bgl levels, high insulin and not using exercise to burn it up, then the excess will be stored as fat. Nomally our body regulates the amount of glucose and insulin but metabolic disorders ean cause that regulation to break down. which is why most of us are here.

So best to avoid processed foods, and stick to whole foods. And finally, we had a poster here who seemed to be following an ideal diet and reporting it wasn;t woeking for them. Turns out they were addicted to TicTacs and were chomping them down by the fistful. Its not food now, is it?

bulkbiker said:

What have you been eating?
Sounds pretty unusual but then again with all the meds you are taking it could be almost anything..

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I have been eating chicken, lamb, beef, pork (also as streaky bacon), eggs, some cheese although not much, cream, whole milk. Once in the last 2 weeks I had 2 sausages - not as high protein as I would like, but the best I can get here and one more yesterday in a frittata with some left over chicken and some black pudding, which I'd also had just once in the last 2 weeks. The only processed food I have is the occasional sausage and occasional bacon.

Drinks are tea, with milk, water and once in a while, coffee. No desserts, no sweets, no sugars or sweeteners, no fruit, no soda type drinks.

I believe I am putting weight on due to fluids - 8 lb in one week is quite a lot for it to be due to excess calories. I have done something similar before (ie 11st 10lb before the birth of my 9lb 10oz son to 11st 10lb a day later. Disheartening.) more than 50 years ago now though.

It sounds as though what is happening to me is not typical then. I'll give it a bit longer. Had a bit of a relapse today after an awful day yesterday so it'll take a day or so to get back on track.

bulkbiker said:

The only things that stand out to me are maybe the sausages and the black pudding.
How were you eating before low carb, keto or? It may be that you are experiencig a more extreme version of keto flu? Sorry I can't be of more help. how high are your bloods going?

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While I have been low carbing (keto, I now realise) I have had the occasional slice of black pudding with no serious effects same with sausages. At the beginning, my weight dropped and so did my BG for a while. I was also eating most other meats with no ill effects but there were few positive effects either, my BG had been climbing recently to remain around 8 or 9 most days, and my weight had stopped reducing. Most of the lower carb vegetables were causing problem with my bowel recently as well. Which is why I thought I would try to take them out of the diet as well and eat only animal products.

Today my FBG was 9.9, after a really bad day yesterday and a bad night and today I fell off the wagon - I bake for other people and stupidly ate some trimmings off of a cake. Result? My stomach felt better for a bit (didn't last) but my BG shot up to 18.5 despite taking insulin to try to combat it.

Bunch of snags bound for the barbeque plate with a bag of honorary onion meat yesterday.

DCUKMod said:

Ann, as a matter of interest, is chicken is good, ready supply for you at the moment?

Were I in your shoes, I'd consider a form of eliminations diet, like I had to follow when I had a vile polyarthritis rheumatic flare up. It was bland, bland and boring for the couple of weeks I was on literally a handful of foods, the. N adding foods back in one at a time, to help identify the culprits.

In your shoes, with what you eat, I'd maybe try two weeks on chicken, and maybe plain white fish, if available, as my started baseline, the new add other meats in over time.

I appreciate how boring that could be, but if you have boring, without the digestive upset, it could be worthwhile trying?

To be clear, I am not suggesting I (or anyone else) should live on such a limited range of foods for any length of time, but it might rest your system, and perhaps highlight the antagonists.

As a result of my own experiences, I lived a long time without oranges (well, any citrus really), tomatoes, and red meat. After a while, I experimented and was able to consume those things I need moderate quantities. This was way before any relationship with diabetes.

Those are just my thoughts. Otherwise, it's off to the DoC with you, I'd say.

Edited to add, that with your past history involving BC, a chat with the Doc and check over wouldn't do any harm anyway. I'm not trying to alarmist, but more trying to ensure any symptoms in a previously very sick area are given the respect they deserve.)

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Hadn't thought of any one particular meat causing the issue. I should have, of course, but things tend to slip my mind at the moment (old age?). That's a very good thought. I can get as much chicken as I want - the supermarkets have plenty of that. White fish is a bit more problematic, but I can make more of an effort to try to get to a fish shop when they have supplies in and see what they have.

Thanks for that thought.

Annb said:

While I have been low carbing (keto, I now realise) I have had the occasional slice of black pudding with no serious effects same with sausages. At the beginning, my weight dropped and so did my BG for a while. I was also eating most other meats with no ill effects but there were few positive effects either, my BG had been climbing recently to remain around 8 or 9 most days, and my weight had stopped reducing. Most of the lower carb vegetables were causing problem with my bowel recently as well. Which is why I thought I would try to take them out of the diet as well and eat only animal products.

Today my FBG was 9.9, after a really bad day yesterday and a bad night and today I fell off the wagon - I bake for other people and stupidly ate some trimmings off of a cake. Result? My stomach felt better for a bit (didn't last) but my BG shot up to 18.5 despite taking insulin to try to combat it.

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I am not an insulin user, but I remember there being conversations regarding having to bolus beforehand for protein as well as for the carbs. Perhaps an insulin user could provide the fraction adjusment to make for protein grams.

There was also the Pizza Effect that is a bane to insulin users in that it delays the blood spikes from a fatty meal such as pizza, and this meant a split dose had to be applied. Again, I may be talking out of my derriere here since it is not from my personal experience.

@DCUKMod . I thought @LooperCat was a vegetarian.
Obviously correct me if I’m wrong.
Asking a vegetarian to join a carnivore thread would appear to be extremely insensitive if that is the case.

therower said:

@DCUKMod . I thought @LooperCat was a vegetarian.
Obviously correct me if I’m wrong.
Asking a vegetarian to join a carnivore thread would appear to be extremely insensitive if that is the case.

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Check this post out by @LooperCat...

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/type-1stars-r-us.150597/page-1300#post-2199932

Extremely insensitive then.

post edited by moderator for breaching forum rules

bulkbiker said:

So far as I recall Loopercat was allergic to red meat but certainly ate fish so not vegetarian.

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ATE and maybe not EATS. Quoting historical eating habits is questionable. I would feel that a lot of people, even on this thread let alone the entire forum have changed the eating habits. It’s fascinating how some seem to forget the journey they have taken in life and are now so vocal and quick to live in the hear and now.

This thread has been derailed enough. Any further derailing posts will be deleted. Please stick to the topic.

Goonergal said:

This thread has been derailed enough. Any further derailing posts will be deleted. Please stick to the topic.

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The topic is carnivore diet? Yes?
My post #635 has yet to be corrected so I have to assume that I am currently correct in my post.
If this is so then it would appear that a moderator has introduced someone with strong vegetarian beliefs to a thread concerning carnivore discussions.
From where I’m standing this is what has caused derailment on this thread.