Cut out carbs for good?

[vit90]

I am convinced that a high-carb diet, no matter how 'good' the carbs are, is to be avoided and can be attributed to a major portion of the blame for me becoming Type 2 diabetic. The question I am interested in hearing everyone's views on is, after have hopefully been able to control our condition - maybe even achieve remission after something like the Newcastle Diet, should carbs be subsequently avoided as much as possible so we can achieve long term ketosis or is the more conventional view that we should avoid sugary carbs and eat a moderate amount of starchy carbs as well as moderate portions of fruit?

And does acceptable carb consumption correlate with one's activity?

I ask these questions because what I have read actually suggests carbs are possibly not needed in our diet and at worst a major factor in all sorts of disorders, not just diabetes.

What do you think?

 

[brettsza]

I am week 7 into ND and I plan to have carby treats occasionally but stay on lchf for most of the time.
I dont know how and what effects ND would have made as have not had any carbs for quite some time,but there are members here who have done nd and were able to have high carb foods without major spikes.
If i remember correctly you did ND as well for few weeks but could not complete it.

 

[vit90]

I am week 7 into ND and I plan to have carby treats occasionally but stay on lchf for most of the time.
I dont know how and what effects ND would have made as have not had any carbs for quite some time,but there are members here who have done nd and were able to have high carb foods without major spikes.
If i remember correctly you did ND as well for few weeks but could not complete it.

We are thinking similarly. I have adapted well to low carbing, partly because I do all the cooking But I do miss bread, pasta and rice, plus fruit - all of which were supposed to be healthy sources of carbs. I have no problem with basing my long term future diet on low carb but like you I would like to be able to eat some carbs in moderation. But to do that may not mix well with maintaining ketosis.

 

[Robbity]

Well I haven't completely cut out carbs, but have been on a low carb/ketogenic diet for a just over year, and for me it has been a permanent life style change rather than a fix it diet.

But I do believe that I need to eat some vegetables and fruit for health reasons, and certainly from choice! -- although I'll still keep away from the usual no-go higher carb foods, which I don't really miss at all.

I haven't fixed my diabetes, but I can for the most part, unless I'm stressed or not well, keep to fairly steady/level pre and post meal readings. And my new diet has cleared my previous long term brain fog, reduced the incidence of chronic migraines, and helped considerably with long term painful knee joints.

Robbity

 

[vit90]

Well I haven't completely cut out carbs, but have been on a low carb/ketogenic diet for a just over year, and for me it has been a permanent life style change rather than a fix it diet.

But I do believe that I need to eat some vegetables and fruit for health reasons, and certainly from choice! -- although I'll still keep away from the usual no-go higher carb foods, which I don't really miss at all.

I haven't fixed my diabetes, but I can for the most part, unless I'm stressed or not well, keep to fairly steady/level pre and post meal readings. And my new diet has cleared my previous long term brain fog, reduced the incidence of chronic migraines, and helped considerably with long term painful knee joints.

Robbity

Your're doing fine and by the time you have achieved that weight loss you could well be in remission with the diabetes

 

[Spiker]

Jenny Ruhl says something like, if you're going to give in to having some carbs, make sure they are really, truly splendid. Don't just have some space-filling ****. If you are going to have a dessert, make it the dessert you really want. Don't just have something because it's in front of you. Plan it. When you think of something you want, think "ok but is there anything I would rather have than this one thing?". This process can go and and on. And often it works out that you decide to have nothing at all, and are perfectly fine with that.

 

[VinnyJames]

I am convinced that a high-carb diet, no matter how 'good' the carbs are, is to be avoided and can be attributed to a major portion of the blame for me becoming Type 2 diabetic. The question I am interested in hearing everyone's views on is, after have hopefully been able to control our condition - maybe even achieve remission after something like the Newcastle Diet, should carbs be subsequently avoided as much as possible so we can achieve long term ketosis or is the more conventional view that we should avoid sugary carbs and eat a moderate amount of starchy carbs as well as moderate portions of fruit?

And does acceptable carb consumption correlate with one's activity?

I ask these questions because what I have read actually suggests carbs are possibly not needed in our diet and at worst a major factor in all sorts of disorders, not just diabetes.

What do you think?

Yes, there is a clear correlation between carb consumption and activity.

Professional athletes load up on carbs for energy.

There is also a strong school of thought about level of beta cell damage in the pancreas correlating with the bodies ability to process the carbs. I believe there is ongoing research in the area.

 

[phil1966]

I've cut carbs pretty much out of my diet for the last 6 months (down to less than 20 for a few months and even though I'm increasing them now as I increase my daily calorie consumption, they're still well below 50) and I've got more energy now than I've ever had. I believe that if your body is keto-adapted, you don't really need carbs for energy so the correlation between carbs and activity isn't necessarily that clear cut

 

[vit90]

My thinking was that if you are more active (I estimate I'm burning about 1500 calories a week more than I used to be thanks to additional activity) you can consume more carbs safely (by more I mean moderately more than when avoiding them as much as possible, not more than when I was pre-diagnosis).

 

[vit90]

Yes, there is a clear correlation between carb consumption and activity.

Professional athletes load up on carbs for energy.

There is also a strong school of thought about level of beta cell damage in the pancreas correlating with the bodies ability to process the carbs. I believe there is ongoing research in the area.

Prof Taylor (Newcastle Diet) doesn't appear to make much reference to Pancreas beta cell condition. I get the impression that his research assumes subjects have undamaged pancreases that actually create much more insulin than normal in reaction to insulin resistance and that the reduction or elimination of visceral fat in the liver and pancreas somehow improves insulin sensitivity - this is the bit I don't fully understand.

 

[Spiker]

Prof Taylor (Newcastle Diet) doesn't appear to make much reference to Pancreas beta cell condition. I get the impression that his research assumes subjects have undamaged pancreases that actually create much more insulin than normal in reaction to insulin resistance and that the reduction or elimination of visceral fat in the liver and pancreas somehow improves insulin sensitivity - this is the bit I don't fully understand.

No I would say that you've understood that correctly.

 

[vit90]

No I would say that you've understood that correctly.

The bit I don't understand is how the visceral fat reduction/elimination improves insulin sensitivity, i.e., the mechanism. Insulin resistance is easy to grasp from a simple viewpoint; the body (but which part(s)) no longer responds to insulin adequately to remove glucose from the blood efficiently. This seems to have something to do with the liver, which in turn adds glucose to the blood when it thinks you need it (and often with T2 when you don't need it). So the liver adds glucose to the blood but how does it work to remove glucose from blood? Or is it simply that a cleaned up liver stops adding glucose to the blood unnecessarily, so the body has less unnecessary glucose to deal with? I just don't know. Answers/suggestions welcome!

 

[Suercc]

I found the lchf approach by accident when my type 2 lurched out of control after 15 years.
Determined to get off Sulphonylureas, have already reduced the dose, and I have lost a stone and a half. Since January
Funny thing is my appetite has gone and I don't have cravings. Can't wait to see what my hb1ac is after being 11% in January. Test meter never says above 7!
As long as cholesterol is ok, for me this is forever.

 

[Spiker]

Fat only starts building up in the liver when it can no longer easily get into the adipose cells in the rest of the body because they are full.

This process of filling the cells up by stuffing them full of triglycerides (made in the liver from excess glucose) is what drives up insulin resistance.

 

[Merrylizard1314]

Thanks for that, @Spiker. So, if the triglycerides are low, does that mean no fatty liver?

 

[Spiker]

Yes if you get your free triglycerides low then the process goes into reverse.

 

[sanguine]

Personally I'm on LCHF for life and don't feel any need for carb treats. Any buffer I might have is reserved for occasional 'accidental transgressions'

 

[donnellysdogs]

You mention carbs and activity..
I still eat 12-50g but that doesn't include milk in my coffees.. I'm a lean gardener.
I can't eat the breads etc because of it reacting badly in my stomach.

I have now plateaud with my recent weightloss again (which I didn't want to lose).

I don't measure carbs for my activities but due to the good advice here I just measure good fats and protein against my activities. I rarely sit down from moment I get up to minute I sleep. I don't measure calories either. Fat, protein (now) and my weighing scales.

Everybody on low carb can have plenty of veg and salads and some berries. They are vital vitamins.

 

[donnellysdogs]

Fat only starts building up in the liver when it can no longer easily get into the adipose cells in the rest of the body because they are full.

This process of filling the cells up by stuffing them full of triglycerides (made in the liver from excess glucose) is what drives up insulin resistance.

I still fon't understand this.. I have 0.6 trigs but still have the start of a fatty liver which my GP just puts it down to long term diabetes and not alchohol as I rarely drink and if I do its a couple glasses over a weekend.

Only a scan of my stomach area highlighted the start of fatty liver. If I just carried on believing my 0.6 trigs I would not have known. I only found out about the liver because of a different health issue...

 

[Brunneria]

I still fon't understand this.. I have 0.6 trigs but still have the start of a fatty liver which my GP just puts it down to long term diabetes and not alchohol as I rarely drink and if I do its a couple glasses over a weekend.

Only a scan of my stomach area highlighted the start of fatty liver. If I just carried on believing my 0.6 trigs I would not have known. I only found out about the liver because of a different health issue...

Do you have a series of scans that show that your fatty liver was developing?

If you only have one scan then you have no evidence to show whether your fatty liver is increasing or decreasing in its fattiness on your current diet.