dawn phenomenon numbers

[numan43]

Been doing LCHF now for around 7 weeks and its going quite well, managed to come off glyclazide 320g daily and my numbers are steady between 5 and 6.5 most days but my morning levels are always on the high side between 7.5 and 8 usually which is annoying.

Just wondering what others on here morning numbers are like and what they consider acceptable....I've read lots on this phenomenon but yet to find an answer

 

[Arab Horse]

I think it is a very individual thing. I always found that my glucose was high before breakfast.

My morning routine was to get up, do the horses and then come in for breakfast and my glucose was usually between about 6.6 and 8.7 pre breakfast. I then read of the "morning liver dump".

I then started testing testing before and after doing the horses and and found that the one done when I got up was was quite a bit lower (from about 0.5 to 1.8mmol/L) than the reading before I had done one and a half to 2 hours of exercise so a large liver dump. Your liver may be doing the same. Do you test as soon as you get up or after pottering around/exercising etc.

 

[numan43]

I test first thing around 8am, my morning numbers are getting me down, they put me off taking breakfast sometimes

 

[Arab Horse]

When I test one and two hours after breakfast both readings are lower than the pre breakfast. I now have my breakfast before doing the horses and it is always a cheese omelette (two eggs) with onion and garlic (supposed to be good for diabetics), a couple of chopped up mushrooms and a few small tomatoes. I occasionally put in a bit of some other left overs!

Results shown below.

Pre breakfast 6.6 I hour post 7.2 2 hours 6.6
Pre breakfast 6.3 I hour post 6.1 2 hours 4.8
Pre breakfast 8.0 I hour post 9.1 2 hours 6.8
Pre breakfast 5.8 I hour post 9.0 2 hours 12.6 I had 2 fried eggs, mushrooms, tomatoes and a small potato bread; won't have that again.
Pre breakfast 6.8 I hour post 8.5 2 hours 6.1

My results are very variable and I never get down to the levels others achieve hence the reason I intend to start the ND soon even though I am already a bit under weight. Getting into ketosis might help t regulate my glucose, we shall see.

 

[madusmacus]

Since using Freestyle Libre I have noticed my dawn phenomenon was due to waking up and especialy getting up and washing dressing and teething

For me there is a direct correlation to getting out of bed and a 2MMOL increase
If I just lie there and relax and watch tv and don't get up its a lot lower

So i am just going to play computer games in bed and do nothing for the rest of my life :¬P

As I say this is just me... but might be worth testing on wake up and then after you have got ready for the day
I was surprised :¬)

RED LINE = WAKE UP :¬)

 

[Arab Horse]

Since using Freestyle Libre I have noticed my dawn phenomenon was due to waking up and especialy getting up and washing dressing and teething

For me there is a direct correlation to getting out of bed and a 2MMOL increase
If I just lie there and relax and watch tv and don't get up its a lot lower

So i am just going to play computer games in bed and do nothing for the rest of my life :¬P

As I say this is just me... but might be worth testing on wake up and then after you have got ready for the day
I was surprised :¬)

RED LINE = WAKE UP :¬)
View attachment 13415

As you haven't given details of when you tested and ate at other times and what the "8g" etc stands for (8 gms of carbs?) I am not quite sure what the graphs mean. The real message I am getting is to just lounge in bed all day but I guess I would get bored after a while and the horses would not be too amused to not be fed and turned out. My husband might also get a bit annoyed!!!! I will try testing when I wake up before I wash, dress and go downstairs and then again when I get downstairs. Will let you know how I get on. I didn't think just getting up and dressed would have much effect but maybe it does.

I had a telly in the bedroom for years and never used it so gave it away in the end so no chance to watch that!

I can see the your cat has been "teething"; lovely set of gnashers, wish mine looked so good.

 

[Bluetit1802]

The NICE guidelines say 4 to 7 for T2's. (4 to 5.9 for non-diabetics.)

Mine vary from low 5's to low 6's, but fasting levels are always the last to come down, and are very individual. We all have a level at which our bodies prefer to be, and these are all different.

 

[numan43]

So i am just going to play computer games in bed and do nothing for the rest of my life :¬P

haha , dont give me ideas.....very interesting...i tend to be an irregular sleeper, I think that may contribute to my BG levels

 

[BooJewels]

I've always had my highest pre-food readings in a morning - for over 20 years - and I also am lower when I first get out of bed, compared to when I actually have breakfast, which is usually at least couple of hours later (I like to work a bit in a morning when it's quiet). I would expect a rise of around 1 - 1.5 between getting up and breakfast. I think my body panics if I've not eaten for a while and dumps a load of glucose into my blood. The odd times I've had to really fast for medical procedures and the like, it just keeps getting higher.

I was 6.3 at bedtime and 7.8 when I got out of bed and then 8.7 before breakfast today - the very lowest readings I've had for over 2 years - I started insulin in March and increased my units by 2 each dose yesterday and it made a much bigger difference than previous increases have, so I hope I'm now getting close to my ideal dose.

 

[urbanracer]

Been doing LCHF now for around 7 weeks and its going quite well, managed to come off glyclazide 320g daily and my numbers are steady between 5 and 6.5 most days but my morning levels are always on the high side between 7.5 and 8 usually which is annoying.

Just wondering what others on here morning numbers are like and what they consider acceptable....I've read lots on this phenomenon but yet to find an answer

A little while ago @Brunneria was doing an experiment. I think she was eating a cheese straw as soon as she woke up to stop the body from using its own glucose reserves (or something along those lines). Not sure how it worked out.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi,

Thanks for tagging me @urbanracer

Here's a link to that thread.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/pesky-dawn-phenomenon.57672/
The long and short of it is that, for me, a low carb snack before getting out of bed in the morning is the best thing to stop my BG from rising. But everyone is different, and that thread gives a lot of different options that work for different people.

 

[numan43]

Hi,

Thanks for tagging me @urbanracer

Here's a link to that thread.
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/pesky-dawn-phenomenon.57672/
The long and short of it is that, for me, a low carb snack before getting out of bed in the morning is the best thing to stop my BG from rising. But everyone is different, and that thread gives a lot of different options that work for different people.

hi Brunneria , did you stick with the brazils on awakening......very interesting thread but i got lost and bamboozled part way through

 

[Brunneria]

Well...

I have been through a range. Brazils are the easiest. The cheese got old, very quickly. And I currently have a jar of organic peanut butter. Of course the problem with the pb is stopping at 1 teasp.

Overall, yes, the Brazils have worked best.

My biggest failing is forgetting. But that is my own fault, and when I do remember, it works very well indeed.

 

[Arab Horse]

i will try the brazils; think almonds would also work well so may have a few of each. As you say, it is remembering to take them to bed with you. Be OK once it becomes a habit. Do you take them just before getting out of bed or do you give them 10 minutes or so to work before you get up?

 

[Brunneria]

I kind of flop an arm out. Scrabble about, eyes shut. Toss a Brazil down the hatch. Lurch to my feet, while chewing, and blunder down the landing to the bathroom.

If you are well enough organised to enjoy a quiet 10 mins of ruminant digestion before rising, then I take my hat off to you!!!

 

[Arab Horse]

"If you are well enough organised to enjoy a quiet 10 mins of ruminant digestion before rising, then I take my hat off to you!!! "

I would be if I didn't have to have my breakfast before I did the horses but if it means setting the alarm even earlier so I still have my breakfast before doing the horses I will have to give it a miss. I will try and remember to do it tomorrow and let you know how I get on. I will have the nuts, test before and after doing the horses and have my breakfast when I come in.

Watch this space!

 

[Brunneria]

I would try it for several days before you decide if it works or not - I think it takes a while for the (my) body to realise it doesn't have to keep pumping out glucose, and that it can use the nuts as fuel instead.

 

[Arab Horse]

That sounds reasonable, will report back in due course. I am actually going to try the ND soon, had intended to start this week end but have a busy week next week so will leave it until things are less hectic just in case I don't feel 100%. I have the shakes ready so I could have the nuts in the morning instead of a shake if I weighed them. I have got my scales ready as I have never weighed food before, rarely even weighed myself!

 

[ally1]

my morning tests are always high, between 11.3 and 15.5

 

[madusmacus]

As you haven't given details of when you tested and ate at other times and what the "8g" etc stands for (8 gms of carbs?) I am not quite sure what the graphs mean. The real message I am getting is to just lounge in bed all day but I guess I would get bored after a while and the horses would not be too amused to not be fed and turned out. My husband might also get a bit annoyed!!!! I will try testing when I wake up before I wash, dress and go downstairs and then again when I get downstairs. Will let you know how I get on. I didn't think just getting up and dressed would have much effect but maybe it does.

I had a telly in the bedroom for years and never used it so gave it away in the end so no chance to watch that!

I can see the your cat has been "teething"; lovely set of gnashers, wish mine looked so good.

Yep I was trying to keep it light hearted :¬)

The message I was trying to get over was...
I find (with me) the act of actually waking/getting up and getting ready for the day bumps my BG up significantly much more than eating my breakfast does (usually 6g carbs)

Anyways enough of me waffling on :¬)

p.s the red bar is approximately 8am (stupid freestyle graph labels)