CGM on the NHS - please sign the petition now!

[CarbsRok]

Sensors
10091201 Dexcom G4 Sensors 4 pack £186.00 £223.20
10091101 Dexcom G4 Sensors 1 pack (single sensor only) £50.00 £60.00
Transmitters
10090901 Dexcom G4 Transmitter £335.00 £402.00
STARTER KIT Dexcom G4 Transmitter + G4 Sensors (4 pack) £500.00 £600.00
Infusion Sets
Inset II Range
10041000 INFUSION SET, INSET II, 23", 6MM, GREY, 10ct £97.50 £117.00
10041001 INFUSION SET, INSET II, 23", 6MM, BLUE, 10ct £97.50 £117.00
10041002 INFUSION SET, INSET II, 23", 6MM, PINK, 10ct £97.50 £117.00
10041100 INFUSION SET, INSET II, 23", 9MM, GREY, 10ct £97.50 £117.00
10041101 INFUSION SET, INSET II, 23", 9MM, BLUE, 10ct £97.50 £117.00
10041102 INFUSION SET, INSET II, 23", 9MM, PINK, 10ct £97.50 £117.00
10041200 INFUSION SET, INSET II, 43", 6MM, GREY, 10ct £97.50 £117.00
10041300 INFUSION SET, INSET II, 43", 9MM, GREY, 10ct £97.50 £117.00
Inset 30 Range
10039600 INSET 30, 23", 13mm GREY 10CT £97.50 £117.00
10039601 INSET 30, 23" 13mm BLUE 10CT £97.50 £117.00
10039602 INSET 30, 23" 13mm PINK 10 CT £97.50 £117.00
10039603 INSET 30, 43", 13MM GREY 10 CT £97.50 £117.00
Contact Detach Range
10090500 INFUSION SET, DETACH, 23" 6mm (10) £75.50 £90.60
10090501 INFUSION SET, DETACH, 23" 8mm (10) £75.50 £90.60
10090502 INFUSION SET, DETACH, 43" 6mm (10) £75.50 £90.60
10090503 INFUSION SET, DETACH, 43" 8mm (10) £75.50 £90.60
Comfort Range
10000601 INFUSION SET, COMFORT, 23", HOSP 10, 17mm £75.50 £90.60
10000600 INFUSION SET, COMFORT, 43", HOSP 10, 17mm £75.50 £90.60
10000603 INFUSION SET, COMFORT, 23", STD 5/5, 17mm £69.30 £83.16
10000602 INFUSION SET, COMFORT, 43", STD 5/5, 17mm £69.30 £83.16
10024001 INFUSION SET, COMFORT, 23", HOSP 10, 13mm £75.50 £90.60
10024003 INFUSION SET, COMFORT, 43", HOSP 10, 13mm £75.50 £90.60
10024004 INFUSION SET, COMFORT, 23", 5/5, 13mm £69.30 £83.16
10024005 INFUSION SET, COMFORT, 43", 5/5, 13mm £69.30 £83.16
Other
10012491 ANIMAS CARTRIDGES, 10 CT. £24.65 £29.58
10015901 CARTRIDGE CAP £13.00 £15.60
10015801 BATTERY CAP, BLACK £15.75 £18.90
10015501 BATTERIES £7.35 £8.82
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's the price list from Animas That was sent to my CCG

 

[noblehead]

Signed @DiabeticJim, good luck with the petition

 

[T1DM2012]

Following a conversation with my DSN yesterday, the Libre is on its way for Type Ones, just a matter of time. Its become extremely popular, I wouldn't be without mine and It will actually work out cheaper for the NHS to provide a Libre then to fund someone whose testing six or more times a day!!!

 

[Type1Lad]

Following a conversation with my DSN yesterday, the Libre is on its way for Type Ones, just a matter of time. Its become extremely popular, I wouldn't be without mine and It will actually work out cheaper for the NHS to provide a Libre then to fund someone whose testing six or more times a day!!!

they trying to get it on the NHS but haven't got a date for it yet i really want a libre though

 

[videoman]

The "sign petition in the first post comes back as "This petition is closed"Pity; The cost question is easily sorted out because the cost on meters and test strips work out at about the same cost,no strips and meters replaced by the CGM?

 

[tim2000s]

There is a lot of research on the cost of these products versus SMBG. The NHS recommends the use of SMBG 6-8 times per day. At this level, Libre become more cost comparable. You do, however, need to take training into account. Based on the experiences in the Libre facebook group there are a lot of people out there who won't understand the data capture aspect of it, but even then, if it encourages testing because it doesn't require fingerpricking, it's at least a step in the right direction. It will also give clinics the chance to see much more useful data from poor responders.

The issue about it being available is that there has been no notification from NICE that they are undertaking a Technology Appraisal, and I've been told by INPUT that this is at the very least necessary to get it onto prescription. INPUT keep in the loop on this stuff, and without that, it goes nowhere.

You can go and check on the NICE website what is currently underway, what is in development and what is in consultation. Nothing on the Libre. Popularity is not driving this.

The response to the Libre has been remarkable and NICE do need to do something relatively quickly on that front. It remains to be seen whether the promised fast track in the Petition feedback materialises.

The "sign petition in the first post comes back as "This petition is closed"Pity; The cost question is easily sorted out because the cost on meters and test strips work out at about the same cost,no strips and meters replaced by the CGM?

In answer to this, for someone testing 8x per day (extreme of the NICE guidance), the cost of the test strips, using Glucomen strips which are roughly ten pounds per pack can be easily assessed.

At 8x per day, you use 2,920 strips a year, or 59 packs of 50.

This comes to a total cost of £590.

To buy two sensors a month at the current rates, it costs around £1,250.

Libre is therefore twice the price of using SMBG. If the NHS can negotiate it to a price of £30 per sensor and guarantee a minimum buy at that level, then it makes much more sense.

 

[Garr]

Can't see the Libre being cost effective until they sort out the accuracy. My last couple of sensors are running about 2.5 mmol/l low,sometimes more, this morning it read LO when the meter read 4.9. They would still have to fund the meter and strips as well as the Libre.

 

[DiabeticJim]

The "sign petition in the first post comes back as "This petition is closed"Pity; The cost question is easily sorted out because the cost on meters and test strips work out at about the same cost,no strips and meters replaced by the CGM?

Yep - my last ditch attempt to gain more signatures in the final few days was a bit of a waste of time. It has ended just 50+ signatures higher than before I posted.

On the plus side - it is great to hear that things appear to be moving forward although very slowly and nothing specific with regards dates or devices.

It has been very interesting to hear responses from Diabetics that appear to be concerned about the cost incurred by potentially funding CGM on the NHS. It was quite a surprise to me.

 

[tim2000s]

It has been very interesting to hear responses from Diabetics that appear to be concerned about the cost incurred by potentially funding CGM on the NHS. It was quite a surprise to me.

We do have a bad habit of treating the NHS as a bottomless treatment pit. Sadly it can't be sustained, which is where the outcomes based model comes from. For us to get this stuff it has to show outcomes that are better than today.

What Abbott needs to do is work with a few clinics and reach out through them to the most difficult T1s who aren't testing. If they can demonstrate an improvement in those (and not those of us who are motivated) simply by encouraging use of the tech, then the NHS will bite their arm off. That's where it needs to come from.

I personally think the NHS model is broken and we need two things. 1. More Public sector spend to bring it up to a European par; 2. Shared cost responsibility as we see in other EU countries.

But that's just my point of view.

 

[DiabeticJim]

#1on Jeremy Hunt's agenda is to make the general public believe the NHS is broken and get the public to lose sympathy with junior doctors and anything else that might require extra funding. It is a sad day when people start believing his endless lies and spin.
The NHS is for all - lets keep it that way!

 

[tim2000s]

Don't get me wrong @DiabeticJim I've made sure my MP is voting for the save the NHS bill today. I totally disagree with Jeremy (insert vulgar term here) Hunt. I also know how much of the budget goes into the NHS and what the reality is of the spend it has to make.

The model for the NHS broke sometime back, when we decided that a socialised health system covered absolutely everything that could possibly fall under healthcare. It can't. Unless we all pay a lot more tax. And I don't see anyone rushing out and voting to do that.

Nobody is willing to stand up in a public forum and say "Okay, this free at the point of access is great, but we need to work out how to make it work and make it affordable". And I'm not suggesting that privatising it is a good idea. We should always get access to life saving healthcare and that includes chronic conditions, but we haven't for a very long time, been able to access the best possible healthcare available, because the NHS model works to what can be afforded based on improvements in outcomes.

The US model is also broken. It works on profit and liability and this should never be part of a healthcare system. What we need is a non-profit model where certain aspects are accessible, but at a lower cost as a result of the NHS not in spite of the NHS, which is where I feel we find ourselves now. Just looking at the Libre, if it could be provided at a personal cost of £20 per sensor, many would find that palatable where the £50 isn't. But our model doesn't work to that, and the sad fact is that everyone is all or nothing. I just don't think that works any more.

 

[DiabeticJim]

Glucomen strips

Who uses them?
I use Accucheck Mobile (which I get on NHS prescription) - they are about £20 for 50 tests which comes to a total of £1,180 based on your usage numbers - much the same as Libre.

 

[tim2000s]

Who uses them?
I use Accucheck Mobile (which I get on NHS prescription) - they are about £20 for 50 tests which comes to a total of £1,180 based on your usage numbers - much the same as Libre.

And why should you use them when SD codefree strips are 6.99 a pot and glucomen strips are 9.99 a pot and both do the same thing?

 

[DiabeticJim]

£20 per sensor, many would find that palatable

What about those that cant afford £20 per sensor?

 

[tim2000s]

What about those that cant afford £20 per sensor?

Why should the NHS pay £20 for your test strips when you could have cheaper ones that do the same job? That's my point. Should the NHS fund everything for everyone?

 

[Robinredbreast]

What about those that cant afford £20 per sensor?

I am a single parent ( an older one) and money can be tight, especially being selfemployed ( my choice)
About a billion pounds is spent of type 1 diabetes,( from a google search I did a a little while back) which is less compared to other medical conditions, related and unrelated.
We have an aging population and many have life long chronic conditions, so we live far longer than our ancestors did and the government need to provide for that.

 

[DiabeticJim]

Why should the NHS pay £20 for your test strips when you could have cheaper ones that do the same job?

They dont do the same job - that's like comparing syringes to pens.

 

[tim2000s]

They dont do the same job - that's like comparing syringes to pens.

I'd disagree with you on that, so enlighten me as to why!

 

[Robinredbreast]

They dont do the same job - that's like comparing syringes to pens.

Similar to the thread regarding a member who was changed to Fine point needles and they are causing bleeding and bruising and are inferior.

In 15 years :-
x an average of 5 blood glucose tests a day
x 365 days per year
= 27,375

 

[DiabeticJim]

Pens are pre-loaded with insulin (some of them anyway). The accucheck mobile has no "strips" - it is a continious ribbon, so the BG meter is pre-loaded with strips in the same way pens are pre-loaded with insulin.