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Causal relationship between insulin resistance and vit D deficiency ?

B

Begonia

Well-Known Member
Messages
120
Location
Yorkshire
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
There seems to be quite a lot of evidence that many people with insulin resistance are deficient in vitamin D. I think its accepted that there is a correlation (sorry I don't have links its just my impression from reading stuff).

However the research I've seen looking at whether vitamin D deficiency causes insulin resistance hasn't found such a causal relationship. This surprised me a bit.

Just wondering if the causal relationship is the other way around, ie could it be possible that insulin resistance causes vitamin D deficiency ?

(probably a really dumb question)
 
Very interesting question! I have suspected some sort of association as well but am yet to find any firm evidence.
 
Ivor Cummins lecture on vitD is very good. I have only viewed it once but 'causal' links to T2 doesn't ring a bell. This lecture is over an hour but there is an abridged version of half that time on youtube.

 
Goodness. I go against the tide on both counts (Vit D and salt)

I am neither low nor deficient in either, but am an insulin resistant T2!
 
Begonia said:
There seems to be quite a lot of evidence that many people with insulin resistance are deficient in vitamin D. I think its accepted that there is a correlation (sorry I don't have links its just my impression from reading stuff).

However the research I've seen looking at whether vitamin D deficiency causes insulin resistance hasn't found such a causal relationship. This surprised me a bit.

Just wondering if the causal relationship is the other way around, ie could it be possible that insulin resistance causes vitamin D deficiency ?

(probably a really dumb question)
Click to expand...
Not a dumb question. Whenever an association is found between 2 variables, A and B, the questions that should be asked are:-
  • 1) does A cause B?
  • 2) does B cause A?
  • 3) are both A and B related by another, unknown factor, C?
  • 4) is the association due to coincidence (as can happen with small studies) or poor study design?
An illustration of number 3 could be if insulin resistance caused obesity, and if obesity caused people to avoid exposing their flesh to the sun with the result that vitamin D synthesis was reduced. In this case there would be an association between high insulin resistance (A) and low vitamin D levels (B) but we could not say that B caused A (or vice versa).

Generally, once an association is found, there needs to be further studies to try and determine causation. (Unfortunately, a lot of newspaper reporters do not seem to realise this and are happy to attribute causation when it has not been shown either way.
 
It seems that people who are have a vitamin D deficiency are also deficient in someone else, as just giving people vit D tablets have not worked in clinical studies. (But do seem to work when done by "functinal medine" doctors, but they enable lot of lifesytle changes ets as well as the same time.)

Yet the stats say that vitamin D deficiency is an issue related to lots of ill health.
 
I dont know about wider studies, just my own results
I was diagnosed with serious Vit D deficiency with a level of 18 point something or other. I was given high dose vit D3 supplementation for 6 weeks ( D2 is apparently much less effective) - next Vit D was 70 something, so supplementation worked for me
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/VitaminD-HealthProfessional/
 
Did the supplementation work for you, or did it just make the numbers look better on yours GPs computer?

(As supplementation with D3 does not harm it may be a good option given if we can't prove the level of benfits it gives.)
 
Worked for me in terms of bone (shin) pain which was the main symptom I was experiencing
 
Boo1979 said:
Worked for me in terms of bone (shin) pain which was the main symptom I was experiencing
Click to expand...

How much did you take a day? I’m having a lot of problems with shin splints and have started taking it, but not sure how much to take. Currently on 1000 iu
 
Because I was very deficient (18.something) I was prescribed a high ‘loading dose’ of 2x 25,000 iu D3 tablets a week for 6 weeks.
Once my levels were back up to speed I was advised to buy D3 supplements over the counter and to take 1000-2000 iu daily for life - being a bit of a lazy sod I take 1 x 10000 iu capsule a week ( caps are better absorbed than tablets)
 
Boo1979 said:
Because I was very deficient (18.something) I was prescribed a high ‘loading dose’ of 2x 25,000 iu D3 tablets a week for 6 weeks.
Once my levels were back up to speed I was advised to buy D3 supplements over the counter and to take 1000-2000 iu daily for life - being a bit of a lazy sod I take 1 x 10000 iu capsule a week ( caps are better absorbed than tablets)
Click to expand...
That's very interesting. Hubby is awaiting blood test results to see what his levels of Vit D are( probably be after Xmas now as surgery is closed) He has been experiencing a lot of nerve/muscle pain, not your typical areas for diabetic neuropathy. He takes a daily supplement of 1000 iu but I can see that to treat pain you would need to take a much higher dose. Out of interest would you not be able to get your Vit D supps free of charge-being a diabetic ?
 
Sam50 said:
That's very interesting. Hubby is awaiting blood test results to see what his levels of Vit D are( probably be after Xmas now as surgery is closed) He has been experiencing a lot of nerve/muscle pain, not your typical areas for diabetic neuropathy. He takes a daily supplement of 1000 iu but I can see that to treat pain you would need to take a much higher dose. Out of interest would you not be able to get your Vit D supps free of charge-being a diabetic ?
Click to expand...
I got the loading dose capsules on prescription so that was free. The surgery said they do not fund prescriptions for maintainance dose capsules as I could buy them cheaper over the counter I get this brand which is £12 for at least years worth - I get a higher dose that these - less capsules, similar cost - but it looks like amazon dont stock it
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Healthy-Origins-2000-Vitamin-Soft/dp/B00PLQ6KCA/ref=sr_1_6_s_it?s=drugstore&ie=UTF8&qid=1514028674&sr=1-6&keywords=d3+10000iu&th=1
 
I wonder how much awareness there is about the need for Vitamin D, either via diet or supplement? I first came across it with a mate in the USAF who was posted from Arizona to UK. Being the military, all dark skinned personnel were told to take D supplements, or risk being put on a charge for self-inflicted injury. So at least that part of the US seemed to understand the risk. But since then, have had varied responses from other dark skinned friends.

That suggests a lack of awareness & possibly a simple public information job to increase it.. Probably for all populations. So we've morphed from working out in the sun to commuting into offices, and in winter, rarely seeing the sun or exposing enough of our skin to synthesise D naturally. And that seems reflected in health stats, ie places like Scandanavia where there's a fair amount of fish in the traditional diet don't develop things like rickets as much as migrants to those countries, who may face a double whammy of UVB blocking pigmentation and diet defficiency.
 
first14808 said:
I wonder how much awareness there is about the need for Vitamin D, either via diet or supplement? I first came across it with a mate in the USAF who was posted from Arizona to UK. Being the military, all dark skinned personnel were told to take D supplements, or risk being put on a charge for self-inflicted injury. So at least that part of the US seemed to understand the risk. But since then, have had varied responses from other dark skinned friends.

That suggests a lack of awareness & possibly a simple public information job to increase it.. Probably for all populations. So we've morphed from working out in the sun to commuting into offices, and in winter, rarely seeing the sun or exposing enough of our skin to synthesise D naturally. And that seems reflected in health stats, ie places like Scandanavia where there's a fair amount of fish in the traditional diet don't develop things like rickets as much as migrants to those countries, who may face a double whammy of UVB blocking pigmentation and diet defficiency.
Click to expand...

We are seeing rises in the rates of Rickets in the UK, too. Mostly from the sub continent communities, pregnant women who cover up to leave their homes are passing on their vitD deficiency to the unborn child who then goes on to develope such deficiences that they need the treatment of consultants and multiple hospital visits to put right.
 
In that case, I should have truckloads of vitamin D! I am highly insulin sensitive, and also had severe vitamin D deficiency (too low for the lab to read). I feel like vitamin D and diabetes are related somehow, but certainly not via resistance in my case.
 
Once again the liver not working properly. The liver does the converting.
If you have a fatty liver, it struggles to work properly.
Most fatty liver patients have a vitD deficiency.
 
Guzzler said:
We are seeing rises in the rates of Rickets in the UK, too. Mostly from the sub continent communities, pregnant women who cover up to leave their homes are passing on their vitD deficiency to the unborn child who then goes on to develope such deficiences that they need the treatment of consultants and multiple hospital visits to put right.
Click to expand...

I think it's an all-risk problem, with lifestyle changes playing a part. I remember as a kid being out playing pretty much from dawn with strict instructions to be home by dark. That seems less common now, either due to lack of spaces to play (my 'playground' is now mostly covered by housing), distractions like video games or (anti)social media, or parents not feeling safe to let kids out.

Sad thing is we'd pretty much eradicated it, and kids with rickets face a lot of discomfort physically and mentally correcting for something that seems easily avoidable.
 
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