Dean Ornish: Low Carb diets cause chronic inflammation

[borofergie]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opini ... ef=opinion

Patients on an Atkins diet in this study showed more than double the level of CRP (C-reactive protein), which is a measure of chronic inflammation and also significantly higher levels of cortisol, a key stress hormone. Both of these increase the risk of heart disease and other chronic diseases. A major research article published recently in the British Medical Journal studied 43,396 Swedish women over 16 years. It concluded that “low carbohydrate-high protein diets ... are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular diseases.” An important article in The New England Journal of Medicine examined data from a study showing that high-protein, low-carb diets promote coronary artery disease even if they don’t increase traditional cardiac risk factors like blood pressure or cholesterol levels. A diet low in fat and high in unrefined carbohydrates caused the least amount of coronary artery blockages, whereas an Atkins-type diet caused the most.

Oh dear. More healthy wholegrains for me then...

 

[Defren]

Piffle!!

 

[paragliderpete]

Hi I'm glad I'm not a swedish women over the age of 16. What a load of rubbish, I bet it's sponsored by a highly stressed cereal producer

 

[Fraddycat]

I don't know about the research, all I know is that I had chronic gum disease for many, many years which stopped completely about 8 days after I started low carbing. It has not recurred. It seems to me that this is a significant reduction in inflammation in my body ...

 

[borofergie]

Come on kids, be fair, Dr Dean can cure severe coronary heart disease with healthy-wholegrains and vegetarian chilli...

In 35 years of medical research, conducted at the nonprofit Preventive Medicine Research Institute, which I founded, we have seen that patients who ate mostly plant-based meals, with dishes like black bean vegetarian chili and whole wheat penne pasta with roasted vegetables, achieved reversal of even severe coronary artery disease.

 

[Fraddycat]

I just looked at his website .. it may be non profit but you still have to sign up and pay money. What's the betting he also has a book/TV channel/franchise going on - charlatan.

 

[librarising]

An interesting article, and helpful comments on this study

http://paleohacks.com/questions/130882/ ... z27KJtA01F

Now just put those healthy wholegrains down, borofergie, before anyone gets hurt

Geoff

 

[librarising]

And Robb Wolf's contribution to the debate

http://robbwolf.com/2012/03/09/paleo-di ... metformin/

if you have a systemic inflammatory condition (most modern folks do), a low-carb paleo diet is likely the best thing you could possibly do to dial down the fires within and get on the road to healing.

I said put them down, borofergie.

Geoff

 

[borofergie]

I just looked at his website .. it may be non profit but you still have to sign up and pay money. What's the betting he also has a book/TV channel/franchise going on - charlatan.

It is true that he has written books, but we're not going lower ourselves to ad hominem attacks on this thread...

I don't know about the research, all I know is that I had chronic gum disease for many, many years which stopped completely about 8 days after I started low carbing. It has not recurred. It seems to me that this is a significant reduction in inflammation in my body ...

That's very interesting Fraddy. It kinda concurs with the work of Weston Price, a 1930s dentist who thought that dental decay was down to all refined carbohydrates, and not just sugar:

Price had shifted his interest to nutrition. In 1939, he published Nutrition and Physical Degeneration,detailing his global travels studying the diets and nutrition of various cultures. The book concludes that aspects of a modern Western diet (particularly flour, sugar, and modern processed vegetable fats) cause nutritional deficiencies that are a cause of many dental issues and health problems.

There are many anecdotal claims amongst Paleo advocates of improved dental health once they stopped eating grains...

I had sleep apnea, that pretty much stopped immediately when I cut the carbohydrates out of my diet (before I'd lost any significant weight). I put this down to reduced inflammation.

 

[borofergie]

Ornish is probably leading opponent of low-carb. He is kind of the "anti-Taubes".

This is article is very interesting because (despite cherry picking) the only three bits of science that he can find to rubbish low-carb are:

1. The New England Journal of Medicine study that he references is a rat experiment. Fair point, I'll be careful not to feed vermin a low-carb diet, in case it gives them a heart attack.
2. British Medical Journal study of 43,396 Swedish women over 16 years, actually included no low-carbers and was based on a single, self-reported diet record that covered the past 6 months, and was used to characterize the women's diets over the next 16 years. Denise Minger rips the balls off it here: http://rawfoodsos.com/2012/07/01/bad-sc ... ikes-again
3. Epidimological red meat rubbish. Yada, yada, yada.

So if one of the leading opponents of low-carb dieting can't dig up any evidence against it, it really makes you think that there probably is none.

 

[librarising]

I found this exchange between Taubes, Ornish, and a lady from the American Heart Association quite interesting :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdBDQdOKbJQ

Might help you expand your opinion of these people (for good or ill)

Geoff

 

[borofergie]

I found this exchange between Taubes, Ornish, and a lady from the American Heart Association quite interesting :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdBDQdOKbJQ

Might help you expand your opinion of these people (for good or ill)

Geoff

Yes, I've watched the whole thing. It's really very funny. Not only does Taubes completely own them, but he's also very rude them both in the process. Obviously my kind of guy.

Some of the body language is fantastic.

I was supposed to have been at a conference in San Francisco last week, at which Ornish was one of the keynotes. So sad I missed it.

 

[borofergie]

Oh dear, having decided to adopt his low-fat high-carb diet, after last week's article, it turns out that Dean Ornish has being telling fibs. Lots of them:

http://www.awlr.org/1/post/2012/09/resp ... op-ed.html

I especially liked this bit:

Even more striking is the fact that to our knowledge, a low-fat diet has NEVER in dietary clinical trial history produced more weight loss than a calorie unlimited, high fat diet. Many studies have shown no difference, but if it is true that a fat makes you fat, where are the clinical trials supporting this?

 

[Superchip]

It's just the way these grossly overpaid so-called professionals keep their gravy train going till they croak, probably by not taking their opponents advice !

A unheated discussion, could have benn a lot more fun on British TV.

I'll stick with the LCHF routine, I have pretty much existed on it for the last 10 years, 18 years post total heart transplant.
If the machine ain't broke, don't fix it.

GLA smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast !

Superchip, mine's a scotch !

 

[Paul_c]

It's just the way these grossly overpaid so-called professionals keep their gravy train going till they croak, probably by not taking their opponents advice !

A unheated discussion, could have benn a lot more fun on British TV.

I'll stick with the LCHF routine, I have pretty much existed on it for the last 10 years, 18 years post total heart transplant.
If the machine ain't broke, don't fix it.

GLA smoke me a kipper I'll be back for breakfast !

Superchip, mine's a scotch !

is this a hey ho, pip and dandy moment Sir?

 

[hanadr]

I just skimmed this article and have just 2 questions.
1 Where's the link to the original study?
2 Since when is Atkins a low carb/ high protein diet?

If you can't identify your parameters correctly, what validity your results? Oh dear! Q number 3???
Me I DON'T BUY IT
Hana

 

[xyzzy]

Oh dear, having decided to adopt his low-fat high-carb diet, after last week's article, it turns out that Dean Ornish has being telling fibs. Lots of them:

http://www.awlr.org/1/post/2012/09/resp ... op-ed.html

I especially liked this bit:

Even more striking is the fact that to our knowledge, a low-fat diet has NEVER in dietary clinical trial history produced more weight loss than a calorie unlimited, high fat diet. Many studies have shown no difference, but if it is true that a fat makes you fat, where are the clinical trials supporting this?

The whole thing is pretty damning if you are a low fat / anti fat advocate. An excellent well reasoned informative article. I liked the summary at the end.

In medical school we are taught how to take an HPI (History of present illness) whenever we see a new patient. The importance of this history is stressed in every class, because of how important the patient's story is, and how helpful it can be in coming up with the diagnosis.

Yet when it comes to figuring out why people are gaining weight, we don't listen. We are absolutely sure that the patient is at fault and we are correct: Just Eat less.

We don't listen to the fact that people are universally hungry on a calorie-restricted diet. Eat 500 less calories a day than you normally would, then run for an hour each day, then ignore your most basic physiological drive to eat when you get hungry. And repeat this for the rest of your life and our obesity problems will be solved.

 

[GraceK]

Well ... true or false ... I don't care what anyone else's research says, I'm going by how I FEEL.

I had high CRP readings before being diagnosed with diabetes and I don't know what they are now but since I've been LCHF eating I've hardly touched my inhalers, I don't wake up wheezing and coughing every morning, I've halved my Omeprazole for the painful gastritis and acid reflux I've suffered for the past 2 years, the brain fog has lifted and I don't feel mentally dull any more, I'm feeling the strength returning to my muscles albeit slowly. I wouldn't say I'm doing cartwheels or that I feel on top of the world but my health and quality of life is definitely slowly improving.

My body does not need or want to ingest any more neat sugar or anything that will turn to glucose once I put it in my mouth and the reason I know that is very simple. I believe my blood has been overloaded with sugar for a long, long time and I believe my own stomach lining began telling me that several years ago and I completely ignored it. I noticed that whenever I ate cake, sweets, bread, pastry and especially chocolate I would have a burning sensation when it hit my stomach and then I'd get acid reflux.

Perhaps to some the LCHF seems like an unhealthy diet, but to others it might be a life saver. Each to their own I say.

 

[sky]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/the-optimal-diet.html?ref=opinion

Patients on an Atkins diet in this study showed more than double the level of CRP (C-reactive protein), which is a measure of chronic inflammation and also significantly higher levels of cortisol, a key stress hormone. Both of these increase the risk of heart disease and other chronic diseases. A major research article published recently in the British Medical Journal studied 43,396 Swedish women over 16 years. It concluded that “low carbohydrate-high protein diets ... are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular diseases.” An important article in The New England Journal of Medicine examined data from a study showing that high-protein, low-carb diets promote coronary artery disease even if they don’t increase traditional cardiac risk factors like blood pressure or cholesterol levels. A diet low in fat and high in unrefined carbohydrates caused the least amount of coronary artery blockages, whereas an Atkins-type diet caused the most.

Oh dear. More healthy wholegrains for me then...

i believe our british-- dr.john briffa would totally disagree with this opinion..

 

[sky]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/23/opinion/sunday/the-optimal-diet.html?ref=opinion

Patients on an Atkins diet in this study showed more than double the level of CRP (C-reactive protein), which is a measure of chronic inflammation and also significantly higher levels of cortisol, a key stress hormone. Both of these increase the risk of heart disease and other chronic diseases. A major research article published recently in the British Medical Journal studied 43,396 Swedish women over 16 years. It concluded that “low carbohydrate-high protein diets ... are associated with increased risk of cardiovascular diseases.” An important article in The New England Journal of Medicine examined data from a study showing that high-protein, low-carb diets promote coronary artery disease even if they don’t increase traditional cardiac risk factors like blood pressure or cholesterol levels. A diet low in fat and high in unrefined carbohydrates caused the least amount of coronary artery blockages, whereas an Atkins-type diet caused the most.

Oh dear. More healthy wholegrains for me then...

..... this goes totally against* our own DR.JOHN BRIFFA who personally i would rely on for the most up to date nutritional advice for wellbeing...