Confused about my blood sugar numbers.

[CherryAA]

If my fasting measurement was taken between 6 and 8 am the number would average 6.3-6.5 over a few days if it were taken 2 hours later it would be closer to 8.8 - and still be a fasting reading. Between about 2 pm and 8 am staying under about 6.8 is relatively easy and food does not spike me too much. between 10 am and 2 pm its a nightmare to bring down.

 

[SWUSA_]

If my fasting measurement was taken between 6 and 8 am the number would average 6.3-6.5 over a few days if it were taken 2 hours later it would be closer to 8.8 - and still be a fasting reading. Between about 2 pm and 8 am staying under about 6.8 is relatively easy and food does not spike me too much. between 10 am and 2 pm its a nightmare to bring down.

Well Dawn Phenomenon for sure explains the higher fasting numbers after 8am. When and how often are you having the whisky? What do you have for breakfast and lunch? Are you taking any medication or over the counter pills or herbs?

 

[CherryAA]

Well Dawn Phenomenon for sure explains the higher fasting numbers after 8am. When and how often are you having the whisky? What do you have for breakfast and lunch? Are you taking any medication or over the counter pills or herbs?

With or without food seems to make no difference, similarly exercise doesn't seem to make a difference either . I take blood pressure tablets but no change there, nothing over the counter and no herbs, This morning it started to gradually rise from around 5.5 to 9.5 and has stayed at that four about four hours with no food at all other than two glasses of water with apple cyder This is the third day of this phenomena ,one with a breakfast around 9 am and the second with both breakfast at 9 and lunch at 1 , the, third , today, nothing but the apple cyder vinegar .

What has happened is that I am not in ketosis for the first time since this began I was already mildly ketotic from the previous diet through lack of calories before I made the switch.


its interesting that I had reached a weight plateau shortly before this happened spending a week at the same weight, having read up on that, I figured it might not hurt to eat a little more anyway, though I did stick to low carb.

There must have been more hidden carbs or too much protein in the meals out I have eaten over the last few days or so ( fish dishes) that has tipped the balance to no ketones. ( though I have lost a bit of weight ! so all it's a bit odd )

My ketone reading is still zero after an 18 hour fast with just the vinegar. Though interestingly I am not particularly hungry. I am going to see if I can hold out with no food other than a couple of stock cubes until I get back to a ketone level of at least 0.5 - which I was happily maintaining before and see if that then brings down this particular phenomenon. It may be that my body simply needs to operate in ketosis mode if I am to keep control of the blood sugars.

Finally I think the Freestyle might be a touch on the high side by about 0.5 which would reduce most of my numbers into the mid 8's not 9's which would feel a lot less bad.

 

[SWUSA_]

Is the Freestyle testing higher than strips?
How much apple cider vinegar are you using? One cup of apple cider vinegar has 2.2 carbs in the brand that I use-how many does yours have?
Do you have a cold or physical discomfort? Does it hurt somewhere when you are moving around after you get up- pain raises my blood glucose almost every time.
Fish sauces and coats can be deceptively carby. Let me know how the fast is going.

 

[Brunneria]

No idea if this will help you, but I am prone to that bg rise during the morning if I don't eat.
But a cup of coffee with cream or a fat bomb knocks it on the head every time. Or a very small portion of nuts.

I have always assumed (rightly or wrongly!) that my body is pumping out stored glucose from the liver, to give me the energy to cope with the day (caused by dawn phenomenon hormones). And that if I give my body fat (in the cream or the fat bombs) it recognises that food is on the way, and stops with the glucose dump.

If I have any carbs at breakfast, or even a lot of protein, I get a rise from them that far exceeds the glucose dump, so I stick to the fat only.

 

[CherryAA]

Is the Freestyle testing higher than strips?
How much apple cider vinegar are you using? One cup of apple cider vinegar has 2.2 carbs in the brand that I use-how many does yours have?
Do you have a cold or physical discomfort? Does it hurt somewhere when you are moving around after you get up- pain raises my blood glucose almost every time.
Fish sauces and coats can be deceptively carby. Let me know how the fast is going.

The fish was pain grilled , or crab no actually coatings at all.

The Free style is testing about 0.5 higher than the strips. My brand of apple cider vinegar is Aspall Raw Organic Unfiltered Unpasteruised containing the Mother ( the active ingredient) and has 0.7 g carbs per 100ml. I am drinking about 30m per glass Three glasses so far so 1 g carbs in total.

I have now been fasting for 24 hours, the ketones have finally started to register again at 0.3 after a 7 km walk . During the walk my sugars rose again from 8 back to about 10 and now back down to 8 again after 2 hours. i.e. a lot worse than yesterday where I did at least reduce to 6 after food. i;m assuming that to an extent that is stress brought on by exercising on no food at all.

I think I will try and carry this on for a couple of days and see what transpires - I assume at some stage I should start to run a bit lower on the sugars once the ketosis takes a hold properly.

On the hurting front, yes my arm is still giving me some problems and I am having trouble sleeping because of it. MRI scan on Sunday

So today as a fast I have averaged about 7.9 compared to 7.2 before the fast both using Freestyle as the measure.
whatever is going on it clearly is not carbs given I have had the sum total of 1 g in the last 24 hours!

 

[CherryAA]

No idea if this will help you, but I am prone to that bg rise during the morning if I don't eat.
But a cup of coffee with cream or a fat bomb knocks it on the head every time. Or a very small portion of nuts.

I have always assumed (rightly or wrongly!) that my body is pumping out stored glucose from the liver, to give me the energy to cope with the day (caused by dawn phenomenon hormones). And that if I give my body fat (in the cream or the fat bombs) it recognises that food is on the way, and stops with the glucose dump.

If I have any carbs at breakfast, or even a lot of protein, I get a rise from them that far exceeds the glucose dump, so I stick to the fat only.

Thanks Brunneria,
I would like to get back into a good ketosis level, so I might see what happens during a second day of fasting if I can stand it. If I can get my ketones back to more than 0.5 I will then have a go at some cream for breakfast. The sheer extent of it this time has taken me a bit by surprise though I know I had the morning problem before it seems to have got a lot worse with not being in ketosis, so I would like to see what difference that makes before I change anything else, otherwise its so hard to judge what is going on !

 

[SWUSA_]

I agree it is not carbs. I think since your blood glucose was a little better with eating that I would eat a small meal or the coffee with cream that Brunneria suggests. I would be leery of an extended fast while you are still healing from the fall. Your body needs nutrients to heal. Also, sometimes it helps to remember that we can not be perfect but to continue with a sustainable routine often times brings better results in the long run.

 

[CherryAA]

Thanks all, your thoughts are very helpful , sorry for sticking this on the fasting numbers thread - thanks admin for moving it .

I am keen to get back into the ketosis, because I do feel that that losing that is where the dawn phenomenon suddenly got bigger. I ended the day with 250 calories 70% fat and 10 carbs being mainly the salty stock cubes, and a bit of cheese and nuts before bed, a bed time reading on 5.9 and a daily average of 7.5 my highest in 10 days. I will be very interested to see how the dawn thing behaves tomorrow.

 

[CherryAA]

For info.

This morning I am back in ketosis ( 0.5 reading). I carried on the fast . My average blood sugars are down by 11% overall. today compared to yesterday - same diet . ive currently had about 100 of yesterdays 200 calories.

day 1 Time above 8.5% blood sugar - starting ketones 0 = 4.5 hours average blood sugar 7.5%
day 2 Time above 8.5% blood sugar - ketones 0.5 = 45 mins average blood sugar 6.7%

I have also correlated my blood ketone measures over the last month . My ketone levels ranged from 0 to 3 and with carbs ranging from 2 grams to 87 grams.

The average blood sugar reading seems to be more closely correlated to ketones than to carb count where the link is not at all obvious ( though clearly is what is driving the ketones) . I could probably make a good guess what my daily average blood sugar was going to be for that day using the one blood ketone test that morning

Very interesting result - a blood ketone monitor seem to be as important as a glucose monitor in getting a handle on this .

 

[SWUSA_]

Very interesting-I have been issued a ketone testing kit although it was for testing when I had high glucose for a couple of days a few weeks ago. I had 0 ketones. I will test as I reduce calories again this week to try to lose another 10 pounds.

 

[CherryAA]

Very interesting-I have been issued a ketone testing kit although it was for testing when I had high glucose for a couple of days a few weeks ago. I had 0 ketones. I will test as I reduce calories again this week to try to lose another 10 pounds.

Will be interesting to see if you get similar results - my blood sugars look excellent today - well over 95% between 5.4% ad 7.8% no major high and a complete turn around from the days with 0 ketones

 

[SWUSA_]

My blood glucose numbers have been better than ever before for the last week and a half but I am slowly putting weight back on (two pounds now)- so I need to reduce calories again for a little while. I will keep track of ketones for you but I only glucose test twice a day now due to testing strip restrictions.

 

[CherryAA]

the ketone strips are expensive so hard to replace. It might take a few days to get into ketosis. give it a few days on the strict diet before you test so you can use them later as well !

 

[SWUSA_]

Okay I will wait to ketone test. I scared myself with a lower than normal middle of the night number and am going to have a few more carbs than originally planned today. I do have hypo awareness though-so that's a good thing.

 

[CherryAA]

Day 3 of my fast, opening ketones 0.6 , continued fast with about 100 calories or breakfast and 100 calories for lunch. Lunch a bit quick after breakfast because I was about to go for a walk so the second meal was additive to the BS as had not given enough time for things to settle down first. So I got a 9.2 at lunch for a brief moment. Went for a 10 km walk. Arrived home to find ketones had gone up to 1.6 . Decided now was the time to see what happened to blood sugars if you eat when in substantial ketosis.

So overall the results of this fast were

day 1 Time above 8.5% blood sugar - starting ketones 0 = 4.5 hours average blood sugar 7.5%
day 2 Time above 8.5% blood sugar - ketones 0.5 = 45 mins average blood sugar 6.7%
day 3 Time above 8.5% blood sugar - ketones 0.6 = 15 mins . Walk sent ketones to 1.3 , so I broke my fast after 74 hours with a 1000 calorie meal inc 30 g carbs which had no real effect on blood sugar . (I try to stick to 25 per day normally) Results 5.6 pre meal. 7.1 high at 1 hour, back to 6.4 in 2 hours. average for the day 6.3%

I think I now understand the power of the ketosis and the fasting that puts me there. It seems clear that the way for me to get really low blood sugars is likely to be to check for ketones each morning and decide my daily food strategy depending on that level, fast or exercise until I have high ketones of at least 1,0 then eat a substantial meal and fast again. (but then @bulkbiker already knew that ! )

 

[CherryAA]

Day 4 - morning glucose 5.9, breakfast ketones 0.6, 10 km walk post walk ketones 0.8 - bs about 7.3 between 10 and 2 No food until 6pm . Pre dinner blood sugar 5.1%, high 5.7% 2 hour post meal 5.4% .

i.e in ketosis a three course1300 calorie 25 carbs evening meal had no appreciable effect at all.

menu
Avocado with crab mayonaise and truffle oil served on a bed of lettuce with tomato
Lamb stew with carrots and squash served on a bed of kale , spinach,onions and mushrooms cooked in butter and cream,
raspberries and coconut ice-cream served with clotted cream, chia, flax and hemp seeds
one shot whisky.

I like this diet !

Okay I will wait to ketone test. I scared myself with a lower than normal middle of the night number and am going to have a few more carbs than originally planned today. I do have hypo awareness though-so that's a good thing.

what drugs do you take ?

 

[leslie10152]

With or without food seems to make no difference, similarly exercise doesn't seem to make a difference either . I take blood pressure tablets but no change there, nothing over the counter and no herbs, This morning it started to gradually rise from around 5.5 to 9.5 and has stayed at that four about four hours with no food at all other than two glasses of water with apple cyder This is the third day of this phenomena ,one with a breakfast around 9 am and the second with both breakfast at 9 and lunch at 1 , the, third , today, nothing but the apple cyder vinegar .

What has happened is that I am not in ketosis for the first time since this began I was already mildly ketotic from the previous diet through lack of calories before I made the switch.


its interesting that I had reached a weight plateau shortly before this happened spending a week at the same weight, having read up on that, I figured it might not hurt to eat a little more anyway, though I did stick to low carb.

There must have been more hidden carbs or too much protein in the meals out I have eaten over the last few days or so ( fish dishes) that has tipped the balance to no ketones. ( though I have lost a bit of weight ! so all it's a bit odd )

My ketone reading is still zero after an 18 hour fast with just the vinegar. Though interestingly I am not particularly hungry. I am going to see if I can hold out with no food other than a couple of stock cubes until I get back to a ketone level of at least 0.5 - which I was happily maintaining before and see if that then brings down this particular phenomenon. It may be that my body simply needs to operate in ketosis mode if I am to keep control of the blood sugars.

Finally I think the Freestyle might be a touch on the high side by about 0.5 which would reduce most of my numbers into the mid 8's not 9's which would feel a lot less bad.

Hang in there, you're doing too bad. When you get readings above 25, then you know you have a problem.

 

[SWUSA_]

Day 4 - morning glucose 5.9, breakfast ketones 0.6, 10 km walk post walk ketones 0.8 - bs about 7.3 between 10 and 2 No food until 6pm . Pre dinner blood sugar 5.1%, high 5.7% 2 hour post meal 5.4% .

i.e in ketosis a three course1300 calorie 25 carbs evening meal had no appreciable effect at all.

menu
Avocado with crab mayonaise and truffle oil served on a bed of lettuce with tomato
Lamb stew with carrots and squash served on a bed of kale , spinach,onions and mushrooms cooked in butter and cream,
raspberries and coconut ice-cream served with clotted cream, chia, flax and hemp seeds
one shot whisky.

I like this diet !



what drugs do you take ?

I am on metformin and lantus.

 

[SWUSA_]

I think you should change the title of this thread to "Low Carb Diet with Fasting Brought my Blood Sugar Under Tight Control"!