Coffee and insulin requirements

[Emck]

Hi All,

I might have posted something like this before, but wanted to pop a new thread on the board in case there were new opinions.

Does coffee stop anyone else's insulin from working?

This is a relatively new thing for me (noticed in the last year), I already have massive demands for insulin in the morning (feet on the floor) but now coffee seems to be ruining my sugars even more.

I am currently battling a nasty cold/chest infection that has been driving my sugars up, but I think that my morning coffee has stopped my insulin from working altogether.

This morning i woke a bit high (11- putting this down to my chest infection as it has me running high every night). I took 15u humalog to cover off the high sugar and 2 pieces of toast. I also had 1.5 cups of black coffee. Now 3 hours post-meal my sugars have risen to 18 and are starting to decline. A rise of 7mmol isn't normal for me after lunch or dinner, so the only difference I can see would be the addition of coffee into the mix.

I have spoken to my DSN who just tells me to correct the high, but I'd rather get to the root of the issue. She has suggested that I might need to move to levemir, with a higher dose to cover the morning-time.

I'm just on so much insulin already and still struggling to control, that it really gets me down at times! The more that I need to correct, the more weight I gain and the higher likelihood of hypos later in the day.

My normal day would look like this 5ish units humalog on waking to prevent FOF, then around 12-14u humalog for breakfast. Lunch would be around 12u humalog and dinner will normally be around 10-12u (my insulin needs decrease as the day goes on). I then take around 40u lantus before bed. I might also need to correct during the day, around 5-10units.

So, probably 90u on an average day. I'm a 30yo female, who is carrying a few extra pounds (which I put down to insulin), but not overly heavy or obese.

I don't eat abnormally or extravagantly, I exercise (which can bring down my sugars, or send them up sometimes), but I'm still struggling with control. A normal day would be cereal or toast for breakfast with a coffee or two, lunch would be soup or salad, dinner would be pasta or a homemade curry with rice, for example.

Stupid things like coffee (which should be a zero carb, easy treat) can really ****** things up!


Sorry for the rant! I'd like to know whether anyone has faced the same issues and solved them, or any advice that you have been given for these issues.

 

[LooperCat]

Coffee has no effect on me, but it does put some people through the roof. It could be a cortisol response, perhaps?

 

[Emck]

Hi @Mel dCP

Only reason I ask, but hover a year ago I was on Lantus and Nova Rapid but after getting a CGM I found that the insulin really was not working how I thought it should, so I go changed to other stuff which, for me, now works.

As for coffee stopping insulin? no not heard of that one I'm afraid, usually coffee is a stimulant so would have thought it would have the opposite effect. I drink gallons of the stuff and so far not notice it have that effect or any effect.

The cold/chest infection I think will be more likely to have an impact than coffee I think.

Other things is:
Did you inject and then eat? Might be worth experimenting with injecting and waiting 10 minutes before the toast, gives the insulin time to get into the system then act on the carbs incoming.

Other than that not sure

Will tag a couple of others to see if they have any ideas @Mel dCP @helensaramay @Robinredbreast @Fairygodmother @therower @db89

No, I injected and then waited 30mins before eating/drinking anything.

I have been chatting in some other threads about changing insulins and think that you might be right about the insulin not working as it should.

Can I ask what you were changed on to?

 

[db89]

I can't comment on coffee unfortunately as I don't drink the stuff. I do drink bucketfuls of strong tea and that never seems to have any effect.

It does sound like whatever the root cause is being aggravated by the infection you say you currently have.

 

[Deleted Account]

The only affect coffee has on me is nausea but that has nothing to do with diabetes.

I agree with @Knikki that your recent higher BG may be down to your chest infection, You mention exercise, you may be doing less of this due to the infection which may also cause higher BG.
If this perception of the insulin doing nothing is recent, it is possible the insulin has gone "off" or the pen is not working properly. You could try changing one, the other or both.

Regarding exercise - you mention it can sometimes make your BG go up and sometimes make it go down. I experience something similar but, for me, I have sussed which exercise does what. Constant cardio exercise of 15 minutes or more will make my BG go down. Short, interval type training will make my BG go up. Weights and resistance training will make my BG go up. Any exercise which stresses my body will make my BG go up. For example, sitting on an exercise bike for 20 minutes will make my BG go down but 20 minutes on a real bike cycling uphill against the wind on a rainy day will make my BG go up.

 

[Fairygodmother]

Not me, the only drinks that’ll have an effect on me are the ones that are carb-laden such as beer. And liqueurs are an armful of insulin for each glass.
@Emck, how long have you been using Lantus?
And were you having problems before the cold infection struck?
I agree with knikki that it may be that a different insulin would suit you better.
I also agree that pre-bolusing would be a good idea. I’m not sure how long it is before humulog becomes active after injecting but if you research it and wait that time between injecting and eating then you might see a difference.
I always look to have blood sugars that are as close to 5 as possible before I eat after a high. Sometimes a correction dose takes a while to act, and the higher the bs the greater the correction. There’s a sliding scale somewhere, I’ll see if I can find it.
Good luck, and it’s probably time to seek help from your medical team too.

 

[Fairygodmother]

And btw, in my experience the heavier I am the more insulin I’ll need. I haven’t found that insulin causes weight gain for me, it’s always the amount I eat, the kind of things I eat, and the energy I expend that affects my weight.

 

[Emck]

Not me, the only drinks that’ll have an effect on me are the ones that are carb-laden such as beer. And liqueurs are an armful of insulin for each glass.
@Emck, how long have you been using Lantus?
And were you having problems before the cold infection struck?
I agree with knikki that it may be that a different insulin would suit you better.
I also agree that pre-bolusing would be a good idea. I’m not sure how long it is before humulog becomes active after injecting but if you research it and wait that time between injecting and eating then you might see a difference.
I always look to have blood sugars that are as close to 5 as possible before I eat after a high. Sometimes a correction dose takes a while to act, and the higher the bs the greater the correction. There’s a sliding scale somewhere, I’ll see if I can find it.
Good luck, and it’s probably time to seek help from your medical team too.

I have been experiencing the morning 'feet on the floor' rise for over a year now, I mentioned it to the doctor a while back who just told me to take more insulin (helpful).

On a normal day, if I wake with sugars between 4-7, I'll need to take around 5u humalog on waking to allow me to get up and get showered, dressed etc -this keeps my sugars stable. I'll then travel to work, inject for breakfast on arrival and wait a while (up to 30mins) before eating/drinking coffee. It's the only way that I can get out the door without having to wake at 5am to wait for insulin to work before eating (sometimes it can take over 45mins). I find that I can manage coffee at work, easier than as home.

Maybe I'm just assuming that it's the coffee, when in reality it is the insulin that isn't working properly. I always just assume that I'm doing something wrong and that is causing the issues, rather than questioning the science!

It's helpful to hear that it doesn't cause so many of you problems, because this helps me in my case for an insulin change when I next see my dr.

 

[Fairygodmother]

If you ask to try a change to see if it’d solve the issues then I hope they prescribe one. I was personally very relieved when I stopped Lantus for Levemir and incidentally stopped needing such high doses. I also find Fiasp suits me better than Novorapid did. I’d been using Lantus and Novorapid for about 15 or more years.

 

[endocrinegremlin]

I have never had coffee impact me at all. Asked t1maw (that isn't a username. I just mean my maw is t1 too and happens to be in the house so I asked her) as she's about today and she reports the same.

Only exception is if I get a latte because that is basically milk. I'd need a couple of units for that given my ratios. But a black coffee or one with a splash of milk no.

 

[Tweety88]

No, never heard of this or had that problem I’m afraid. I do think it’s more likely to be down to the chest infection and sometimes when your sugar level goes past w certain point it can be very stubborn to come back down. If it’s just an instant coffee with milk then I can’t imagine that’s the problem. What are you eating for beakfast? X

 

[NicoleC1971]

I have been experiencing the morning 'feet on the floor' rise for over a year now, I mentioned it to the doctor a while back who just told me to take more insulin (helpful).

On a normal day, if I wake with sugars between 4-7, I'll need to take around 5u humalog on waking to allow me to get up and get showered, dressed etc -this keeps my sugars stable. I'll then travel to work, inject for breakfast on arrival and wait a while (up to 30mins) before eating/drinking coffee. It's the only way that I can get out the door without having to wake at 5am to wait for insulin to work before eating (sometimes it can take over 45mins). I find that I can manage coffee at work, easier than as home.

Maybe I'm just assuming that it's the coffee, when in reality it is the insulin that isn't working properly. I always just assume that I'm doing something wrong and that is causing the issues, rather than questioning the science!

It's helpful to hear that it doesn't cause so many of you problems, because this helps me in my case for an insulin change when I next see my dr.

Coffee is my drug of choice but it can cause a stress reaction especially in the mornings when you are more susceptible to cortisol (dawn phenomenon).
Natural insulin inhibits the glucose producing alpha cells but injected insulin doesn't do the same thing so as a type 1 it is not quite as simple as matching carbs to insulin.
At times my blood sugars seem to rise apparently randomly but especially in the mornings and in response to exercise when I haven't eaten or taken a bolus dose.
You could have a low key and long standing infection (gums?) that's causing you to need more insulin.
You could have some lumps where you inject that are impeding the absorption of insulin - that is something for a DSN to check for lumps and bumps.

 

[JAT1]

Sounds like it's probably the chest infection causing havoc. But it also sounds, judging by the amount of insulin you take, that you eat (my humble opinion only) quite alot of carbs. I suffered highs and lows frequently, until I gradually reduced my carbs to 100 or less a day. Now I take less insulin and my bs numbers are more stable. I will continue, slowly, to reduce my carbs even more. For me, reduced carbs and less insulin, and now I have way less hypos (none that catch me unawares) and no highs. Luckily I have excellent hypo-awareness even though my bs is rarely above 6.5.

 

[Jaylee]

Hi @Emck ,

I use Lantus & drink coffee with a splash of milk. (Another even worth mentioning the milk.)
Now I can wake on a 5.1 & after 2hours of morning routine posible rise by as much as 1.6mmol that's after a dog walk too.
That's all before my first coffee. Then it tailed off during the working morning. I don't do breakfast. (Can't face it first thing.)
So with no fast acting insulin on board till late morning or noon and a few more coffees under my belt. The effects on BG are pretty nominal.
That's on a good day with out having to correct on waking or fix a hypo.

What I have found with Lantus. Is sometimes it seems to loose it's "edge" (potency.) after use halfway two thirds down the cartridge.
Though I would concur with the others, infections don't always help.
I find starting a new cartrige on a sick day can steady things before contemplating raising the dose by a unit.

It's time to get back to your DSN to find a solution.

 

[Bluey1]

I need both in the morning. I mug of insulin and 1 injection of coffee, I of course don’t add sugar to my coffee. Or is it the other way around, I don’t add sugar to my insulin?

For those armed with syringes please note that was a joke, don’t waste Coffee by injecting it!

 

[Timostags]

I remeber when I worked nights and took pro plus to get through the day\night that I found this would make my BG go high, to the point where I wont take caffine tablets now and have always wondered if its the caffine that effected BG \ insulin absorbsion