Covid/Coronavirus and diabetes - the numbers

greenhowt · May 21, 2020

Given government has stated 25% of all those who died were also diabetic I don't understand why we are not included on the list of those at most risk ??. When a vaccine does become available it will those on the 'at most risk' list who will be given them first.

One thing I'm not clear about is whether increased glucose levels to aid the immune system is a good thing or not for CV-19 ??

MTS1980 · May 21, 2020

Mike d said:
You have a very good command over the English language. Far better than my Urdu @MTS1980

Oh no no nothing special just the basic chit chat I'm sure ur urdu is better than my English ur just being modest

wanderingcoda · May 21, 2020

Hi all, relatively newly diagnosed diabetic here! I was pretty anxious before diagnosis and then more anxious with it since the diagnosis was pretty rough (took a while to be properly diagnosed T1 so I just thought I was dying of high blood sugars all the time and then hypoing all the time and thought I was dying of that) and then I started to get control when they finally got me on insulin/sorted my ratios and then COVID followed swiftly so I've basically been an anxious mess all year! I'm also a teacher so in theory may be back to school next week (my blood glucose shot up to 10.7 when that news came out!) and schools are saying they've accepted they won't be able to socially distance so with the data/reality in mind I had two questions. I'm T1, 28 and was super proud of getting my BMI down (18-19 atm) and hba1c down from 105 to 44 in 3 months.

1) Since I'm young is my risk actually worse than the general population - I see its so low but does my low hba1c and low BMI compromise this? I also live and work in deprived areas in London and have to tube in idk if that would be a factor or not). I'm simultaneously willing myself to be less 'at risk' so I can feel less anxious/at ease as things go back to normal (as I assume I won't be able to 'hide' forever) but I'm also worried my employers will find out under 40s aren't at risk and will call me in before I'm ready ...
2) If low BMI and low hba1c are risk factors should I be doing anything about this? All the advice is 'eat well', 'exercise well' but I'm now worried I'm 'too' controlled and should I ... 'let go' a bit? Seems silly though ... I also have a wedding dress to fit in to (whenever that wedding may be now ...) so I don't want to let go too much!!
Any advice?
Thanks all xxx

Mr_Pot · May 21, 2020

greenhowt said:
Given government has stated 25% of all those who died were also diabetic I don't understand why we are not included on the list of those at most risk ??. When a vaccine does become available it will those on the 'at most risk' list who will be given them first.

One thing I'm not clear about is whether increased glucose levels to aid the immune system is a good thing or not for CV-19 ??

The key words in your quote are "were also diabetic" which does not mean that diabetes was the main factor in their death or could be no factor at all. Due to age being the big discriminator, I suspect a high percentage of those dying also had grey hair, false teeth or arthritis, but it is unlikely this contributed to their death.
The additional risk of being diabetic is complex and there are many factors to consider such as diabetes type and HbA1c. I suggest you read post #95, if you haven't already done so, to get a scientific view.

I really don't know the answer to the second part of your question but my guess would be to have normal glucose levels would be safest if you are not in danger of hypos.

Xtrius · May 21, 2020

T2 and scientist?
I am T1(since 1986)and journalist (BA).
The whole article is about something that I am waiting to be spread out by media due to such presentations: "diabetes melitus is contagious!!"
The diabetic immune system is affected, as a fact. How many individuals suffering of diabetes have died strictly of CV19 and not because of diabetic complications...?!?
Keeping tight the disease makes you almost normal.

Lupf · May 21, 2020

wanderingcoda said:
Hi all, relatively newly diagnosed diabetic here! I was pretty anxious before diagnosis and then more anxious with it since the diagnosis was pretty rough (took a while to be properly diagnosed T1 so I just thought I was dying of high blood sugars all the time and then hypoing all the time and thought I was dying of that) and then I started to get control when they finally got me on insulin/sorted my ratios and then COVID followed swiftly so I've basically been an anxious mess all year! I'm also a teacher so in theory may be back to school next week (my blood glucose shot up to 10.7 when that news came out!) and schools are saying they've accepted they won't be able to socially distance so with the data/reality in mind I had two questions. I'm T1, 28 and was super proud of getting my BMI down (18-19 atm) and hba1c down from 105 to 44 in 3 months.

1) Since I'm young is my risk actually worse than the general population - I see its so low but does my low hba1c and low BMI compromise this? I also live and work in deprived areas in London and have to tube in idk if that would be a factor or not). I'm simultaneously willing myself to be less 'at risk' so I can feel less anxious/at ease as things go back to normal (as I assume I won't be able to 'hide' forever) but I'm also worried my employers will find out under 40s aren't at risk and will call me in before I'm ready ...
2) If low BMI and low hba1c are risk factors should I be doing anything about this? All the advice is 'eat well', 'exercise well' but I'm now worried I'm 'too' controlled and should I ... 'let go' a bit? Seems silly though ... I also have a wedding dress to fit in to (whenever that wedding may be now ...) so I don't want to let go too much!!
Any advice?
Thanks all xxx

Congrats and well done on getting your HbA1c down from 105 to 44 in three months. It took me five years. And it looks like you've lost weight, too.
As we keep saying, we cannot give you specific advice, each individual is different. However let me point out that at your age your overall risk is actually quite low. While these new results show a higher average risk for T1 than for T2, nobody under 50 who died had T1. The increases in risk factors for BMI below 20 and HbA1c below 48 are small for T1 and not statistically significant, so there is no point to fret about.
The main factor is age and we can't do anything about it, but you can relax. Keeping T1 under control seems also sensible. There are other people on this forum which can help you with T1 specific questions, but from me it is again, congratulations and best wishes.

Tannith · May 21, 2020

greenhowt said:
Given government has stated 25% of all those who died were also diabetic I don't understand why we are not included on the list of those at most risk ??. When a vaccine does become available it will those on the 'at most risk' list who will be given them first.

One thing I'm not clear about is whether increased glucose levels to aid the immune system is a good thing or not for CV-19 ??

73% of those who died were over 70. They are not included in the "shielded" group. T2 diabetes doubles your risk of dying of covid if you get it. So does being male. Should all men be on the shielded list?

MTS1980 · May 21, 2020

HSSS said:
Didn’t mean anything other than trying to be reassuring. Nowhere really knows their mortality rates yet. Too much uncertainty around who is getting symptoms enough to even suspect infection, who is getting tested and therefore diagnosed, how deaths are being recorded....it’s all guesstimates and possibly wildly inaccurate for the whole population. If many are infected and recover without positive tests the mortality rates look far worse than they actually are. If deaths are being wrongly classified that too effects rates.
It’s very scary right now for people, especially those identified in vulnerable groups. My anxiety is being fuelled by many things not least scaremongering headlines. But. Hospital rates are just the worst, most serious tip of the iceberg and these are what we hear mostly. Realistically what can any of us do other than be as logical as possible : take appropriate precautions, manage our personal health, weight, bloods etc to the best of our ability and then try and focus on the positive stats and the odds for all being on survival and in many/most groups overwhelmingly so.

Thank you good sir no I exactly know what u mean and your point view ur 100 percent correct yes it’s all a guess right now doctors here few of them world class no nothing about it they are asking the Chinese doctors for better understanding because they off course have previous experience with this disease some do suggest taking anti virals very early a woman I know says she said took herbs and got better everyone has theories nothing concrete I wish you only the best in life and you are right it’s the anxiety that’s messing up my mind but how can I avoid it this is what everyone is taking about 24/7 because I guess they are scared too if this overwhelms our system we all are in very serious trouble some say testing is low that’s why number is wrong some say this is already the 2nd phase no one knows so Im trying as hard as I can to get information because in the end Information might save all of us Pakistan has only 6 hospitals only 6 that can compete on a U.K. level in terms of experts and facilities so that’s a concern too take very good care of your self

KK123 · May 21, 2020

Tannith said:
73% of those who died were over 70. They are not included in the "shielded" group. T2 diabetes doubles your risk of dying of covid if you get it. So does being male. Should all men be on the shielded list?

So what if you are diabetic and male? Whichever way you look at 'risk', if you compare yourself with someone exactly like yourself without diabetes, then you are at a higher risk than them, ergo diabetes adds to it.

Bill_St · May 22, 2020

KK123 said:
So what if you are diabetic and male? Whichever way you look at 'risk', if you compare yourself with someone exactly like yourself without diabetes, then you are at a higher risk than them, ergo diabetes adds to it.

73% is NOT the number you should be looking at.
The number you should observe is the 98% who don’t even proceed to any symptoms.
The higher risk is for those who are in ITU - a small proportion.

Just take the precautions clearly listed on this and other sites, keep the viral load low and continue to build some immunity, whether by minimal personal exposure or future vaccine.

Being shielded just decreases the viral load so makes you more reliant upon a future vaccine.

KK123 · May 22, 2020

Bill_St said:
73% is NOT the number you should be looking at.
The number you should observe is the 98% who don’t even proceed to any symptoms.
The higher risk is for those who are in ITU - a small proportion.

Just take the precautions clearly listed on this and other sites, keep the viral load low and continue to build some immunity, whether by minimal personal exposure or future vaccine.

Being shielded just decreases the viral load so makes you more reliant upon a future vaccine.

I think you've misunderstood the point I was making whilst responding to a specific comment in someone else's post which was simply if you have diabetes you are more at risk than someone without it regardless of how low that risk may be, I wasn't looking at any numbers. I'm not sure how you would 'build some immunity by minimal exposure' other than a vaccination?

derry60 · May 22, 2020

Then you have people in their 80s 90s and one 104 who have survived this. Unfortunately some elderly who have actually survived this virus do not make the news, lets face it, its not sensational enough. Apart from the odd elderly person who may have made the news, many I think have not. Lets face it, the mainstream media love to scare us, and have done a pretty ******* good job. How many elderly have had this virus and have shown no symptoms? We just don't know, no more than the medics know. I am pre-diabetic and have Heart Disease. I asked my doctor why was I not on the vulnerable list. This is how the phone conversation went. " Hello just phoning to ask why I have not had a letter due to my condition, "Doc" because it is not on the Gov list. I then asked " I know this is why I am asking you if I am vulnerable, Doc replied "No but you are at very very high risk" "Me" "So should I go out or stay home?" "Doc" no stay at home, only go out to shop for food" "Me" "so if I caught this virus, the outcome could be deadly?" Doc" well yes" Me" So why am I not on the vulnerable list? You can see where this is going peeps.. "Me" "So the outcome if I were to get this virus could be fatal because I have heart disease, yet I am allowed to go shopping for food, yet I am to stay at home any other time? "Doc" "Yes" I am less likely to catch it walking out in the street away from people than in a supermarket, this is ridiculous I explained. I then asked "Then why in America people with Heart Disease are on the vulnerable list?. Why are American doctors presenting themselves on TV reading out the vunerable list with Heart Disease as one of the dangerous ones? and the people who have died of this virus?" Does anybody understand any of this? because I don't. So much for the Gov list, there are so many illnesses that people have who are not on the list. All we can do is be careful and take responsibility for ourselves, protect ourselves. Seem's to me, people are just doing what they want now..You would not think that we are in lock down. Beaches packed. I could not believe it when Boris said that people could go to the beach and sunbathe. As soon as those words passed his lips I know what would happen. If people cannot go abroad, they will flock to the beaches and they have and will again in warm weather. I would be very suprised if the "R" number does not go up again. I live in a Coastal town and our Mayor and council told people to stay away, but they have not listened. Selfish people.

edited by moderator to comply with forum rules on language

Tannith · May 22, 2020

derry60 said:
Then you have people in their 80s 90s and one 104 who have survived this. Unfortunately some elderly who have actually survived this virus do not make the news, lets face it, its not sensational enough. Apart from the odd elderly person who may have made the news, many I think have not. Lets face it, the mainstream media love to scare us, and have done a pretty ******* good job. How many elderly have had this virus and have shown no symptoms? We just don't know, no more than the medics know. I am pre-diabetic and have Heart Disease. I asked my doctor why was I not on the vulnerable list. This is how the phone conversation went. " Hello just phoning to ask why I have not had a letter due to my condition, "Doc" because it is not on the Gov list. I then asked " I know this is why I am asking you if I am vulnerable, Doc replied "No but you are at very very high risk" "Me" "So should I go out or stay home?" "Doc" no stay at home, only go out to shop for food" "Me" "so if I caught this virus, the outcome could be deadly?" Doc" well yes" Me" So why am I not on the vulnerable list? You can see where this is going peeps.. "Me" "So the outcome if I were to get this virus could be fatal because I have heart disease, yet I am allowed to go shopping for food, yet I am to stay at home any other time? "Doc" "Yes" I am less likely to catch it walking out in the street away from people than in a supermarket, this is ridiculous I explained. I then asked "Then why in America people with Heart Disease are on the vulnerable list?. Why are American doctors presenting themselves on TV reading out the vunerable list with Heart Disease as one of the dangerous ones? and the people who have died of this virus?" Does anybody understand any of this? because I don't. So much for the Gov list, there are so many illnesses that people have who are not on the list. All we can do is be careful and take responsibility for ourselves, protect ourselves. Seem's to me, people are just doing what they want now..You would not think that we are in lock down. Beaches packed. I could not believe it when Boris said that people could go to the beach and sunbathe. As soon as those words passed his lips I know what would happen. If people cannot go abroad, they will flock to the beaches and they have and will again in warm weather. I would be very suprised if the "R" number does not go up again. I live in a Coastal town and our Mayor and council told people to stay away, but they have not listened. Selfish people.

edited by moderator to comply with forum rules on language

The GP does not decide who is on the "extremely vulnerable" list. That is decided by the Government, doubtless decided by their scientific and medical advisers. Those are on the list: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19. This does not include heart disease. Things that only increase the risk slightly, like T2 (which doubles the basic 1% risk to 2%) are not considered sufficient to merit staying indoors completely, which is considered bad for health as well as difficult to do. Those at the very highest risk, next to the extremely vulnerable are the elderly. Over 80's have an 18% higher risk than the rest of the population but are still not classed as "extremely vulnerable"

Max68 · May 22, 2020

Hypertension has been listed in many "stats/tables" as a risk but isn't even on the clinically vulnerable list! I'm not going to try and second guess how the Government decide on who goes on these lists but some form of heart disease, diabetes or hypertension - that's an awful lot of people!!

KK123 · May 22, 2020

Tannith said:
The GP does not decide who is on the "extremely vulnerable" list. That is decided by the Government, doubtless decided by their scientific and medical advisers. Those are on the list: https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...ng-extremely-vulnerable-persons-from-covid-19. This does not include heart disease. Things that only increase the risk slightly, like T2 (which doubles the basic 1% risk to 2%) are not considered sufficient to merit staying indoors completely, which is considered bad for health as well as difficult to do. Those at the very highest risk, next to the extremely vulnerable are the elderly. Over 80's have an 18% higher risk than the rest of the population but are still not classed as "extremely vulnerable"

But the GP's DO decide whether anyone not on the extremely vulnerable list SHOULD be on it. That's because simply stating someone has a condition does not encapsulate any other conditions they have which when added to that condition, makes them extremely vulnerable.

Daphne917 · May 22, 2020

When my husband had his INR blood test last week he asked why he wasn’t on the shielding list - response ‘you’re obviously not vulnerable’ even though he has asthma, AFib, Parkinson’s and High BP! She didn’t even advise him that he was slightly vulnerable so I’m not sure what criteria they use.

Tannith · May 22, 2020

Max68 said:
Hypertension has been listed in many "stats/tables" as a risk but isn't even on the clinically vulnerable list! I'm not going to try and second guess how the Government decide on who goes on these lists but some form of heart disease, diabetes or hypertension - that's an awful lot of people!!

derry60 said:
Then you have people in their 80s 90s and one 104 who have survived this. Unfortunately some elderly who have actually survived this virus do not make the news, lets face it, its not sensational enough. Apart from the odd elderly person who may have made the news, many I think have not. Lets face it, the mainstream media love to scare us, and have done a pretty ******* good job. How many elderly have had this virus and have shown no symptoms? We just don't know, no more than the medics know. I am pre-diabetic and have Heart Disease. I asked my doctor why was I not on the vulnerable list. This is how the phone conversation went. " Hello just phoning to ask why I have not had a letter due to my condition, "Doc" because it is not on the Gov list. I then asked " I know this is why I am asking you if I am vulnerable, Doc replied "No but you are at very very high risk" "Me" "So should I go out or stay home?" "Doc" no stay at home, only go out to shop for food" "Me" "so if I caught this virus, the outcome could be deadly?" Doc" well yes" Me" So why am I not on the vulnerable list? You can see where this is going peeps.. "Me" "So the outcome if I were to get this virus could be fatal because I have heart disease, yet I am allowed to go shopping for food, yet I am to stay at home any other time? "Doc" "Yes" I am less likely to catch it walking out in the street away from people than in a supermarket, this is ridiculous I explained. I then asked "Then why in America people with Heart Disease are on the vulnerable list?. Why are American doctors presenting themselves on TV reading out the vunerable list with Heart Disease as one of the dangerous ones? and the people who have died of this virus?" Does anybody understand any of this? because I don't. So much for the Gov list, there are so many illnesses that people have who are not on the list. All we can do is be careful and take responsibility for ourselves, protect ourselves. Seem's to me, people are just doing what they want now..You would not think that we are in lock down. Beaches packed. I could not believe it when Boris said that people could go to the beach and sunbathe. As soon as those words passed his lips I know what would happen. If people cannot go abroad, they will flock to the beaches and they have and will again in warm weather. I would be very suprised if the "R" number does not go up again. I live in a Coastal town and our Mayor and council told people to stay away, but they have not listened. Selfish people.

edited by moderator to comply with forum rules on language

What heart medication do you take? Some medications cause you to go on the shielding list.

Mr_Pot · May 22, 2020

Am I missing something or can't you just decide to shield yourself if you think you need to?

Dusty911 · May 22, 2020

I think if you work and you shield without the letter you have no protection from being sacked.Tbh I'm not sure how protected you are even if you have the letter I have heard of people being told they'll be "let go " if they don't come in.

KK123 · May 22, 2020

Mr_Pot said:
Am I missing something or can't you just decide to shield yourself if you think you need to?

Hi, well you could obviously, but you would then be at the mercy of your Employers thinking you were trying to pull a fast one, without the 'letter' you would be classed as any other employee. Why then would an Employer say 'oh, yes, off you go for 12 weeks, we'll still pay you just because you're worried'. Personally, for anyone working (and especially those in a high risk occupation or those who would not be paid if they stayed at home, etc) the letter is at the very least an instruction to the Employer that they have a very vulnerable person whom they need to support and if not the letter, then being in the clinically vulnerable category which (should) force them to seriously consider your welfare. Whether anyone gets that support is a different matter of course! x

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