Chances of stopping insulin??

[searley]

I was diagnosed diabetic in 2010 and was quickly put on insulin as everyone insisted i would be type 1 due to my age (36) and my normal BMI of 23

Now 9 years on my BMI has lowered a little to 21.5 but i instead on my consultant doing a peptide test the results came back at 600 apparently range from 300 to 1800.. my blood sugar at time of test would have been about 15mmol/l

so the consultant is now says that although the results are difficult to believe but I'm type 2

I currently take 30 units of tresiba at night and 1 unit of humalog for every 9g carbs

what the chances do you think of getting off insulin altogether?

 

[urbanracer]

All I can tell you is that at the time of my diagnosis I was told that once a person starts taking insulin they seldom come off it (whether T1 or T2).

That's not say that it can't be done. I don't know what you are planning to do but I hope you will only take action under the guidance of medical professionals.

 

[Deleted Account]

Can you explain why you insisted on the additional tests and why you are asking about coming off insulin? Do you have problems with the insulin?

Your diagnosis story is similar to mine: aged 36, “healthy bmi”, told it must be type 1 because I was not overweight.
My insulin needs are less than yours and without it, my BG rises. So, I am convinced my diagnosis was correct and have no desire for any further tests.

But we are all different.

I know I have not answered your question. I do not know.
But I am concerned your question exposes another underlying concern which we may be able to help with.

 

[Member496333]

If you are still making your own insulin in sufficient quantities then yes, all else being equal, in theory you might be able to stop injecting it.

 

[Member496333]

My insulin needs are less than yours...

Not especially surprising since you have autoimmune diabetes and presumably have better sensitivity than than someone who has resistant diabetes.

 

[KK123]

We are all simply guessing I know but maybe you were LADA? My Consultants only talk in terms of type 1 or type 2 and if you fall into the lada category, they still call it type 1. I know that a person with lada can still have some beta cell function for many years and that some say there is a benefit to lada people being on insulin (ie it helping to preserve their beta cells). As for coming off insulin altogether, I really don't know. How would you definitely know at this point whether you were fully type 2 and not lada for example? Would you want to come off insulin if you were lada? Personally, in your shoes I would NOT want to come off insulin after so long especially if my h1ac was fine. You are on 30 units of Tresiba which presumably is keeping your glucose within range, what would happen to it if you came off it? Is a reading of 600 sufficient on its own to keep your levels steady or would it be a case of yes, you still have working beta cells but not enough to stop injecting. Your Consultant says you are type 2 but I would not be convinced by that, C peptide towards the lower end and high glucose, it's a great question though and are you able to tell us WHY the Consultant has said 100% type 2, thank you.

 

[searley]

Can you explain why you insisted on the additional tests and why you are asking about coming off insulin? Do you have problems with the insulin?

Your diagnosis story is similar to mine: aged 36, “healthy bmi”, told it must be type 1 because I was not overweight.
My insulin needs are less than yours and without it, my BG rises. So, I am convinced my diagnosis was correct and have no desire for any further tests.

But we are all different.

I know I have not answered your question. I do not know.
But I am concerned your question exposes another underlying concern which we may be able to help with.

I'm an HGV driver so insulin adds complications with the dvla

I asked for cpeptide because if I stop insulin to see what happens my readings continue to rise to the point the meter will just say HI as the reading is over 33.3. But I never get ketone which to me said my body must be using some of the glucose

 

[HSSS]

All I can tell you is that at the time of my diagnosis I was told that once a person starts taking insulin they seldom come off it (whether T1 or T2).

Not surprising for a type 1.

Not so long ago type 2 was considered progressive and unable to reverse or put into remission and that is being proved wrong in here every single day. And we also see some shocking levels of knowledge by some hcp demonstrated daily too.

 

[Member496333]

Worth noting that if @searley really is type 2 resistant, then injecting exogenous insulin can never ever improve the sensitivity to it, and may in fact make it steadily worse in time, also resulting in complications from both excessive circulating insulin and an ever-increasing glucose load in the body. Type 2 isn’t just about glucose in the blood. That is the symptom of a much larger problem. So the motivation to come off insulin in this instance would be wise and justifiable if it is possible.

 

[urbanracer]

Not surprising for a type 1.

As you can clearly see, I wrote "whether T1 or T2".

Not so long ago type 2 was considered progressive and unable to reverse or put into remission and that is being proved wrong in here every single day.

Every single day? For diet controlled T2's maybe, but for insulin dependent T2's ?

 

[Member496333]

Every single day? For diet controlled T2's maybe, but for insulin dependent T2's ?

To be fair, I think the inference was that you have to become a diet controlled T2 in order to stop being an insulin controlled T2. If you’re insulin resistant, then diet is the key to turning your condition around. It’s an active choice, not passive circumstance.

 

[urbanracer]

To be fair, I think the inference was that you have to become a diet controlled T2 in order to stop being an insulin controlled T2. If you’re insulin resistant, then diet is the key to turning your condition around. It’s an active choice, not passive circumstance.

Yes of course but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? I didn't write that stopping insulin is impossible, in my first response I wrote, "that's not to say that it can't be done".

But in reality how many insulin dependent T2's achieve this?

 

[satindoll]

@searley
I have followed a Low Carb/ Full Fat diet since 2011 and still dependant on insulin regardless of going totally carb free for a while......
I'm not saying its impossible to come off insulin, but for me it is.......

 

[EllieM]

what the chances do you think of getting off insulin altogether?

I have no idea, but in your position I would consider going low carb and see what happens.

I asked for cpeptide because if I stop insulin to see what happens my readings continue to rise to the point the meter will just say HI as the reading is over 33.3.

Well, you definitely don't want to have readings like that. even if they are accompanied by ketones. Just giving up insulin isn't going to be an option unless you've managed to reduce your carb intake to a level where your blood sugars stay low with reduced insulin.

If your basal dose is correct then you need a fair amount of insulin, even when you're fasting, so I'm dubious as to whether going low carb will get you off insulin. But the only way to find out is to go low carb and see what happens to your levels.

But please, stopping insulin to "see what happens" is not a good idea. If you go very low carb you'll presumably need less and less (no?) bolus. At that point you can see whether your needs for basal also start to come down. Talk to your clinic, if you're now T2 they should be sympathetic to your desire to go low carh. (Hopefully, maybe, depends how up to date your clinic is.)

We are all simply guessing I know but maybe you were LADA?

I think this is a definite possibility. There are so many different types of diabetes now (MODY anyone?) and I'm not sure how aware all consultants are of the different options.

I'm sure I remember a poster on here saying that they came off insulin after ten years after a T1/T2 mixup, but I can't remember who.

Good luck. But please be careful. Talk to your clinic.

 

[searley]

I have no idea, but in your position I would consider going low carb and see what happens.



Well, you definitely don't want to have readings like that. even if they are accompanied by ketones. Just giving up insulin isn't going to be an option unless you've managed to reduce your carb intake to a level where your blood sugars stay low with reduced insulin.

If your basal dose is correct then you need a fair amount of insulin, even when you're fasting, so I'm dubious as to whether going low carb will get you off insulin. But the only way to find out is to go low carb and see what happens to your levels.

But please, stopping insulin to "see what happens" is not a good idea. If you go very low carb you'll presumably need less and less (no?) bolus. At that point you can see whether your needs for basal also start to come down. Talk to your clinic, if you're now T2 they should be sympathetic to your desire to go low carh. (Hopefully, maybe, depends how up to date your clinic is.)


I think this is a definite possibility. There are so many different types of diabetes now (MODY anyone?) and I'm not sure how aware all consultants are of the different options.

I'm sure I remember a poster on here saying that they came off insulin after ten years after a T1/T2 mixup, but I can't remember who.

Good luck. But please be careful. Talk to your clinic.

The only reason I tried to see what happens is the consultant asked what happens if I miss insulin and do I get keytones

In my mind from the cpeptide test is that although I'm producing insulin it's not a lot considering my bg was high at the time of the test

I want a definitive t1/t2 because as a t1 I will get better care in my area ie pump/cgms if I have a definate t2 then there is the hope I can at some point cease insulin

 

[Member496333]

Yes of course but I'm not sure what point you're trying to make? I didn't write that stopping insulin is impossible, in my first response I wrote, "that's not to say that it can't be done".

But in reality how many insulin dependent T2's achieve this?

I think that what @HSSS meant by “every day” is that it is proven every day that some people can reverse their condition sufficiently enough to get off insulin.

 

[Chook]

I think i must be one of the few. I used to be MDI insulin dependent - Lantus and Novorapid - became very insulin resistant (so my insulin requirements got higher and higher), came off the insulin and now control my T2 with low carb diet alone. I am still very insulin resistant though.

Doctors do not like it when you wean yourself off insulin so its something I did without medical support. If done properly it is a slow balancing process - lowering carbs while lowering insulin.

I have 'met' a few others like me on this forum but it is unusual.

 

[bulkbiker]

But in reality how many insulin dependent T2's achieve this?

Most of the T2's that ViRTA and Jason Fung treat? or at least they reduce their insulin requirements significantly as do a lot of low carb T1's re Type1Grit even though some here seem to have decided this can't be correct?

 

[Krystyna23040]

I think i must be one of the few. I used to be MDI insulin dependent - Lantus and Novorapid - became very insulin resistant (so my insulin requirements got higher and higher), came off the insulin and now control my T2 with low carb diet alone. I am still very insulin resistant though.

Doctors do not like it when you wean yourself off insulin so its something I did without medical support. If done properly it is a slow balancing process - lowering carbs while lowering insulin.

I have 'met' a few others like me on this forum but it is unusual.

I also have come off insulin and control the diabetes with a low carb diet (20g). The process was a bit scary trying to balance lowering the carbs while lowering the insulin.

 

[lovinglife]

I started on insulin I'm T2 - granted I was only on a short while - about 3 weeks but I was on gliclizide for 10 year and have dropped that completely now. My friend who had gestational diabetes then T2 for 22 years the last 10 on insulin, gliclizide and metformin has lost a lot of weight with Slimming World - not low carb and she is now only on metformin and has non diabetic numbers so it can be done! As always consult your GP - do not meddle with meds without support from your HCP