1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Could this be Dawn Phenomenon?

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by **shell**, Jun 27, 2017.

  1. **shell**

    **shell** Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Hello!
    I am after people's thoughts on this...

    I have found myself waking up on a morning, with my alarm, feeling awful. Splitting head, groggy and even more tired than when I went to bed.
    My bloods are at about 5mmol and the same when I wake up (about 7.5hrs) later if not slightly raised by 1 or 2. I'm having a late tea at around 20:30, usually about two hours before bed.
    Could this be Dawn Phenomenon? If so should I be looking at testing every hour or two and for how many days? I work full time so an interrupted night sleep (for me or the BF) is never fun.
    Suggestions etc are most appreciated.

    xoxox
     
    • Hug Hug x 1
  2. azure

    azure Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    9,780
    Likes Received:
    7,400
    Trophy Points:
    178
    Could you be sleeping through a hypo? That would give you a headache.

    DP usually causes a rise in BS from early morning (eg 4am or around there)
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  3. GrantGam

    GrantGam Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,604
    Likes Received:
    1,579
    Trophy Points:
    178
    A freestyle Libre sensor would help your to ascertain whether you're having overnight hypos. They're not cheap, but would mean an undisturbed sleep.

    If you were to have dawn phenomenon then you'd almost definitely be waking up with BG's well over 5mmol/l-7mmol/l and would need to correct the high with rapid acting insulin.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  4. catinahat

    catinahat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,160
    Likes Received:
    12,180
    Trophy Points:
    198
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,447
    Likes Received:
    18,378
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Could be suffering after the somogyi phenomena effect?
    Although it's noted that you normally wake on a higher bg than going to bed, you could have court it just before the rise had finished.
    Only way to know would be to monitor through the night.
    Maybe set alarm for 3am and test?
     
  6. **shell**

    **shell** Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    70
    Trophy Points:
    68
    Thanks guys!!!
    Just thinking about it further ...
    I tend to get to work and have breakfast there (3 hours after my alarm clock) and my bloods have usually increased to 9s 10s so I have been altering my basal rate (I'm on a pump) to manage the higher lev. I had also thought the higher bloods around 9am might be related to being disconnected from the pump whilst I showered.

    I'm definitely checking though the night now!

    xoxox
     
    • Hug Hug x 1
  7. azure

    azure Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    9,780
    Likes Received:
    7,400
    Trophy Points:
    178
    @**shell** That sounds like a Waking Rise. If I get up and delay breakfast my levels go up too. So I either take a tiny bolus without food on waking or eat a small amount and bolus.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    23,618
    Likes Received:
    19,618
    Trophy Points:
    278
    Quite possibly, but I tend to find if I miss breakfast my bg levels will be in double figures within an hour or two (if I don't take insulin to counteract the rise).

    As a suggestion maybe try having a small snack before you leave home (you'll still need to bolus) and then have your breakfast later when you get to work, I think eating upon waking shuts off the waking rise as a result of the overnight fast. Good luck.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  9. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

    Messages:
    13,447
    Likes Received:
    18,378
    Trophy Points:
    298
    Now that part could be a glucose dump. Mine normally increases by 2-3mmol/l although I am type2 on insulin and extremely insulin resistant.
    Some of us are eating a protein immediately on rising to prevent this increase which reflects on our hba1c.
    I'm not sure if type1s find this a solution too?
     
  10. noblehead

    noblehead Type 1 · Guru
    Retired Moderator

    Messages:
    23,618
    Likes Received:
    19,618
    Trophy Points:
    278
    Personally it would add to the bg rise if I didn't bolus for it @ickihun
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. azure

    azure Type 1 · Expert

    Messages:
    9,780
    Likes Received:
    7,400
    Trophy Points:
    178
    You could try eating your breakfast soon after waking to see if that helps. I think it might well :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Odin004

    Odin004 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    149
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Hi @**shell** - I agree wtih @azure and @noblehead - I use the Dexcom G5, so I can see exactly what my sugars are doing - for me, the very act of getting out of bed and moving around causes my sugars to rise noticeably; I need about 2 units to counteract this; and this does seem to "reset" things somewhat. Perhaps a small meal on waking (with insulin) would be a good idea, just to see if it changes anything?

    As for the feelings of grogginess when you wake up, this doesn't sound like the Dawn Phenomenon - but as @azure says, it's possible you're experiencing hypos during the night - the Libre would be a great idea to get to grips with this and find out what's going on (even if you only use it for a short time).

    In the mean time, you say your sugars are around 5 before bed - personally, I feel this is a bit on the low side before sleeping; just as an experiment, why don't you try going to bed with sugars of around 7 or 8, just for a couple of nights - and see if you still feel groggy in the morning? This way, even if your sugars are dropping overnight (before coming back up in the morning) this may avoid you actually going hypo while you sleep - and if you find that you feel fine in the mornings, it's a fair bet that hypos were the culprit! You also say you eat late - so, could I also suggest ensuring that your meal-time insulin is out of your system before you sleep - just in case this is contributing to low sugars overnight. Hope this helps!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    #12 Odin004, Jun 28, 2017 at 8:00 PM
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2017
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook