Changing from Human Insulin to Animal Insulin

[DiabeticVeteran]

UPDATE

I saw my consultant this Thursday just gone, explaining my frustrations with being on Lantus & the fact of the frequently increasing episodes of Aggressiveness with my hypo's & loss of HYpo Awareness over the last few years, which in turn had caused my marriage to end.

After explaining this, I then requested to be changed onto Animal Insulin.
The consultant asked why my blood sugars were higher than normal, from my last HbA1c blood tests. I basically told her that I deliberately did this to stop getting the Hypos, (although I have felt lousy from this).
Although she was a little reluctant to change me to animal insulin, BUT she respected my frustration & concerns & allowed me to change over!!

I am now on Hypurin Neutral & Hypurin Isophane Animal Insulin.
I am over the moon with this & i am now looking forward to trying it.

I would like to express my sincere thanks to you all, for the support given on this forum.
I would also like to express my thanks to my Diabetic Health care Consultant for allowing the change over.
.......and finally to Jenny from the IDDT, for her knowledge, support & total advise regarding this, I can't say thankyou enough!

I will keep you informed of what happens during the switch over & after.

Thanks again!

Steve

 

[nannybarbara]

Fabulous DV,

I was thinking about you yesterday. Well done!

Barb

 

[noblehead]

Steve,

That's great news, success at last!

Keep us informed on how things go.

Best wishes

Nigel

 

[janabelle]

Brilliant news Steve!!
I can't tell you how pleased I am for you, especially as it wasn't so much a battle for you as it is for others. I hope Loneranger is keeping up with this thread
There's so many of us who are eternally grateful for the work the IDDT do, their tennacity,honesty and support they give-I'm raising a glass of fizzy stuff to Jenny & Bev & you Steve -CHEERS! hic!
Jus xxxx

 

[DiabeticVeteran]

Hi All,

Again, I will say, thanks again.

tbh, although it is my first day on the Hypurin, I am really looking forward to using it & actually seeing if there will be any changes, mostly getting my awareness back.

I will keep you all posted. :mrgreen:

Cheers,

Steve

 

[megan]

i have been requesting similar recently....after being talked at for sometime and not making any attempt to listen to me...the gp warned me that i would have to take the animal insulin half hour earlier than my meal (already doing that with novorapid just to try and make it work).....he also said that i would not be able to find an animal slow acting for my backround bolus like i was used to and so i would have to inject it more than the once (already do with levemir and there is an animal alternative)...and i would have to do regular tests to do the transitional quietly and uneventfully and could offer a dieticiens help ..( for the hundreth time when i've been there and done that and they can tell me no more than i already know....not meant to sound funny...but i think you'll know where i'm coming from!!)

so very unhelpful....he would feel foolish for what he said if only he realised...but that would have involved listening to me.

 

[janabelle]

Hi Megan,
How frustrating, can you see another GP? Whatever you do don't give up. Your GP is aware of your BG probs, and he'd be neglectful not to let you try an alternative insulin. Maybe if you suggest to him it's a trial change to see how you get on for a few months, he might not be so against the idea. Ultimately the choice of what insulin you take should be yours, make him listen.
I was infuriated hearing a DSN speak at our local Diabetes Group Meeting recently, calling animal insulin "old fashioned"- funnily enough Megan ,she said the opposite of what your GP said regarding profile of long-acting animal insulin; she said it "hangs around too long in the body",implying it was TOO long-acting- what a load of tosh!
Keep at 'em Megan-don't be fobbed off if it's what you really want.
Steve, how are you getting on, are you noticing any other changes apart from sugar control?
Jus

 

[DiabeticVeteran]

Hi Jus,

Regarding the animal insulin change, although it has been a few days, my blood sugars are high BUT they are as stable as anything. Something I was really struggling with the Human insulin prior! :evil:
Although the dosages I am on at the moment are very small at the moment (8,6,8 & 22 night time) compared to what i was on (18,18,18 & 30 night time) with Human, there is alot of adjustment needed. I think my health care's concerns were to try & help me get my hypo awareness back, hence the above!

As for my well being, apart from the feeling of having high blood sugars, I have noticed some changes in myself, i feel calmer & less confused believe it or not & as I have been away in London for 4 days or so, people have noticed visual changes since seeing them at the beginning of my time in London.

Lets see what happens.

Speak soon.

Steve :mrgreen:

 

[janabelle]

Hi Steve,
Yes it's early days yet, but that's great!

Are you taking all your Isophane in one dose? I only ask because most people, including me, find splitting the dose works better. I had to do a lot of juggling to begin with, and it did take time to get it right- but same as you I noticed the stability and consistency straight away.

I was on something around 30 units of Lantus at the time, and I have been on a split dose of 22 units am and 12 units pm which seems to work for me. I started off on 10 units and ate not a lot! I still have a couple of screw-up days a month, and up my dose a couple of units during that time-you won't have that prob!

I hope things continue to improve for you, we've all been touched by your story.
Jus

 

[DiabeticVeteran]

Hi Jus,

I have split the Isophane, 12 units in the morning, 10 in the evening. As from previous post, blood sugars are still high but very constant.
I am more than prepared to adjust accordingly so theblood sugars get lower. My BG readings are more or less a constant 14mmol/l with a 3 mmol/l window either side.

Still early days but wont take long to get down to normal.

Take care & speak soon.

 

[megan]

i am back to my gp soon....hopefully to get some more thyroxine....my TSH is 4.25....it has been suggested that i will feel better if this comes down and so in my mind it may help with the weight and so maybe help with the insulin resistence......

i don't know what else to do.....my gp and previous specialist feel i should just live as i am and be happy....thats hard when you morfed into a zombie!!!!!

feeling pretty lonely and bleak......not depressed........just 'what the hell am i supposed to do to help myself'!!!!!!

had green salad for lunch and feel lousy with high bloods!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????

 

[DiabeticVeteran]

Hi Megan,

I am really sorry to hear of what is happening to you right now.

All I can say is dont give up. You have every right to ask & get changed onto another insulin, etc.
If your GP is not willing, try to change to another, even your Diabetic health care team.

They should be there to support you & your feelings.

I really hope this gets resolved for you. Please dont give up! I know its hard as I have been through hell the last 2 months or so & I know what you are going through.

Keep us all posted on your progress.

Best wishes,

Steve

 

[nannybarbara]

A quick update!

Two weeks into animal insulin and what a difference.

I've officially rejoined the human race. I still have slight tendon pain in ankles and wrists towards the end of the day, and the odd twinge, especially if I get cold, but otherwise I'm functioning normally. After months of trying not to use the joints, I need to build up strength again because they are still weak, but I'm getting there.

My tummy troubles have considerably lessened too which is a bonus.

This has got to have been the best health advice I've ever had. Thank you so much to everyone, but especially Carbsrok and Janabelle, for the advice and support.

Barb

 

[janabelle]

Brilliant brilliant news Barb! I hope your story inspires others to follow suit!
Theres an interesting post from Tigger in the '"medications" section under "Lantus Problems"-worth a look.
Jus x

 

[megan]

well still banging my head against that brick wall......i am going back to my gp to ask him to order my animal insulin. It will take some time, if possible at all....but fingers crossed....don't know whether to go for both animal insulins or just the one...

i know someone here has already mentioned this, but i have such a fuzzy head i don't know whether i'm comin or going half the time so i really can't remember!! oops sorry!!

 

[janabelle]

Hi Megan,
Keep banging it, and hopefully the fuzziness, which I remember so well :evil: , will ease.
You can change both insulins together Isophane will be your long-acting(most people find splitting the dose best), and Neutral for your short-acting.
Changing your basal/long-acting first would prob be best, once you've got the basal dose right for you then swap the rapid-acting for Neutral. Hope that makes sense.

I have to watch what I say now, as I continually get one member on my back, and recently accusing me of 'scaremongering' over the probs associated with analogue long-acting insulins. That member should just thank the lord they've never been in our shoes, and hold their tongue :twisted:

Best of luck Megan, we're banging our heads with you, and hoping you get through
Jus

 

[megan]

thank you so much :wink:

 

[DiabeticVeteran]

UPDATE,

Hi All,

I thought I would post an update to you all as I have not shown my face for a while.

I have now been on the Hypurin Animal insulins now, for a month today.

After speaking with Jenny from the IDDT before the switch over, she mentioned that i would more than likely experience some big improvements......

......well, after the month, here is what people have noticed first

1. I have lost weight but have not lost much definition
2. My head of hair had got thicker.
3. I have colour in my face. I was always very pasty when on Lantus & Novorapid.
4. People have noticed that I seem " Calmer"!

here is what I have noticed in myself............

1. Given the amount of stress I am under, due the domestic circumstances, I am going through, I generally feel better in myself.
2. I do not ache like i used to.
3. I dont feel half as tired as I used to be.
4. My skin complexion looks much better.

In terms of Blood sugar control, when I have a " Good" stressless day, they are very constant, but unfortunately I am having more highly stressed days at present which is making it hard to control my BG levels.
My consultant is aware of this & he is not concerned at the moment.
In terms of Hypo's, when my BG goes lows, I am starting to get some trembling, etc. It is a start but will take time.

The only people that have not seen me for 7 weeks now, is my wife, my 3 sons & her immediate family............By me not seeing my sons, this is killing me & although, I am trying to be very amicable with my wife, she wont let me see them, due to what she has written in her court proceedings..

However, I only wished I changed a long time ago to the animal insulin.

It is also very good news to hear that others using animal insulin have noticed a change in themselves.

Thanks for reading & take care.

Steve

 

[Cazz]

Hi all, I've been having problems with my insulin for some time (I was on Novomix 30 and now Levemir and Novorapid). The advice I received from the diabetes nurses was just to inject more so I've ended up injecting more and more and cutting carbs down more with the result I'm eating less but injecting more. My blood sugars just don't work in a predictable manner and I've also lost my hypo awareness after only being diabetic for two and a half years which I'm suspecting is the insulin.

I had an appointment with the diabetes nurse yesterday, and armed with all the info I've gleaned from these forums (thanks everyone), I managed to persuade her to put me on animal insulin. She said it was a backwards step which I was prepared for but I just stuck to my guns. I'm going to collect it from the pharmacy later this morning. I'm really hoping I will find a difference in using animal (I'll be on Hypurin porcine isophane and neutral). It will be interesting to see if my foggy head disappears.

I want to get the basal dose right first. I currently split Levemir and I know how to work out the overnight dose, but how do I work out the morning one? Do I have to fast one day because otherwise how do you know you just don't need to inject more of the bolus insulin?

The nurse also said to inject the bolus insulin 20 minutes before eating. Is this right?

 

[janabelle]

Hi Cazz,
Well done for getting your diabetes team to take your concerns seriously, I hope the new insulin works for you and clears your 'foggy head' too. I've never heard of people losing hypo-awareness so soon after being diagnosed, that's really worrying.
Like you said, you need to sort the basal out first, although you don't need to starve yourself while getting it right. I did stick to quite low carb foods for the first few days, but i was using humalog alongside it for six months, and I knew exactly how humalog worked for me. You could consider staying on your rapid-acting until you get your basal dose sorted, if that makes it less daunting. When you're more confident you could switch to the neutral. I find the neutral much smoother than I ever found humalog, novorapid and especially actrapid to be. I have less hypos with neutral, and having to inject it 20-30 mins before I eat is not a prob.
Most people split their isophane dose for better control, my split is 22 units at 8am-ish, and 12 units at around 10pm. I started on 10 units to begin with, although my doctor recommended 28! I started off very cautiosly too, from what I experienced on lantus, I was aware it could still be in my system for 36 hours or more.
I hope the switch works for you, but don't expect miracles with BG control from day 1, it will take time to get your doses right, trial and error I'm afraid. But hopefully it will work and you will feel better too
Jus