Couple of questions

[woollygal]

So I’m back on it. Today is the first day.
For lunch I had two diet dr recipes that I’ll put below. Both are keto, afterwards even after say 2.5 hours I was over 8 and had started at 5.4.
Now could it be that I had too large an amount and that caused them to go higher?
Also I’m still not sure about going as strict as 10mg of carbs a day as at the moment I still can’t stomach the thought, but I’m thinking 20g would be ok, but if my diabetes didn’t respond to the 10mg does that mean I’m on a hiding to nothing buy going up to 20mg. I do know that is still keto.
https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/keto-zucchini-walnut-salad
https://www.dietdoctor.com/recipes/chicken-and-mushrooms-with-tomato-cream-sauce/servings/1

 

[MrsA2]

please @woollygal stop setting unrealistic goals. You've fallen off the wagon for a few days. That won't resolve itself in less than 24 hours! You may have to go through the keto flu for a couple of weeks, or it may be sooner.
Rather than thinking carb total just focus on what your meter shows you. Not all carbsa re the same, and they are different for each of us. On paper. Peppers hold be fine for me but they most definitely are not.
Eat only very low carb foods but dont restrict the quantity at first. Your body is still crying out for sugar. Give your body enough low carb for it not to be hungry and it will reset over time.

 

[woollygal]

please @woollygal stop setting unrealistic goals. You've fallen off the wagon for a few days. That won't resolve itself in less than 24 hours! You may have to go through the keto flu for a couple of weeks, or it may be sooner.
Rather than thinking carb total just focus on what your meter shows you. Not all carbsa re the same, and they are different for each of us. On paper. Peppers hold be fine for me but they most definitely are not.
Eat only very low carb foods but dont restrict the quantity at first. Your body is still crying out for sugar. Give your body enough low carb for it not to be hungry and it will reset over time.

Sorry,it really was just a question, I was incredibly full afterwards and thought maybe the quantity could of given it a rise. My sugars aren’t too bad actually, I hit a 4 a little while ago.
I’m trying to be more food adventurous and still be keto which is a new thing. The on,y reason I managed the strictness before was because I ate the same thing every day and didn’t really have much else other than meat or dairy.

it really was just a question so that I can make sure I’m doing the right thing.

 

[HSSS]

Just for record keto means ketosis. Not a specific number of carbs. Some people reach ketosis at as high as 50g or even 60g. The 20g is usually used as that’s the level just about everyone gets there at. It could be higher. You have a ketone meter don’t you? That’ll tell you about ketosis.
As mentioned in the other thread a few people oddly do better slightly higher. Possibly some sort of insulin sparing going on (speculation here). Try it and see. But it’ll take a bit of time to recover from the the wagon falling of recent days so a little. More patience yet is required.

 

[woollygal]

Just for record keto means ketosis. Not a specific number of carbs. Some people reach ketosis at as high as 50g or even 60g. The 20g is usually used as that’s the level just about everyone gets there at. It could be higher. You have a ketone meter don’t you? That’ll tell you about ketosis.
As mentioned in the other thread a few people oddly do better slightly higher. Possibly some sort of insulin sparing going on (speculation here). Try it and see. But it’ll take a bit of time to recover from the the wagon falling of recent days so a little. More patience yet is required.

I do yes. To be honest I think i hit ketosis once when I got to 1.4 or 5. The rest of the time even after exercise I only got as high as 0.8.

 

[Mr_Pot]

It seems to me that you keep changing things and not waiting long enough to see the effect before you do something else, or you set yourself targets you can't keep to. Why not go fairly low carb, say 60g a day or whatever you can easily achieve and see where you are after say 2 months? It's a cliché but true that it is a marathon not a sprint, you seem to be trying to sprint and falling over.

 

[Riva_Roxaban]

It seems to me that you keep changing things and not waiting long enough to see the effect before you do something else, or you set yourself targets you can't keep to.

I have to agree with this.

 

[woollygal]

It seems to me that you keep changing things and not waiting long enough to see the effect before you do something else, or you set yourself targets you can't keep to. Why not go fairly low carb, say 60g a day or whatever you can easily achieve and see where you are after say 2 months? It's a cliché but true that it is a marathon not a sprint, you seem to be trying to sprint and falling over.

I agree,
That’s what I am trying to do, it needs to be achievable with me going back to work. I think the 10g was me trying to o achieve to much but I was on lockdown and it was the perfect opportunity to do something that once life gets going again would be a lot harder.
To be fair I did do the last one for two months. I knew I’d be changing it a bit to go back to work because I know doing so strict and working might not work well.
If have done it for longer but with Easter coming up I knew dr would be off with the kids for the holidays so needed to get bloods done and speak to her before then as I should be back to work on 12 April.

 

[Maco]

Honestly I don't have a clue about Keto, but the amount of fat your eating seems high for the amount of calories your eating. Could that be affecting your insulin resistance?

 

[HSSS]

I do yes. To be honest I think i hit ketosis once when I got to 1.4 or 5. The rest of the time even after exercise I only got as high as 0.8.

Ketosis is like pregnancy as far as I understand. You are or you aren’t producing ketones. Although the size may vary. Why do you think it’s not ketosis under 1?

Perhaps someone else can help here @bulkbiker you’re a long term user of a ketone meter that comes to mind. Any thoughts?

 

[HSSS]

Honestly I don't have a clue about Keto, but the amount of fat your eating seems high for the amount of calories your eating. Could that be affecting your insulin resistance?

Why do you think fat causes insulin resistance.

Keto is high fat and if you were to count macros it’s a big % (although to me that means higher than usually advocated rather than blocks of lard) and calories are not really a thing of concern unless extreme in either direction. And keto has been shown to reduce not increase IR.

 

[Maco]

Why do you think fat causes insulin resistance.

Keto is high fat and if you were to count macros it’s a big % (although to me that means higher than usually advocated rather than blocks of lard) and calories are not really a thing of concern unless extreme in either direction. And keto has been shown to reduce not increase IR.

High fat diets have been proven to cause insulin resistance. I count macros everyday (Im a bodybuilder) & I dont eat more than 40g of fat a day so dont agree its a high %. In terms of calories, I meant how many calories are coming from fat content.

It was simply a suggestion based on what I've said about fat & IR.

Just to add, I thought Keto was known to cause IR not improve it?

 

[woollygal]

Ketosis is like pregnancy as far as I understand. You are or you aren’t. Although the size may vary. Why do you think it’s not ketosis under 1?

Perhaps someone else can help here @bulkbiker you’re a long term user of a ketone meter that comes to mind. Any thoughts?

When I looked on google [think it was diet dr] dietary ketosis was up to1.3 and ketosis to lose weight so where you really need to be was 1.4 and above ( this is from emery so might be a bit off)

 

[Hotpepper20000]

High fat diets have been proven to cause insulin resistance.

Do you have some studies I could read about this?

 

[HSSS]

High fat diets have been proven to cause insulin resistance. I count macros everyday (Im a bodybuilder) & I dont eat more than 40g of fat a day so dont agree its a high %. In terms of calories, I meant how many calories are coming from fat content.

It was simply a suggestion based on what I've said about fat & IR.

Just to add, I thought Keto was known to cause IR not improve it?

Keto definitely does not cause IR. Carbs cause IR not fats, particularly in type 2. What your source may well be mistaking is glucose sparing due to the diet (or physiological iR NOT pathological as in type 2 and quite different). Or the theory it’s all above visceral fat stifling the process (which to be fair may be the cause of diabetes T2 for some cases but definitely not all). There’s a huge amount of pure rubbish and partial distorted “facts” written about keto by people that quite frankly don’t know what they are talking about but the sound bite suits their agenda.

I’m not going to derail this thread further but there’s strong evidence for Keto undoing IR and very little for fats being the cause so I dispute your claim. That is the entire basis of keto for diabetes (type 2, although some type 1 also use its benefits).

I wasn’t suggesting your diet was high % fat but that keto is and should be. The idea is that fats form a high % of your diet, carbs very small (to initiate and maintain nutritional ketosis and fat burning /adaptation) and protein to meet your needs as normal. See here https://www.diabetes.co.uk/keto/, here https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/keto and for safety and clarity here https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb/with-diabetes-medications. If we want to continue this conversation it should probably go on a new thread.

 

[HSSS]

When I looked on google [think it was diet dr] dietary ketosis was up to1.3 and ketosis to lose weight so where you really need to be was 1.4 and above (this is from emery so might be a bit off)

A quick google images search shows some variation - like everything that gets measured and interpreted.

Some show nutritional ketosis beginning from anything over 0, others from 0.3 or 0.5. Optimal from about 1 to 1.5. Optimal doesn’t mean it’s not happening at all below this though just not as efficiently perhaps.

Is the goal weight loss of bgl control (or both)?

 

[Goonergal]

A number of posts have been deleted for bickering and derailing the thread. Those who wish to discuss insulin resistance and its causes should do this in a new thread.

Further derailing posts on this thread will be deleted.


(Edited for typo)

 

[woollygal]

A quick google images search shows some variation - like everything that gets measured and interpreted.

Some show nutritional ketosis beginning from anything over 0, others from 0.3 or 0.5. Optimal from about 1 to 1.5. Optimal doesn’t mean it’s not happening at all below this though just not as efficiently perhaps.

Is the goal weight loss of bgl control (or both)?

Basically I’ve always struggled to low carb and work because every few weeks I would feel rotten for about a week, no energy etc. So when working id end up eating things I shouldn’t to get me through the day.
Not horrendous things but things that weren’t overly perfect.
I figured it was probably that every few weeks my overall sugars in my body would drop, my body would have a hissy fir at the lower sugars and do everything it can to get me to put them back up. The one thing that will get me to eat something I shouldn’t is making me feel ill if I’m working.
So during this lockdown I thought, this is the perfect time to really force things down. If I feel rotten it doesn’t matter because I’m home.
I also know that weight doesn’t help diabetes so wanted to lose weight anc well nothing works so thought going strict and going into ketosis might help. That’s why I started the intermittent fasting. So sugars were first then weight.

so basically yes I have put myself under time pressure because I should be back at work on the 12 April and do I wanted it sorted by then, so I would have those weeks where I struggled and felt rotten because my sugars were already down.

hence why I was so disappointed last week because I’m going to be going back to work having failed to reach that point.
So possibly going to go back to having times where I feel lousy and struggling to do the hours I need to do.

having said that, having now been so strict although I didn’t like the food as it was so plain and Samey, I did feel better, I slept a lot better.

but it needs to be sustainable and I think to be honest the restrictiveness really played into old eating problems so it was all or nothing. So need to be careful with that.

so that’s why I think I struggle now with getting my head around increasing carbs but having a varied diet. Also because I’m very much a throw in ingredients rather than a weigh and measure everything kind of person. I knew exactly what I ate before as it was the same. Mixing it up means being far more methodical and careful.

so in terms of why I chose to be strict it was to do with both. Because both are linked. But overall the priority was my sugars to see if I could get them to a level where my body wouldn’t punish me every so often because it decided it wants sugar.

but in terms of going back to work and not getting sucked into the restrictiveness etc and be able to sustain this for longer I need to go a bit higher.
I’m also very anxious about going back to work and trying to do all this food stuff well and work etc. I am very much a home person and so being in lockdown is fine for me. It’s the going back to work that causes the problems

map sorry yes mainly sugars to get rid of the feeling lousy but weight as well so I feel better in clothes and feel fitter

 

[HSSS]

I think many of us eat from the same pool of meals. I guess it just varies how big that pool is. You have a couple more weeks to faff around looking for work suitable meals so you have a decent sized pool to work with

 

[woollygal]

I think many of us eat from the same pool of meals. I guess it just varies how big that pool is. You have a couple more weeks to faff around looking for work suitable meals so you have a decent sized pool to work with[/QUOTE

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