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catherinecherub
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Send him a PM?
Send him a PM?It would, but he tends to be infrequent on his posts unfortunately. I'd like to know it there were ratios as well.
Send him a PM?
Have you looked at the fasting levels of those on low carb. I have a theory that as you go lower in carb amount the level rises and your BG levels become more stable throughout the day. This makes it look like people have developed insulin resistance when they haven't. I wonder if there is a study/paper in there to determine a statistical correlation.
It would, but he tends to be infrequent on his posts unfortunately. I'd like to know it there were ratios as well.
A valid point but we found that in the context of most of the patients were trying to loose weight this didn't seem to be a problem ,also fat on its own without carbs would seem to be less appetising@Southport GP, You don't appear to use the words "high Fat" in your documentation.
I know what you mean when you described diets higher in fats which reads well.
Do you think many people might miss understand that "high fat" means eat as much fat as you want instead of moderately.
Thanks for the reply.
I am interested in this statement,
"I suspect their diabetes will deteriorate if they go back to carbs"
I decided to go back on the carbs and in doing so my HbA1c reduced further. Now I do not know if it would have continued falling if I had continued with the low/medium carbs. I have not found carbs, as such, to be addictive. I do find at times I crave nuts, especially peanuts (yeah I know not really nuts) and find when I have these cravings I can polish off a 1/2 kg bag. What is amazing is this has no impact on my BG levels or weight. I do not quite understand the craving but I do indulge it as I assume it is my body telling me I need something it requires that I am not providing in other ways (maybe I am not eating enough fats or it wants the combination of fats and carbs in the nuts to top up my fat stores.
Have you looked at the fasting levels of those on low carb. I have a theory that as you go lower in carb amount the level rises and your BG levels become more stable throughout the day. This makes it look like people have developed insulin resistance when they haven't. I wonder if there is a study/paper in there to determine a statistical correlation.
Are you testing their HbA1c yearly or more frequently? After my first 3 month HbA1c my surgery decided I didn't need one for a year as I was in normal range. Personally I do feel this is not often enough and would allow too much "carb creep". I therefore test every few days around my main meal to ensure I am not getting drift but do find spot checking is difficult for trending and I am trying to not be as obsessive with my testing like I used to be (I was able to predict my HbA1c with some accuracy and I had to show my GP how I did it with all my calculations). Out of interest did you get your trialists to test their BG levels as they went to provide them with even further incentive and if so did you need to explain the levels they were obtaining?
Sorry, more questions, just ignore me if you wish.[/Q
That is really interesting that you found that their HbA1c went up where my HbA1c has actually gone down as I have introduced some carbs. Does this mean I went past "Prof Taylor's fat threshold" and your participants didn't? Does losing weight through a starvation diet reduce fat in a different way to LCHF as @douglas99 is finding in his thread? Does starvation switch cells into repair mode and not replace as is the theory behind the 5-2 diet and as such repaired my beta cells? May be a combination of them all! Food for thought I thinkAs its part of research and also very interesting and motivating for folk to know how they are doing most of the participants have their HbA1c, chol including the ratio and liver function done about every 12 weeks
Around last Christmas several of the participants did suffer 'carb creep' and their HbAic went up with their weight after only 4-6 weeks. So they felt a post Christmas test was a usefull wake up call !
It would, but he tends to be infrequent on his posts unfortunately. I'd like to know it there were ratios as well.
Yes we did the cholesterol ratios on a regular basis and there were significant improvements in the first group of patients - and about fifty more since then -despite a diet higher in fat
That is really interesting that you found that their HbA1c went up where my HbA1c has actually gone down as I have introduced some carbs. Does this mean I went past "Prof Taylor's fat threshold" and your participants didn't? Does losing weight through a starvation diet reduce fat in a different way to LCHF as @douglas99 is finding in his thread? Does starvation switch cells into repair mode and not replace as is the theory behind the 5-2 diet and as such repaired my beta cells? May be a combination of them all! Food for thought I think
That is really interesting that you found that their HbA1c went up where my HbA1c has actually gone down as I have introduced some carbs. Does this mean I went past "Prof Taylor's fat threshold" and your participants didn't? Does losing weight through a starvation diet reduce fat in a different way to LCHF as @douglas99 is finding in his thread? Does starvation switch cells into repair mode and not replace as is the theory behind the 5-2 diet and as such repaired my beta cells? May be a combination of them all! Food for thought I think
I guess I'd like to know the average length of diagnosis for these patients ( obviously there's bit of margin as we've all had it longer than that )compared to those on the Newcastle trial. I seem to recall Taylor's Banting lecture talking about uninhibiting beta cells which is neither repair nor replacement. Also what percentage of weight lost are we talking about in these trials? Taylor is looking at minimum 15% and the chap he gave as an example in his recent talk had gone down to 74 kg from some enormous figure so if you've just lost just enough weight, I can understand how carb creep could have this effect, especially when combined with a post christmas weight gain.
Heavens we are getting to complex stuff now - I find myself on less certain ground
Most of the folk with type two diabetes I have talked to expect that going low carb is a lifelong lifestyle choice and that when they get down to their target weight they may have more fat to avoid further weight loss(and perhaps the odd carby special occasion ) I have several patients who have kept their weight stable for years in this way
The average weight loss on the study was less than Prof Taylor's 15% more like 10% but I know which diet I would prefer to be on (I have been on a low carb diet for nearly two years now)
I have heard it discussed that the longer one is diabetic the less reversible are the metabolic changes and seen some limited evidence for this
Heavens we are getting to complex stuff now - I find myself on less certain ground
Most of the folk with type two diabetes I have talked to expect that going low carb is a lifelong lifestyle choice and that when they get down to their target weight they may have more fat to avoid further weight loss(and perhaps the odd carby special occasion ) I have several patients who have kept their weight stable for years in this way
The average weight loss on the study was less than Prof Taylor's 15% more like 10% but I know which diet I would prefer to be on (I have been on a low carb diet for nearly two years now)
I have heard it discussed that the longer one is diabetic the less reversible are the metabolic changes and seen some limited evidence for this
@Southport GP
Where the patients in your study long term diabetics already low carbing, or recently diagnosed who switched from their old diet to a low carb diet?
Or a mix of both?
They were mainly newly diagnosed - though since then we have been working with far more longer term diabetics If I get a chance will have to see if the groups vary but suspect the results are very similar
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