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Confused about carbs

K

katyr

Member
Messages
7
Hi

I'm so confused, i thought a diebetic was supposed to increase carbs, from reading on here that now seems incorrect.

Please can someone set me straight? Maybe thats where i'm going wrong.

Katy
 
The traditional advice to diabetics is to eat plenty of carboydrate with each meal and take your suggested medication to deal with that. I see that you are taking insulin and are a Type 2.

What a lot of people find on this forum and elsewhere and what research also seems to show is that that approach is wrong. Carbohydrate/starch/sugars are not our friends. Protein and fats are. This of course goes against pretty much everything you have been taught whether as a diabetic or as someone listening to advice about a healthy diet. It is confusing, and if you want to get into the detail just dig around the internet and/or buy some books on this (Gary Taubes - The Diet Delusion for instance).

As a Type 2 you will find that your diabetic control will be markedly improved by reducing (as drastically as possible) all carbohydrates in your diet. You do not need to eat carbohydrate for energy; your body will cope and will provide alternatives and your insulin resistance and blood sugars and blood lipids will really improve.

This site can really change your life for the better if you follow the very good advice here. I'm a Type 1 diabetic and have been really focusing on getting rid of carbohydrates this year having discovered this site and I have just had my best HbA1c result in years and the next one is going to be better still!

Onwards and upwards!

Dillinger
 
kegstore said:
but only if you have healthy kidneys, otherwise you need to take care with protein
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I understand the worry there, but it doesn't seem to be indicated by any trials - for instance a trial reported on The Blood Sugar 101 site looking at low-carb (ketogenic) diets and non ketogenic diets showed that "though uric acid and creatinine clearance fluctuated, at the end of the six weeks they were lower than baseline in both groups, indicating both diets were not producing gout or damaging kidney function".

The link to the full description is here http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2009 ... diets.html

Also anecdotally I have suffered from damage to my kidneys with blood and protein leaking showing up in the past - however since going back to a full low-carb diet that has stopped - so my kidneys appear to be recovering.

Kidneys leak protein when damaged, but it does not logically follow that protein damages them; it's more a symptom than a cause.

All the best

Dillinger.
 
Hi Katy
the Eat plenty of carbs advice is based on 2 mistaken ideas
the first is that the medical establishment cannot admit it's made a mistake
the other is the Ancel Keys Fat/heart hypothesis, which has no scientific basis ATALL
It's known tha many diabetics succumb to heart disease
It was believed that eating fats causes heart disease
Keys theory. It's WRONG. they keep trying to prove it and always fail.
Protein MIGHT injure your kidneys
ergo
eat less fats and proteins and consume carbs instead
Result
ecimate most people'ws carbohydrate metabolism. Cause obesity, cause diabetes T2
We' ARE NOT designed to eat carbs
 
Dillinger said:
Also anecdotally I have suffered from damage to my kidneys with blood and protein leaking showing up in the past - however since going back to a full low-carb diet that has stopped - so my kidneys appear to be recovering.
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My kidneys stopped leaking protein too, which I took as a positive sign as I was really tightening up control. Kidney function is still reducing however, it's based on a multitude of criteria apparently.

Dillinger said:
Kidneys leak protein when damaged, but it does not logically follow that protein damages them; it's more a symptom than a cause.
Click to expand...
I don't think the connection is fully understood at all, and there seems to be anecdotal evidence both ways. B****y frustrating, excuse my French. So I don't risk increasing protein intake given that I CAN control - to a good extent anyway - the glycemic effect of my "moderate" carb intake. But I have an advantage with CGM so this is made a lot easier.
 
Its funny you know but on lots of threads here I read comments like:
katyr said:
i thought a diebetic was supposed to increase carbs,
Click to expand...
Dillinger said:
The traditional advice to diabetics is to eat plenty of carboydrate with each meal
Click to expand...
hanadr said:
the Eat plenty of carbs advice is based on 2 mistaken ideas
Click to expand...

I was diagnosed in March this year and thats not the advice I was given at all.

Yes I was told to eat carbs with every meal but not loads or increased amounts just to eat low GI carbs like basmati rice rather than white rice, wholegrain bread rather than white bread etc etc and to drastically reduce portion sizes which is what Ive done.
Ive lost over 3 stone and my hba1c has dropped from 12.9% to 5.4%. Now of course I may be the only diabetic in the country that has been given this advice but I doubt that somehow and whilst the support I have been given has been next to zero I have coped fairly well so I suspect that the NHS resources are directed to those who are not managing their condition so well.

So is this "eat LOADS of carbs" advice really given out or do you all just like to perpetuate the carbs are bad myth? I'm not trying to start a war here but I have just not experienced this advice

And for the record my daily carb intake is generally between 60g to 110g but I deny myself nothing, in fact tonight I went out for a curry washed down by 2 bottles of Cobra lager.
My pre meal BG level was 4.8mmol/L
1hr after 5.6mmol/L
and 2hr after 5.4mmol/L
The carbs I ate were 3 desert spoons of rice and two small onion bahji's (conker sized) and a small amount of sag aloo (potato & spinach) plus one square of 75% cocoa chocolate when I got home.

The point I am trying to make is that portion size is more important than the carbs. Of course this is only my opinion and I quite expect to be a lone voice on this forum but I just get so fed up of all this "the NHS advise is eat loads of carbs" which it isnt. And I never thought I would be sticking up for our underfunded and mismanaged National Health Service..

OK rant over, but please stop perpetuating this gorge yourself on carbs myth, as something like 80% of diagnosed type 2's are overweight they are hardly going to be told to eat more of anything are they?
 
While I agree with you Sid I refer you to this link on NHS Choices,

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Diabetes-t ... /Diet.aspx

It uses the word 'Plenty carbs' ,now to the ordinary person in the street the word plenty means lots,they may not understand about gi etc but just read that word and think '"ok so I can eat plenty". This is what is contributing to the lack of control and obesity levels amongst type2's. The wording on these help leaflets and guidelines needs to be changed to simpler language so that it is more easily understood by the ordinary patient.
This is a heading on the NHS Choices page,

Eat plenty of starchy carbohydrates

* Choose carbohydrate foods that have a low glycaemic index (GI). Low GI foods release their energy slowly into the bloodstream and help to keep blood sugar levels more stable.
* Try not to eat too many high GI foods, especially between meals, as these foods can cause blood sugar levels to rise quickly.
Click to expand...
 
OK Sue, point taken I cant argue with that, what cant talk cant lie and all that. I am just pleased that the hospital diabetes nurse who first talked to me was a bit more switched on than whoever wrote that web page. I still cant believe that anyone overweight and I count myself in that number, would be told to eat plenty of anything. The mind boggles as they say
loco.gif
 
I'm with you Sid, I've never experienced the "bad diet advice" either, so there's two of us already! But like so many things it's all about how the information is interpreted, as Sue suggests.

I was once taught that the art of successful communication is ensuring the message is understood, not using a "fire and forget" approach. I think that applies here?
 
I was told the 'bad' diet advice 12 years ago and it caused me all sorts of complications due to following that advice. It was even backed up by at least three Dieticians over the years. It was only my own research that helped me to understand that for me personally, it was one of the worst things I could have done. :( That's all changed since joining this forum. :D

Ken.
 
From a different perspective, I am one of the 20% of underweight T2s as such a reduction in portion sizes is not an option for me. Take the eatwell plate that states a third of the plate should be starchy carbs, from experience I know what that does to my BG and as the standard advice recommends low fat how am I supposed to maintain my weight. My only way is a LC/HF diet and contrary to the myth that this will lead to high cholesterol and cardiovascular problems my lipid panel has actually improved.

Graham
 
I thought I was doing well until I read this artical (I have had no information at all on high-low carbs) My breakfast is weetabix 1 slice of toast and 1 banana .I am more confused now than before can anyone give me any information what i can eat and cant eat. I diagnosed 4 weeks ago at 7.4 I have got down to 6.5 but ocationally go to 8.8 please help me .
 
Hi Bigal.

I have posted a number of times before, and have just spent a really nice day with a friend who I did not realise is actually a psycologist, dealing mainly with people who have diabetes.

I started off trying to cut out as much carbs as possible, and having had my first ever fasting BG taken at 13.2 managed with 2 x 500 metformin to get down to about 6.5 waking (alhtough bar today, three days prior was more like 7.5)

I would like to point out, that I agree that everyone is different, and with some posts on this board, I have been very scared reading level of 18+. I get concerened if I am over 9.0.

I have been playing with my diet, and maybe it is me (as each is different) but I have now lost over a stone (since diagnosis - with about 1 1/2 stone prior to this) and am still loosing at an acceptable rate.

Although for the first few weeks I did not pasta, potatoe or bread, the only one I dont eat now is bread, as I leave this for a treat / emergency - The treat part is if I am out and fancy a burger, and the emergency is if I am out on the road, and cant find anything else for lunch, I will have a sandwich.

From trying to low carb, to going back to eating what I would class as normal food, the BG has not really changed.

I am going to wait to see what my next HBA1C brings as this will hopefully confirm that I am doing OK.

Again, I do not want to disagree with more experienced diabetcis, and I do understand the lower the BG the better, but if low carb, and 'normal' make no difference, then I would prefer to be able to eat normally.
 
BIGAL said:
I thought I was doing well until I read this artical (I have had no information at all on high-low carbs) My breakfast is weetabix 1 slice of toast and 1 banana .I am more confused now than before can anyone give me any information what i can eat and cant eat. I diagnosed 4 weeks ago at 7.4 I have got down to 6.5 but ocationally go to 8.8 please help me .
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High BIGAL,
Welcome to the forum, your breakfast would send my BG into orbit :( . Can you tell us when you test, on the face of it your levels are not the worst I have seen, but it all depends on on your testing regime. Ideally you should test before a meal then 1hr and 2hrs after. Have a look at the following link for advice on Blood Glucose monitoring.

http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/

Regards
Graham
 
Hi Graham.

Whilst I think the Blood Sugar 101 site is excellent in some respects it is an American site and the Bg levels given are not what we refer to in the UK. To avoid any confusion, here are the UK figures.

The UK guideline figures for a T2 Diabetic are as follows:
Fasting (waking)................between 4 - 7 mmol/l.
2 hrs after meals...............no more than 8.5 mmol/l.

If you can get lower after meal numbers then so much the better.

Ken
 
Graham.

If you want to follow other guidelines that is your choice.

However, the figures that this forum gives out and follows are the United Kingdom guidelines. That is what we give out to new members and old alike.

Cheers mate.
Ken. :D
 
BIGAL I am a 66 year old landscape gardener working very hard all day, I need as much high carbs as possible ,or come lunchtime i am feeling low, i have been told to eat as much carbs as possible,but i am now putting on more weight.6 weeks ago i was diagnosed @7.4 and 16 stone i lost 1 stone in 2 weeks just cutting sugar-fats out ,now i have been told to cut the carbs ,but nobody has given me any alternatives who is right my doctor or my book which should i ditch
 
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