Correlation of Weight Loss and Hba1C

[zand]

This means that someone who is overweight, but not obese, and has a very high HbA1c level might benefit more from weight loss — at least in terms of diabetes control — than someone who is obese but has only a slightly elevated HbA1c level.

lol I don't know why I'm even trying to lose weight then. I was morbidly obese and my HbA1c was only 53. Doomed then lol.

 

[CherryAA]

Am I the exception that proved the rule then? My HbA1c dropped from 129 to 70 and I'd lost 6lbs. Another blood test tomorrow and I've maybe lost another kg. BMI was in the normal range to start with..

We have had a few people who have shown quite remarkable reductions in horrendous HBa1C numbers extremely quickly . Its had to tell how many of those were also not particularly obese in the fist place .The researcher said that those who were overweight as opposed to obese with very high starting numbers stood the most to gain in terms of their diabetes from weight loss. Perhaps this is magnified when BMI is in the normal range to begin with ? maybe that is because when such a person does lose weight it really is the internal abdominal fat that is being lost straight away.?

 

[CherryAA]

lol I don't know why I'm even trying to lose weight then. I was morbidly obese and my HbA1c was only 53. Doomed then lol.

There is a slightly more positive way of viewing this . Research I have read seems to show that there are individuals who are metabolically healthy because of the way the fat that they create is distributed and who thus seem able to better withstand whatever happens to severe diabetics . If you have now managed to control your blood sugars despite still having a lot of weight to lose, then maybe that is because you fall towards the metabolically healthy obese individual side of the scales?

Maybe that means you are not doomed at all, instead you might be able to congratulate yourself on how relatively metabolically healthy you are, Clearly getting fitter, slimmer etc is still hugely important for your own personal well being but may be knowing that your body has actually coped with its sugar load way better than many of us , might allow you to approach the next phase of your fitness and health plans in a different frame of mind. It may also mean that you can actually cope with slightly higher carbs in your diet without those having a dire affect on your blood sugar control giving you perhaps a wider range of options as to what you can eat within a calorie restricted weight loss attempt .

http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/0117p30.shtml

 

[Tannith]

We have had a few people who have shown quite remarkable reductions in horrendous HBa1C numbers extremely quickly . Its had to tell how many of those were also not particularly obese in the fist place .The researcher said that those who were overweight as opposed to obese with very high starting numbers stood the most to gain in terms of their diabetes from weight loss. Perhaps this is magnified when BMI is in the normal range to begin with ? maybe that is because when such a person does lose weight it really is the internal abdominal fat that is being lost straight away.?

Has anyone revered their type 2 with weight loss? How much did you lose and how long did it take?

 

[CherryAA]

@Tannith

There are many examples on here of people getting type 2 under control, i.e. non diabetic readings through a combination of any of LCHF diet, intermittent fasting, and low calorie diets . Many T2 diabetics ( though by no means all ) are overweight to varying degrees. Look at the testimonial section.

It seems to be reasonably consistent that many newly diagnosed diabetics can improve their situation quickly even to the non diabetic readings level by following the low carb advice on here.

Based on the research outlined in this paper ( which is only tentative at this stage) - I see the implications being :

How quickly hba1C improves could be a function of how overweight you are , how high your hba1C is and how quickly you lose weight by whatever means.

My reading of this research and the various comments made on the forum read me to think that the following may hold reasonably true for many T2 individuals.

If you are not very overweight but your hab1C is very high, then the hba1C should start coming down very quickly without needing to lose too much weight as long as you reduce the carbs. - this may mean that those already in the normal BMI range can achieve non diabetic readings simply by reducing carb content but keeping weight stable or losing only a few pounds of what is effectively visceral fat - ( TOFI)

If you are very overweight and have a high hba1C then you will need to lose quite a lot of weight to get the figures down but it should start to come down quickly alongside the weight loss

If you are very overweight and have a Hba1C that is only a bit elevated, then it may be that it will take a long time and a lot of effort to get your numbers in range - and that may be because you are not actually that insulin resistant in the first place - instead you may be more in the nature of a metabolically healthy obese person. (google the concept)

From my own readings of this forum it seems that for many of us ( including me) the first stage of the process works quite well - ie we can lose 3- 5 stone and get our numbers into a reasonable range - i.e. around pre-diabetic numbers. - after that it gets much harder to both lose additional weight and improve hba1C further - this may be because at that point we are becoming more like the category of metabolically healthy but obese people.

All of this is just conjecture on my part, so no doubt others will have different opinions.

Suffice to say, whatever your precise situation, eating only real food , eliminating most carbs and losing weight will all move you in the right direction !

 

[zand]

There is a slightly more positive way of viewing this . Research I have read seems to show that there are individuals who are metabolically healthy because of the way the fat that they create is distributed and who thus seem able to better withstand whatever happens to severe diabetics . If you have now managed to control your blood sugars despite still having a lot of weight to lose, then maybe that is because you fall towards the metabolically healthy obese individual side of the scales?

Maybe that means you are not doomed at all, instead you might be able to congratulate yourself on how relatively metabolically healthy you are, Clearly getting fitter, slimmer etc is still hugely important for your own personal well being but may be knowing that your body has actually coped with its sugar load way better than many of us , might allow you to approach the next phase of your fitness and health plans in a different frame of mind. It may also mean that you can actually cope with slightly higher carbs in your diet without those having a dire affect on your blood sugar control giving you perhaps a wider range of options as to what you can eat within a calorie restricted weight loss attempt .

http://www.todaysdietitian.com/newarchives/0117p30.shtml

I think my HbA1c at diagnosis was lower than most because I had already cut out the higher carb foods a year or so before, so it's not really a fair comparison. I can't eat more carbs than anyone else, I need less than 50g to lose weight. Calories don't seem to work at all with me. If they are carb calories, even from vegetables then I put on weight on 1200 cals a day. Having around 150g carbs per day for 4 days put up my fasting BGs. It's a shame because I was enjoying the extra legumes. Hey ho.

 

[CherryAA]

I think my HbA1c at diagnosis was lower than most because I had already cut out the higher carb foods a year or so before, so it's not really a fair comparison. I can't eat more carbs than anyone else, I need less than 50g to lose weight. Calories don't seem to work at all with me. If they are carb calories, even from vegetables then I put on weight on 1200 cals a day. Having around 150g carbs per day for 4 days put up my fasting BGs. It's a shame because I was enjoying the extra legumes. Hey ho.

I think there might be a fair category - in so far as - many of us seem to get to this kind of point - i.e. we start off with a really high level ( whether we know it or not) - we cut out carbs, we lose weight on the new regime relatively quickly and our hba1C comes down to near normal levels, then at some stage it starts to get a lot tougher - both you and I are in the same position on that.

Its hard to discern if there is anyone in our forum who is both very overweight, was eating a lot of carbs at diagnosis AND had a fairly low hab1C on diagnosis - if there are then those people would seem to be the one's who might benefit least from low carbing in terms of bringing the hba1C down - but who knows if they exist or not .

I went very low carb immediately i.e. 30g, so for me my relaxation is looking at whether I can do 50g or not - nowhere near 150g . In so far as I've seen any numbers referred to for quantity then a minimum of about 400 g of mixed total fresh vegetables seems like fairly good number base number in terms of getting the nutrients veggies provide and that should be around 20g of carbs. I would have to be eating an awful lot of vegetables to get close to 150g.

I have seen other research that suggests that one reason for eating high density ( i.e. high fat) foods - is that if you put a lot of volume in your stomach then that itself can give rise to a blood sugar response no matter what it is ( that comes from Dr Bernstein) i.e. the human body is not really tuned to large volumes.

Another thing I read was that ruminants , whilst they eat plant foods, actually process that as saturated fat by some kind of process that takes place in ruminant processing - so whilst it looks like they are eating plants in practice its still saturated fats they are burning - no clue how that works! no doubt there are those on here who would know why 1

 

[ringi]

To control my BG (35 at peak (mostly 17 at the time) down to 5.5 post meal) and to lose weight I must eat few carbs. But to lose much weight I must also reduce my proteins and fats - mostly by skinking breakfast and lunch on some days. I expect a lot of people are the same.

Hence my hba1c will correlation with weight loss just by both the hba1c and weight loss correlating with the same set of actions.

It is also looking like we each have a "personal fat threshold" and when(if) we get (and remain) under it the BG is much lower even when we eat carbs at a few meals.

 

[Tannith]

I have been on a fairly strict low carb diet for 4 months and my hbac is now at normal,(37) though my BGs are usually 6.3. i don't mind the low carb diet as I like veggies, but I don't really fancy the prospect of doing it forever to keep my BG down. I am considering, (with some trepidation) doing the lose 10% of weight thing. I understand this would lower BG for good by reversing the prediabetes. And that provided you keep the weight off you no longer need to low carb. What do others find in this respect?

 

[bulkbiker]

I am considering, (with some trepidation) doing the lose 10% of weight thing. I understand this would lower BG for good by reversing the prediabetes. And that provided you keep the weight off you no longer need to low carb.

There is no assurance that it will work.. of the initial 11 people who were in the trial only 7 reported maintaining the benefits after 3 months.. I haven't seen any further follow ups reported.

 

[ringi]

I should love to see the result of a trail that got people counting their carbs and "eating to their meter" hence learning what to do long term before doing the Newcastle Diet.

I would be happy if I could go back to eating cake at the weekend even if I had to be low carb on week days....

 

[Tannith]

I think Newcastle did a second trial with 30 people. They are doing more but the results won't be published til this time next year. I am convinced by the "lose pancreatic fat theory". No diet can be expected to continue to work if you put the weight back on. You just have to make sure you don't. I wouldn't use the shakes, just a low calorie diet made up of normal food. Unless possibly for a short time to boost weight loss. I don't think they would be good for you long term. In a scientific trial they have their uses in that everybody is consuming exactly the same.