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Collapsed:How low is too low

4ratbags

Well-Known Member
Just wondering if some T2's out there could give me some feedback on how low is too low when it comes to BS. I am T2 diet controlled and my last Hb was 34 and in the past I have had quite a few lows ranging from 2.9-3.7 and apart from the usual symptoms I have been fine but yesterday I actually collapsed at someone's door. I had done about 2 1/2 hours walking and I had been snacking on peanuts and drinking water yesterday morning and about 20 mins afterwards I was standing talking to a lady for about 20 minutes at her door and I started feeling light headed and then it started getting worse and worse. I didn't think too much of it but then all of a sudden I went down, after a few minutes sitting on the ground I got up and started going down again so the lady got me a chair to sit on and I asked her for a teaspoon of sugar and I started to come right so she also gave me a few jellybeans to eat as I was about to drive. What gave me the shock of my life was how quickly it came on with no symptoms apart from the lightheadedness and how quickly I went down. I didn't even have the option to test my BS as my meter was in my van which was parked down the road so there was no chance to grab it and even if I had it I don't think I would have been able to use it.
 
Hi @4ratbags

So sorry to hear this happened, it must have been awful. I would say whenever you test below 4 you should eat something. And also start testing before exercise, and taking your meter and a hypo treatment with you. Also test before driving for now I think.

Peanuts are an ok LCHF snack but in this situation I don't think the carbs in them can be absorbed quickly enough, and there's not many carbs in them anyway.

Have you thought about whether you might have reactive hypoglycaemia? If it's not that, then maybe you should see your doctor about it, as I can't think of any other reason for a T2 to be having hypos when they aren't on any meds.
 
Just wondering if some T2's out there could give me some feedback on how low is too low when it comes to BS. I am T2 diet controlled and my last Hb was 34 and in the past I have had quite a few lows ranging from 2.9-3.7 and apart from the usual symptoms I have been fine but yesterday I actually collapsed at someone's door. I had done about 2 1/2 hours walking and I had been snacking on peanuts and drinking water yesterday morning and about 20 mins afterwards I was standing talking to a lady for about 20 minutes at her door and I started feeling light headed and then it started getting worse and worse. I didn't think too much of it but then all of a sudden I went down, after a few minutes sitting on the ground I got up and started going down again so the lady got me a chair to sit on and I asked her for a teaspoon of sugar and I started to come right so she also gave me a few jellybeans to eat as I was about to drive. What gave me the shock of my life was how quickly it came on with no symptoms apart from the lightheadedness and how quickly I went down. I didn't even have the option to test my BS as my meter was in my van which was parked down the road so there was no chance to grab it and even if I had it I don't think I would have been able to use it.

Oh dear, That must have been alarming.

Your problem is two-fold, I'm guessing. Firstly, you have no way of knowing if you were low, never mind how low you were. Did you test as soon as you got back to your van by any chance?

As you may recall, I run quite low these days and the Libre I have been using recently tells me I have sometimes had quite significant periods at very low numbers. Overnights, I can do the 2s, without any sign, symptom or concern. Awake and ambulant, I get a bit irritated under 3.2, but to be honest, on the days I've breached that it's usually been a pre-meal and I have been er,..... very ready for my meal! In those circumstances I'd gauge how long I still had to wait before deciding if I need to nibble or not.

But, coincidentally, about 3 weeks ago, I had a bit of a funny episode. I'd had a very minor, but somewhat uncomfortable procedure done lying down, with one arm over my head (please don't try to picture the scene!) . I was absolutely fine, but when I was finished I felt a bit light-headed when I got up to leave, so had to sit down again. As I had gone a bit pale, the nurse insisted on bringing me a cup of tea, with sugar. Blimey, that was horrid, but I clearly wasn't going to be released into the wild until such times as I had drunk it. She was so pleased my colour was coming back that she insisted I had another!! (Didn't she have better things to do?! Though I shouldn't be ungrateful for being well cared for.)

Anyway, like you, by bad luck, I had neither my Libre scanner not my meter with me, so I had no idea there and then what my bloods had done, but of course, I could scan when I got home, and the scanner downloaded my history. The Libre reads every 15 minutes. Actually, my bloods had been exactly where I would have expected them to have been, mid-morning, after my usual breakfast, and the two cups of sweetened tea didn't do too much to the numbers either.

I can only conclude I had a bit of postural hypotension, rather than any bloods issue, and I've certainly had no recurrence or anything like it again.

So, if you tested when you got back to your van, your reading then, after a bit of a sugar hit might have given you an indication of what had gone on, otherwise you really are in the dark.

Perhaps, memo to self to keep an eye on things for a while, and make sure you take your meter out with you?

I hope you're feeling OK now, and can quickly consign today to the "just one of those bizarre things" bucket.
 
Hi @4ratbags

So sorry to hear this happened, it must have been awful. I would say whenever you test below 4 you should eat something. And also start testing before exercise, and taking your meter and a hypo treatment with you. Also test before driving for now I think.

Peanuts are an ok LCHF snack but in this situation I don't think the carbs in them can be absorbed quickly enough, and there's not many carbs in them anyway.

Have you thought about whether you might have reactive hypoglycaemia? If it's not that, then maybe you should see your doctor about it, as I can't think of any other reason for a T2 to be having hypos when they aren't on any meds.

Why should she eat something if she's below 4 and feeling fine? If I did that's I'd be grazing constantly, and I'd have to eat in the night.

From her profile, which I am assuming is correct, bearing in mind @4ratbags 's stated HbA1c score, she is not taking any meds and extremely well controlled.
 
Hi thank you for a bit of insight into the matter. Over the last month I had gone a bit off track with a bit of depression ect so my eating had been a bit up and down to put it mildly, the end of last week was really bad in that I couldn't breathe, had chest and stomach pains,headaches, sore throat and really tired, so basically back to like I was when I was diagnosed. Thankfully since then I am now back on track and I plan to stay on track. Since starting back LCHF I have found I generally don't feel hungry very often so apart from my main meal at night I am now generally just having a few snacks here and there and a few extra coffees throughout the day.

@CatLadyNZ now that you mention it only eating the peanuts may have been a contributing factor. Because I left just after 6am I only had a coffee and didn't eat breakfast as I wasn't hungry, I was only eating the peanuts as I walk pretty fast and I knew I would have to eat something but even then I didn't eat many peanuts, maybe a small handful in total throughout the 2 hours. I will definately be taking my meter and a few jellybeans with me from now on and as soon as I start to feel lightheaded I will test to check my BS.

@donnellysdogs I'm diet controlled only and have been since December 2014

@AndBreathe sorry but you put a smile on my face, I couldn't help but picture you lying down like that. I didn't test when I got back to my van as I couldn't find my meter (duh). I finally found it about 30 minutes later and my BS was 10.8 yikes!!! but in all honestly I think I overdid it with a heaped teaspoon of sugar and some jellybeans as well to correct it but I was faced with a panicking elderly lady who insisted I take both and I was in a state of shock at the time so I didn't argue. Lesson learnt, take your meter and know where it is at all times and take a few jellybeans with me. Also like yourself I feel fine if it is under 4 and I will only eat if I am actually hungry.
 
Hi thank you for a bit of insight into the matter. Over the last month I had gone a bit off track with a bit of depression ect so my eating had been a bit up and down to put it mildly, the end of last week was really bad in that I couldn't breathe, had chest and stomach pains,headaches, sore throat and really tired, so basically back to like I was when I was diagnosed. Thankfully since then I am now back on track and I plan to stay on track. Since starting back LCHF I have found I generally don't feel hungry very often so apart from my main meal at night I am now generally just having a few snacks here and there and a few extra coffees throughout the day.

@CatLadyNZ now that you mention it only eating the peanuts may have been a contributing factor. Because I left just after 6am I only had a coffee and didn't eat breakfast as I wasn't hungry, I was only eating the peanuts as I walk pretty fast and I knew I would have to eat something but even then I didn't eat many peanuts, maybe a small handful in total throughout the 2 hours. I will definately be taking my meter and a few jellybeans with me from now on and as soon as I start to feel lightheaded I will test to check my BS.

@donnellysdogs I'm diet controlled only and have been since December 2014

@AndBreathe sorry but you put a smile on my face, I couldn't help but picture you lying down like that. I didn't test when I got back to my van as I couldn't find my meter (duh). I finally found it about 30 minutes later and my BS was 10.8 yikes!!! but in all honestly I think I overdid it with a heaped teaspoon of sugar and some jellybeans as well to correct it but I was faced with a panicking elderly lady who insisted I take both and I was in a state of shock at the time so I didn't argue. Lesson learnt, take your meter and know where it is at all times and take a few jellybeans with me. Also like yourself I feel fine if it is under 4 and I will only eat if I am actually hungry.

To be clear, I don't feel better under 4, but then, nor do I feel worse or unwell. I just seem to run there, quite happily. I'm certain this is my new, natural rhythm.
 
could the sugar have been a coincidence .. the wife will flake out due to low blood pressure .. and will recover quite quickly after a sit down ... best you have a chat with your Dr about your 'lightheadedness'
 
I don't think the carbs in them can be absorbed quickly enough

yes - this is the exact problem here. Carbs/ sugars in the body gone too low, naturally system shuts down. Let us see -
She is on LCHF; carbs intake is under 25gr per day; conscious of weight loss, managing T2D without meds. Not sure if this lady has cheat days, which are very important.

Good thing is - the problem is due to low blood sugar; and now she is fine? this situation can be managed and totally with obvious measures in future. It would have been bad if she gets into high BS - that situation takes a good long time to get back.

Some of our gym mates (both T2D folks and body builders), keep chocolates, biscuit packets in the vehicles. Some rich guys keep all sorts of sugar/ energy drinks and light snacks, protein powders etc even in vehicles. So it is a good idea to stock up, if you are experimenting with weight loss with low carbing. why?? I have to quote this again -
I don't think the carbs in them can be absorbed quickly enough
. Actually 'in them' means 'in peanuts'. That is why you need to energy drinks etc, followed by wheat biscuits.

Do not ignore your cheat days - for T2D folks a typical cheat day [once in a week] permits up to 150g of carbs [which is 3 times of usual 50gr limit that most follow]; but not beyond. Also these 150 gr should come from combination of complex carbs [NOT form things like white bread, white rice] like a baked potato + boiled beans, even a quarter glass of wine. And then cheat day should be a typical work day, and not a restful day. Eat moderately, spend calories while working, and then have good sleep on the cheat day. But my personal/ serious advise for T2D people is - first experience how to 'eat to the meter'; know your body response first and this takes some good time.

Lastly, T2D folks should avoid '100% fasting'. I have seen some folks collapsing when they fast for religious or some other reasons. Do not do that.
 
It may not have been bg and diabetes related.
Might have been blood pressure...
Just speculating, of course, but i think when we are diagnosed we (and a lot of health care professionals) fall into the trap of thinking that everything is D related.
 
It definately makes it tricky as diabetes and BS levels isn't a one size fits all type of condition. I will be making an appointment with the doctor this week to try and extract some test strips out of them and to have a good chat. As long as she doesn't tell me to eat more carbs or eat more in general it should go fine as after 30+ years of bad eating habits and overeating I am finally eating well and only when I am hungry so I would be very unwilling to change anything in that regard.
 
@4ratbags
I'm sorry to read of your experience, quite frightening, and hope you don't have any more repeats.
For some reason I've been testing myself around 18:00, when still at work, I normally test at 19:00 just before dinner and tend to be mid 4's. The 18:00 have been in the 3 and one as low as 3.2.... which came as a bit of shock as I really felt "normal" and was then worried I was missing the signs of low.... I tracked a couple of lows and they tend to rise up to my mid 4s for pre dinner test. I'm not sure if it has always happened, can't be sure as don't test as much as I did... though the last couple of weeks I've been testing on the hour in the late afternoons to see what my trends are...

@mekalu2k4 what are these cheat days you write of, I've not heard of these.
 
@Brunneria I hadnt thought about blood pressure. The only reason I thought it was BS was that it wasnt until I had taken the sugar that I started to feel better, it was instantaneous. The elderly lady pointed out before I left that I was sweating as well and after I went down the first time I was shaking slightly.

@mekalu2k4 I dont have cheat days as a rule as I dont typically like any of the foods I used to and in the past I have found it hard to stop at one or two biscuits or just a bit if this or that but Im not discounting the idea altogether. Do you personally have cheat days and if so can you please post a detailed account of a typical cheat day for yourself as it may be worth a go on one of my busier days.
 
@hankjam I think I may have to go back to some more detailed testing as my carb intake is generally under 20 gr easily now, one day it was under 10gr so it would be well worth a bit more exploration on my part.
 
@Mike D yes Im glad I got over it as well, it was more the fact that it came out of the blue that shook me up more than anything. I always do that amount of walking 2 x a week as I have 700 papers to get out on a Thurs and a Sat and then there is the pamphlets that go out as well. Generally Im fine, even under 3 so who knows what was up yesterday.
 
Why should she eat something if she's below 4 and feeling fine? If I did that's I'd be grazing constantly, and I'd have to eat in the night.

From her profile, which I am assuming is correct, bearing in mind @4ratbags 's stated HbA1c score, she is not taking any meds and extremely well controlled.
I'm aware of her HbA1c, no meds and extremely well controlled. Of course if she is below 4 and feeling fine and not about to drive she would not need to eat anything. 4ratbags seems like a very sensible, experienced diabetic who I'm confident will make the right decisions for herself. But the context of this post was her collapsing, while away from home and her meter. So my caution antennae were up and I think it's better safe than sorry in such situations. Thanks for the reminder about people who run on low levels though. I'm glad you can go low and feel fine; I think most of us wouldn't feel too great at 3 or 2.
 
@Mike D yes Im glad I got over it as well, it was more the fact that it came out of the blue that shook me up more than anything. I always do that amount of walking 2 x a week as I have 700 papers to get out on a Thurs and a Sat and then there is the pamphlets that go out as well. Generally Im fine, even under 3 so who knows what was up yesterday.
I think your BG went low because of lack of food and doing prolonged exercise.
 
@CatLadyNZ looking back I think so as well. I think it will be a slight issue for me to try and get the balance right as Im not getting hungry but I still have to remember to keep snacking to a certain extent to keep my BS up to acceptable levels. In retrospect the amount of peanuts I was eating most probably wasnt enough to keep it elevated. Its a right pain in the butt though knowing you're not hungry but you still have to eat.
 
The mysteries of our varying BG "thermostats" - why some of us have hair trigger liver dumps and others collapse before their sluggish livers get the message. I imagine you'll be a lot more cautious in future @4ratbags - sounds like a very scary experience and thankfully someone was on hand to help :)
 
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