Croissant!!

You rebel!

Glad you got away with it. I've had a stinker today, woke with high blood and it's stubbornly refused to come down all day; I've taken about double my usual fast acting (which to be fair isn't exactly a lot) and it's still stuck in the 7's. So frustrating when this happens, so it's good to see someone else having more luck - nice one!!

Hi Hanna,

I had an eerily similar experience today with a croissant Hungry at work and the shop next door offered either croissant, chocolate or crisps!

Two hours later - bg 4.7

I'm guessing the fat content of the croissant slowed down the glucose rise and the carb content stimulated a bit of extra insulin production.

Not something to do every week but good to know the effect for when I'm stuck with not much choice.

xxx

I know this is an old thread, but I had the opposite experience this morning. I risked a croissant as it was all that was on offer, ate it with lots of butter hoping that would buffer it a bit (Oh, the sacrifices I make...) and an hour later I was at 9. After 2 hrs down to 6. I hadn't exercised though - perhaps that was the difference?

spinningwoman said:

I know this is an old thread, but I had the opposite experience this morning. I risked a croissant as it was all that was on offer, ate it with lots of butter hoping that would buffer it a bit (Oh, the sacrifices I make...) and an hour later I was at 9. After 2 hrs down to 6. I hadn't exercised though - perhaps that was the difference?

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Hi SW.

Surely though, you have told us you are not a Diabetic, so your levels would normally go down after a spike much quicker than a Diabetic. If I had a croissant I am sure the result would be very different.

Most Croissants average abour 38g carbs, half my daily carb intake so not exactly a snack....might also have been relevant to do a 3 hr test as there is around 20g fat which would tend to slow the absorption.

Hi, Cugila,
When I said in the other thread that I haven't been diagnosed as diabetic, I meant exactly that - I haven't been *diagnosed* - because I haven't been to the doctor and asked to be tested. I discovered that my BS numbers were high when my husband was picked up as being 'prediabetic' or possibly early T2 a couple of months ago during some tests for another condition - I had been pushing him for ages to get tested because he had all sorts of symptoms. He was being a baby about testing himself so I did it on me to show him it didn't hurt and found that my numbers were as bad as his, sometimes worse, but only if I ate carby food. He is the same. If we eat low-carb, our numbers are in the normal range, but if we don't, they aren't.

I haven't been to the doctor because the advice my husband got was the 'lose lots of weight and eat lots of carbs and don't self-test' which just made him give up because as soon as he eats carbs the weight piles back on and he spends half his life asleep and either depressed or so bad tempered that his life is miserable. As we have both been eating low-carb on and off (mostly on for me with mostly off recently until this for him) for about 5 years, there was no way I could believe that this was a good thing to do. When we started low-carbing, a lot of health problems disappeared for both of us - looking back, I believe I had BS problems back then too. And low carb is the only way my husband has ever lost weight - unfortunately he went back to a high carb diet and put it back on, but when he was on it it worked brilliantly for him.

We were also in the process of moving, so I thought I would sound out the new doctor rather than battling with the old one, but haven't got round to that yet. I couldn't see the point of getting myself saddled with an official diabetes (or even pre-diabetes) diagnosis when for the moment I can test myself and control it by diet, but I have no doubt that I'm in that spectrum somewhere. If I ate a 'normal diet' my BS would be at 9/10+ after every meal, and I would feel awful and presumably be storing up lots of problems for the future.

There must be millions of people like me, with pre-diabetes or in the early stages of developing T2, who have no idea and won't find out until they have serious symptoms. I just count myself lucky that a) I found out and b) I already knew about the low carb arguments and c) I found this forum.

I hope I'm not posting too much for a newbie, but I think I'm the sort of person that copes with things by finding out as much as I can and making a hobby of them, as someone put it in another thread. My husband is the opposite - he just wants to pretend it isn't happening and uses all the conflicting arguments to give up and say 'Oh, what's the point - how can anyone know what is right'.

SW you are not your husband !!! The only way to know for certain if you are diabetic is to go through the formal tests for diabetes. Until then you are not a diabetic and your blood sugar levels may be high after a meal but so are any non diabetics after a meal of carbs. It's how long they take to return to normal that separates diabetics from non diabetics.

Please go and see the doctor, you cannot diagnose yourself.

Sugarless Sue, I sort of understand what you mean, but it can't be true to say that a person is 'not a diabetic until they are diagnosed'. Lots of people are not diagnosed until very late on when they are already suffering from complications. Their diabetes doesn't suddenly appear in the doctor's office! At the moment, I don't really see how I would benefit from knowing definitely one way or the other.

Actually, the first post I made here back in May was to ask if there was any particular point in getting a formal diagnosis one way or the other. Nobody came up with any very good reason why it would be helpful. If I am pre-diabetic, or even diabetic, my diet is keeping it under control, as I know from my testing. If I'm not, this is the way I prefer to eat anyway and have been doing so for some years, so no harm done.

In any case, I need to be on the forum to know how best to help my husband, who has been diagnosed - and not given any help at all as a result, only discouragement from following the only diet that has ever helped him lose weight. I hope that's OK - I have read quite a few other posts from partners. There is no way he would read up on this himself at the moment.

I only explained my own position because I had the feeling I had confused Cugila in the other thread, and I only brought it up then because I didn't want to mislead anyone in our discussion about de-carbing potatoes. I'm not trying to pretend to be anything that I'm not.

Hi spinning woman.

Nobody is saying you are pretending to be a diabetic. It is just you have not been diagnosed yet you are posting as if you were diabetic. I think that you really would benefit from knowing one way or the other. Have you ever had a HbA1c test ? That is one benefit which would help you to know what the trend in your blood glucose levels are. If you were to (heaven forbid) have to go to hospital there would be problems if you were an undiagnosed diabetic, there are also other reasons why it would be better to know one way or the other rather than guess.

You can THINK you are a Diabetic but that is totally different from actually being one. I fail to see why you do not get a proper diagnosis one way or the other. The numbers you post often don't indicate a diabetic or even pre diabetic. They seem more like a non diabetic level. Especially the rapid return to normal levels after carb rich foods.

Now we are not allowed to diagnose on here and we certainly don't encourage anybody to self diagnose. You really do have to get a proper diagnosis. Some of the foods you advocate eating would certainly raise even a non diabetic's blood glucose levels.

The only confusion I have is why you persist in not having the test done and finding out for sure.

spinning woman.

This is your original post you refer to and the three answers which you were given. One of them being mine. My opinion at that time was to get a proper diagnosis. You never came back to us so we could discuss it further ?

viewtopic.php?f=18&t=8101&start=0

Cugila, I wonder if you have got me mixed up with someone else? Or is it just the croissant thread and the potato thread coming so close together? I posted about those things precisely because I would not normally eat them and certainly don't advocate them.

Unfortunately I have a job where I am frequently expected to eat food that other people, who don't know me, have prepared, and so it is important to me to know which foods I can occasionally take a risk on and which I can't, and what the result is likely to be if I end up eating something I shouldn't. Sometimes it seems to me that 'public food' in the country is subject to some kind of legislation which requires it to be at least 90% starch! I only posted on this 'croissant' thing because I was surprised to see that Hanadr had been able to eat one unscathed and wondered if it was the exercise which made the difference. And the potatoes, if you read the thread, was exactly about removing the starch - eating potato normally sends my numbers up, as I made clear.

I do appreciate that you wouldn't want to be encouraging anyone to stay away from their doctor, but that is up to me for now - I'm not even registered with a doctor yet, having just moved house. (Which as I think I explained back in that original thread was one of the reasons it didn't seem worth tussling with the unsympathetic doctor my husband saw.) When I do, I will talk to them and see what they think. I can't see any great urgency - I know my numbers are in the safe zone and I have had an HbA1C of 5.7. (Which I I did privately and was given the results of - my husband was just told by the doctor that his was 'borderline' and they wouldn't tell him the numbers at all - so not much advantage there, that I can see).

I'm not sure why this bothers you, since you agree that my numbers are normal and think I'm probably not diabetic. I have probably been posting too much recently, because my husband won't talk about it, so I'll back off a bit.

spinning woman.

I am not confusing you with anybody at all. The link I posted to your question goes straight to your initial post.

We would be remiss as Moderators on the forum not to give the advice to see your Dr when we think it necessary. However that choice is absolutely yours. Please feel free to continue to post your opinions or questions on the forum. Nobody wishes to stop you doing that. You do not need permission.

We would be remiss as Moderators on the forum not to give the advice to see your Dr when we think it necessary. However that choice is absolutely yours. Please feel free to continue to post your opinions or questions on the forum. Nobody wishes to stop you doing that. You do not need permission.

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This thread finally gives me the opportunity to chime in on this subject without criticizing a poster who's looking for help. You're criticizing some advice, and I'm criticizing your criticism.

I'm not formally diagnosed as a diabetic.

* I have LADA.

However........

* I DON'T have LADA

.........because I *totally* control it with diet. If I went in to be tested today, a doctor would say I'm well. Period.

There's a glaringly obvious trend among type 2 diabetics to get diagnosed, and "be" a diabetic. The tactic lets diabetics eat the sweets and flours they are addicted to while stroking each other with enablement talk.

And that's what you're doing. You are welcome to do as you please.

Type 2 diabetes is curable .......curable. And it doesn't take being diagnosed to cure it. Becoming "a diabetic" is anathema to curing diabetes. I recommend *not* becoming a diabetic. Instead, a person should change lifestyles until he/she is no longer diabetic.
..

veggienft,
what an odd argument! Regardless or not of using the word "diabetic", being told by a doctor and/or by a blood sugar meter that you sometimes have levels far above normal IS a diagnosis, whether or not it's put into words as "being diabetic" or "being prone occasionally to damagingly high blood sugar levels".
Being cured implies you have something for a time and then it goes away and you don't have it any more. If I strenuously control my blood sugar for ten years so it never goes above 5.5 and then in the eleventh year suddenly jump to eating only Big Macs and chocolate bars, your "argument" implies my blood sugar will still remain within the normal range. Somehow I don't think so!
I don't understand why you're criticizing the Moderators, who genuinely try to help people... your post doesn't help me and I think it's really confused.

veggienft,
I quite frequently disagree with some views about on diet (particularly on this part of the forum) but the last thing I detect on these forums in general is an
'obvious trend among type 2 diabetics to get diagnosed, and "be" a diabetic. The tactic lets diabetics eat the sweets and flours they are addicted to while stroking each other with enablement talk'
Most people on here are motivated to improve their condition by a variety of methods,
I have to say I sometimes wonder about your own motivation, I note that you (or someone with the same user name) is a member of a variety of forums for different conditions. Looking quickly (and I haven't read every post) it seems that you have coeliac disease and feel that you have become well informed about that condition but do you have diabetes?
As for myself, I have LADA..

spinningwoman said:

............but it can't be true to say that a person is 'not a diabetic until they are diagnosed'. Lots of people are not diagnosed until very late on when they are already suffering from complications. Their diabetes doesn't suddenly appear in the doctor's office! ..........................

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Spinningwoman - I agree with you entirely about this matter there really must be an extremely large number (quite possibly millions) of undiagnosed Type 2 diabetics out there who - almost inadvertently - because of accident of their diet - e.g. either because they eat a high fat and low carb diet or quite simply eat very little in the way of food i.e. a low calorie diet - are unlikely to be easily diagnosed as diabetic. That is, until either they change their diet in some way e.g. to higher carb or higher calorie - or, more worryingly, their diabetic condition deteriorates to such an extent that they reach a stage where they are doing - or even worse have done - untold damage to their bodies.

The fact that these people have not been diagnosed does not mean that they are non-diabetic.

In my opinion, if the medical authorities really wanted to find these undiagnosed diabetics they could do so without too much difficulty. Do they want to find them early and add to the current largely unmanageable mountain of Type 2 diabetics? Personally, I'm not convinced that they do - perhaps, it's more convenient for the health authorities to leave such people out there as undiagnosed Type 2 diabetics!

Phoenix,
Yes, in addition to LADA I have coeliac disease. I also have Graves hyperthyroid with associated heart arrhythmia. Again, they are in remission. I intentionally register on *a few* fora using one user name. I do this for a couple of purposes,

1. to point out that these autoimmune diseases are part of a common autoimmune syndrome which has a narrow line of causes, and

2. to point out the larger problem which my disease path reveals, that metabolic syndrome has the same narrow line of causes.

Most LADA never gets diagnosed. I only figured it out recently. Like 90% of diagnosed LADA sufferers I thought I was fighting back type 2 diabetes. I was like the proverbial slowly-boiled frog. I didn't get symptoms until adulthood, and I was able to treat them with a low-sugar diet .......type 2 diabetes. But after about 15 years my symptoms worsened. After about 24 years I discovered my intolerance of gluten through dietary elimination challenge.

It was precisely my other autoimmune conditions, and successful treatment with ag protein restriction, which made me realize I have LADA. If the circulatory portion of the syndrome is IGA autoimmune, it's not type 2.

Identifying with any one of these conditions or diseases, co-miserating with other sufferers, co-enabling the causes, and treating the symptoms ........is not the pathway to curing them .......if a cure is available.

It is.

I've learned a lot, and I continue to learn from these contacts. I don't argue that metformin and insulin are ineffective, but they don't address the causes of diabetes and metabolic syndrome. If I'm doing it wrong by prolonging insulin dependence 15 years longer (so far) than conventional treatment, then I need to know it.

Spend some time on these two sites:
http://www.zombieinstitute.net/General.htm
http://www.canibaisereis.com/download/c ... prises.pdf
..

veggienft said:

We would be remiss as Moderators on the forum not to give the advice to see your Dr when we think it necessary. However that choice is absolutely yours. Please feel free to continue to post your opinions or questions on the forum. Nobody wishes to stop you doing that. You do not need permission.

Click to expand...

This thread finally gives me the opportunity to chime in on this subject without criticizing a poster who's looking for help. You're criticizing some advice, and I'm criticizing your criticism.

I'm not formally diagnosed as a diabetic.

* I have LADA.

However........

* I DON'T have LADA

.........because I *totally* control it with diet. If I went in to be tested today, a doctor would say I'm well. Period.

There's a glaringly obvious trend among type 2 diabetics to get diagnosed, and "be" a diabetic. The tactic lets diabetics eat the sweets and flours they are addicted to while stroking each other with enablement talk.

And that's what you're doing. You are welcome to do as you please.

Type 2 diabetes is curable .......curable. And it doesn't take being diagnosed to cure it. Becoming "a diabetic" is anathema to curing diabetes. I recommend *not* becoming a diabetic. Instead, a person should change lifestyles until he/she is no longer diabetic.
..

Click to expand...

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. You can call a bear a dog, but i's still a bear. Whether you apply the label or not, you still fall under the blanket of it.

There isn't a 'cure' and to say so is really rather insensitive. Also, I'd wonder whether you've read much around here, because most of the low-carb type 2 diabetics here are hardly 'enablers'. "Carb-hating glucose fascists" is more the term I'd use (no offense guys, I just think accusing people on this board of being weak on the carb issue is frankly ridiculous).

Once the damage is done, either type 1 or type 2, it's done. You can, through different means, remove the symptoms. But you also remove the symptoms of gangrene by amputating the foot. It solves the problem, staves off death, but no one would call it a cure.

"Carb-hating glucose fascists"

Love it - who's going to market the T-shirts?