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Collapsed:How low is too low

4ratbags said:
@CatLadyNZ looking back I think so as well. I think it will be a slight issue for me to try and get the balance right as Im not getting hungry but I still have to remember to keep snacking to a certain extent to keep my BS up to acceptable levels. In retrospect the amount of peanuts I was eating most probably wasnt enough to keep it elevated. Its a right pain in the butt though knowing you're not hungry but you still have to eat.
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I agree, I would love to skip breakfast as I have no appetite for it, but I force myself to eat a boiled egg or 2 spoonfuls of yoghurt, as I don't want an extra liver dump.
 
@CatLadyNZ I will most probably start to eat at least an egg before I leave in the morning which should hopefully eliminate a repeat performance. I guess it just goes to show that even after you have lowered your Hb and your BS seems stable that you cant become complacent. It is definately a commitment for life. Oh well at least I am now healthier than I have ever been and I have the forum and the knowledge and support of its many awesome members so its not that bad :D
 
4ratbags said:
@CatLadyNZ looking back I think so as well. I think it will be a slight issue for me to try and get the balance right as Im not getting hungry but I still have to remember to keep snacking to a certain extent to keep my BS up to acceptable levels. In retrospect the amount of peanuts I was eating most probably wasnt enough to keep it elevated. Its a right pain in the butt though knowing you're not hungry but you still have to eat.
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Take care :)
 
4ratbags said:
@Brunneria I hadnt thought about blood pressure. The only reason I thought it was BS was that it wasnt until I had taken the sugar that I started to feel better, it was instantaneous. The elderly lady pointed out before I left that I was sweating as well and after I went down the first time I was shaking slightly.

@mekalu2k4 I dont have cheat days as a rule as I dont typically like any of the foods I used to and in the past I have found it hard to stop at one or two biscuits or just a bit if this or that but Im not discounting the idea altogether. Do you personally have cheat days and if so can you please post a detailed account of a typical cheat day for yourself as it may be worth a go on one of my busier days.
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If I can interject on a Devil's Advocate basis here.

That you felt better after ingesting sugar could well have been a red herring. If your issue was BP, sitting or lying down, resting could have alleviated matters, bearing in mind, by your own statements, you had previously been on your feet and moving around for a bit of time beforehand.

Let's be clear; I'm not rubbishing anyone's theories, just applying dissociated, rational logic to it, without auto-linking everything to diabetes. That's one of the things I hate about labels; the fast-forward, auto-connection habit.
 
hankjam said:
@4ratbags
I'm sorry to read of your experience, quite frightening, and hope you don't have any more repeats.
For some reason I've been testing myself around 18:00, when still at work, I normally test at 19:00 just before dinner and tend to be mid 4's. The 18:00 have been in the 3 and one as low as 3.2.... which came as a bit of shock as I really felt "normal" and was then worried I was missing the signs of low.... I tracked a couple of lows and they tend to rise up to my mid 4s for pre dinner test. I'm not sure if it has always happened, can't be sure as don't test as much as I did... though the last couple of weeks I've been testing on the hour in the late afternoons to see what my trends are...

@mekalu2k4 what are these cheat days you write of, I've not heard of these.
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Last week, I encountered a Diabetes Consultant and took the opportunity to ask him if he knew of any decent reading into normo-glycaemia, as I have really struggled to find decent robust papers. He admitted there isn't a lot really, because of the range nature of "normal", and in terms of research funding there aren't huge pots of money available to reseach "no problem".

What he did comment was that non-diabetics tend to routinely run in the 3-6.5 ranges, although he would routinely discount any readings of an hour or so, or less, after eating, as non-diabetics can easily reach double figures in this time-frame, but snap back quickly. I explained my discoveries using the Libre (which he was familiar with, and loved) and he said my lows and feeling fine were just fine - especially being so slight. He was a big fan of Professor Taylor, loved the impact discoveries - i.e. significant (using Taylor's words and inferences) weight loss being key to returning normo-glaycaemia for the lucky ones, although not at all supporting the VLC approach.

I think eating to one's meter is all very well, provided that reference is overlaid with how the subject feels at any given time. I would be unlikely to be driven to eat by a number on my meter, but I would, and am, driven to eat by being starving hungry, coupled with a low number. It is my belief my system has recovered sufficiently well to look after me. I really hope it can go on that way, if I can continue to look after it, by not allowing the poundage to slip back on.
 
AndBreathe said:
Last week, I encountered a Diabetes Consultant and took the opportunity to ask him if he knew of any decent reading into normo-glycaemia, as I have really struggled to find decent robust papers. He admitted there isn't a lot really, because of the range nature of "normal", and in terms of research funding there aren't huge pots of money available to reseach "no problem".

What he did comment was that non-diabetics tend to routinely run in the 3-6.5 ranges, although he would routinely discount any readings of an hour or so, or less, after eating, as non-diabetics can easily reach double figures in this time-frame, but snap back quickly. I explained my discoveries using the Libre (which he was familiar with, and loved) and he said my lows and feeling fine were just fine - especially being so slight. He was a big fan of Professor Taylor, loved the impact discoveries - i.e. significant (using Taylor's words and inferences) weight loss being key to returning normo-glaycaemia for the lucky ones, although not at all supporting the VLC approach.

I think eating to one's meter is all very well, provided that reference is overlaid with how the subject feels at any given time. I would be unlikely to be driven to eat by a number on my meter, but I would, and am, driven to eat by being starving hungry, coupled with a low number. It is my belief my system has recovered sufficiently well to look after me. I really hope it can go on that way, if I can continue to look after it, by not allowing the poundage to slip back on.
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I feel very much the same, though my understanding of the biology needs a bit of work.
Today was weigh day for me, every two weeks, and after being 72 kg for 3-4 months, I dropped 2 kg, which might not sound a lot but I'm really not sure how as I've been eating pretty consistently the same things and amounts.
I accept that once a DB always a DB and am really happy eating low carb, not feeling full (bloated) I think is a good thing... sort of hoping by going with this the complications will be kept at arms length.
 
Thank you for your input, any insight is appreciated. The only reason I didnt consider BP was because the first time I went down on the ground I sat there for a few minutes before getting up but upon standing I started going down straight away which is when Rose grabbed the chair for me to sit on and I had the sugar straight away and then I felt instantly better. If it was BP shouldnt it have come right after sitting down for a couple of minutes the first time. Hopefuĺly the doctor can shed some light on it.
 
4ratbags said:
Thank you for your input, any insight is appreciated. The only reason I didnt consider BP was because the first time I went down on the ground I sat there for a few minutes before getting up but upon standing I started going down straight away which is when Rose grabbed the chair for me to sit on and I had the sugar straight away and then I felt instantly better. If it was BP shouldnt it have come right after sitting down for a couple of minutes the first time. Hopefuĺly the doctor can shed some light on it.
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You may just not have sat long enough, but on the other hand, it could have been other things, including low bloods, a touch of vertigo or whatever, but without some metrics, such as blood score or BP readings, we're just speculating and categorising with likelihood.
 
Hi @4ratbags

Hope you are better.
Knowing what a rollercoaster ride diabetes can be and you never stop learning, it has been I believe your body adjusting to your new lifestyle.
Your body has to adapt back to normal on low carbing and if you do too much and not eat enough or the other way around, your body will respond by protecting itself in many forms, yours was extreme, but your recovery was natural.
Wether it was diabetes or not, you still have to look after yourself and take it easier for the time being until your control is good.
Control is the key to blood glucose disorders, wether you have what ever type of diabetes or not like myself.
A hypo is when you go below your own personal blood glucose tolerance level.
That could be anything below 4.0mmols. The guidelines say different but personally and individually your sensitivity must be taken into account.
I know you can be sensible in how you approach low carb, don't fall into the trap that carbs are good for you, take it from me, they're baddies, no matter, what anyone says, eat to your meter and check regularly.
 
Hi @nosher8355
Im feeling much better now thank you. I think you are right with a few points there. After falling off the wagon a few times in the previous month my BS had been sitting higher than usual and since going back to LCHF I have been very strict on myself and I havent been tempted to have just a.bit of this or that like I have in the past and I have noticed that my BS is mostly in the 4's at the moment during the day so my body is most probably still adjusting to the lower levels. I will definately not fall into the trap of thinking I can add in more carbs to my diet as in the past I have been able to eat a chocolate bar or a.few chips ect and I have tested after 2 hrs and my BS has been fine but for myself at.least it was a bit of a trap as I got into the mindset of thinking I can eat this and this and why not try this again when in reality I was just making it harder for myself to stay on track. For my own physical and.mental health I think it is better to stick religiously to LCHF as it just makes life easier in the long run. The funny thing about the incident on Sat was before I left Rose gave me a gourmet pizza, some broccoli, a banana and some more jelly beans to take home, she's an absolute gem although I only got to eat the broccoli, its the thought that counts. :D
 
4ratbags said:
Hi @nosher8355
Im feeling much better now thank you. I think you are right with a few points there. After falling off the wagon a few times in the previous month my BS had been sitting higher than usual and since going back to LCHF I have been very strict on myself and I havent been tempted to have just a.bit of this or that like I have in the past and I have noticed that my BS is mostly in the 4's at the moment during the day so my body is most probably still adjusting to the lower levels. I will definately not fall into the trap of thinking I can add in more carbs to my diet as in the past I have been able to eat a chocolate bar or a.few chips ect and I have tested after 2 hrs and my BS has been fine but for myself at.least it was a bit of a trap as I got into the mindset of thinking I can eat this and this and why not try this again when in reality I was just making it harder for myself to stay on track. For my own physical and.mental health I think it is better to stick religiously to LCHF as it just makes life easier in the long run. The funny thing about the incident on Sat was before I left Rose gave me a gourmet pizza, some broccoli, a banana and some more jelly beans to take home, she's an absolute gem although I only got to eat the broccoli, its the thought that counts. :D
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Hi @4ratbags.
I thought that you were as were tempting fate.
Glad you feel better now.
This is where I am most days, do I push myself to see what happens or do I keep in ketosis knowing full well that any misjudgement in my lifestyle will make me regret it.

You shouldn't regret what you eat! You should enjoy your food and live healthy!

Knowledge and control and knowing your limits is paramount in treatment.
 
4ratbags said:
Hi @nosher8355
Im feeling much better now thank you. I think you are right with a few points there. After falling off the wagon a few times in the previous month my BS had been sitting higher than usual and since going back to LCHF I have been very strict on myself and I havent been tempted to have just a.bit of this or that like I have in the past and I have noticed that my BS is mostly in the 4's at the moment during the day so my body is most probably still adjusting to the lower levels. I will definately not fall into the trap of thinking I can add in more carbs to my diet as in the past I have been able to eat a chocolate bar or a.few chips ect and I have tested after 2 hrs and my BS has been fine but for myself at.least it was a bit of a trap as I got into the mindset of thinking I can eat this and this and why not try this again when in reality I was just making it harder for myself to stay on track. For my own physical and.mental health I think it is better to stick religiously to LCHF as it just makes life easier in the long run. The funny thing about the incident on Sat was before I left Rose gave me a gourmet pizza, some broccoli, a banana and some more jelly beans to take home, she's an absolute gem although I only got to eat the broccoli, its the thought that counts. :D
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I haven't done a lot of going "off plan", unless you call compromises from menus when out "off plan". I just don't feel a big need or want. If I want something, I try to find a low carb version, and there's usually something that may not be identical in terms of taste, texture and/or whatever that fits the bill.
 
nosher8355 said:
Hi @4ratbags.
I thought that you were as were tempting fate.
Glad you feel better now.
This is where I am most days, do I push myself to see what happens or do I keep in ketosis knowing full well that any misjudgement in my lifestyle will make me regret it.

You shouldn't regret what you eat! You should enjoy your food and live healthy!

Knowledge and control and knowing your limits is paramount in treatment.
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Spot on.
Never regret what you eat.
Knowledge and control are what matters, a rigid regime is nearly impossible to live with, certainly there is more to life than planning what you do around what you eat.
Always find a diet/way of living that suits how you live, don't make your life suit a diet.
 
Hi @nosher8355 you are dead right there. My OH and daughter wanted pancakes yesterday and I thought to myself if I really want some I can make the LC version but upon making theirs I found I didnt even feel like any so I just left it at that. I have managed to find a.LC alternative for almost everything so at least I dont feel like I am missing out. The thing I miss the most is the convenience of just grabbing a packet from the cupboard or freezer and quickly whipping something up but Im getting quicker and more organised as I go along and some of the family even eat the same as me sometimes, so small victories.
 
@AndBreathe thats where I had the problem. I wasnt just making compromises when neccessary, I was saying yes to way too many bad things and way too often. It was definately not the right way to go about it.

@SunnyExpat thats how I am feeling right now. I look at what the rest of the family are eating and I look forward to what I am about to eat so I have turned the corner so to speak in regard to my mindset so that is great.
 
SunnyExpat said:
Spot on.
Never regret what you eat.
Knowledge and control are what matters, a rigid regime is nearly impossible to live with, certainly there is more to life than planning what you do around what you eat.
Always find a diet/way of living that suits how you live, don't make your life suit a diet.
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A rigid regime is what I must do or I would be ill!
I do have choices, but I have to make sure that they are the right ones.
My knowledge and control have made me be healthy.
 
4ratbags said:
@AndBreathe thats where I had the problem. I wasnt just making compromises when neccessary, I was saying yes to way too many bad things and way too often. It was definately not the right way to go about it.

@SunnyExpat thats how I am feeling right now. I look at what the rest of the family are eating and I look forward to what I am about to eat so I have turned the corner so to speak in regard to my mindset so that is great.
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Mindset is vital. You have to be able to maintain the diet, and the way of life you want.
And learning every time you realise it's how about how food can fit into your overall lifestyle, not how your lifestyle has to fit into your food.
 
4ratbags said:
@AndBreathe thats where I had the problem. I wasnt just making compromises when neccessary, I was saying yes to way too many bad things and way too often. It was definately not the right way to go about it.

@SunnyExpat thats how I am feeling right now. I look at what the rest of the family are eating and I look forward to what I am about to eat so I have turned the corner so to speak in regard to my mindset so that is great.
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Can't the rest of your family eat largely as you do?
 
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