Definition of Diabetes

[xyzzy]

Hi Bellx15 welcome back

Good news then.

As for the nurse then 2 and 3 are rubbish 1 has some truth BUT it depends on how much pancreatic function you have lost. If you hadn't lost a lot and have lost some weight and therefore insulin resistance you may well have reversed the condition but that's called being pre-diabetic and reversing it. If you have lost loads of pancreatic function however those beta cells ain't going to regenerate my friend.

What happens with your 2 hour readings if you eat a healthy standard "NHS" meal of 50% carbs 33% of them starchy. Do you keep under 7.8? Can you do that continually day after day, week in week out or will you like the nurse suggests have levels that gradually begin to rise again.

I can eat one "bad" meal nowadays and keep my levels under 8.5. Can't do it two days in a row though.

Where I do disagree with the DSN about 1 is that you should keep the label Diabetic on your file. If you took a GTT test tomorrow you'd probably pass. I'd guess you'd also pass on hBA1c and a fasting BG test. I think that should be enough to remove the diabetic state until you fail one of the tests again which you will if you have lost beta cell function and resume a "normal" carby lifestyle.

 

[Bellx15]

Hi!

My Hba1c was 6.2% so I think I've cracked it. The diet is just pretty normal, including potatoes, toast, etc, so I don't think I am getting an artificial Hba1c reading because of a controlled diet.

What the medical people seem to be missing here is that up until this Spring I was abusing my body quite seriously. Too much beer and no exercise whatsoever for eight months. I don't know much about the medical side of things, but isn't it just common sense that the high readings taken as a consequence of this sustained abuse MIGHT go away once a sensible lifestyle is resumed? I just don't believe that anyone could ingest as much carb as they like and do no exercise whatever and still maintain low BG readings.

So in response to your question, I think I am on a sustainable and pretty normal diet and exercise regime, so no, I can't see at this stage why my BG levels should creep back up.

PS a few readings;
Fasting BG - 5.3
Hba1c - 6.2%

 

[xyzzy]

That's great news! Even if you can eat a normal carby diet then you won't convince me that you haven't just reversed a prediabetic state but I am truly happy for you so well done.

There are limits to how many carbs a non diabetic person can eat but you'd be surprised how good are bodies are at keeping BG's at safe levels despite abuse until things go wrong.

 

[Bellx15]

Thanks - much appreciated.

Even then the GP was wrong, as I was diagnosed as diabetic, rather than pre.

 

[khampshire]

Bellx15, I see you sent me a private message. Unfortunately, I cannot open it as I am just a "new" contributor. So, if you want to engage in a conversation, you will need to do it in the public forum for now...

Ken

 

[Bellx15]

Hi Ken!

Just wanted to let you know what has happened recently, as detailed above. Your opinion on all of this would be much appreciated.

thanks,

Brian

 

[Bellx15]

Hi Bellx15 welcome back

What happens with your 2 hour readings if you eat a healthy standard "NHS" meal of 50% carbs 33% of them starchy. .

She also directly challenged my claim that the NHS diet included 50% carbs. She said it was a lot less than that.

I feel like lodging a complaint.

 

[Defren]

Thanks - much appreciated.

Even then the GP was wrong, as I was diagnosed as diabetic, rather than pre.

Not necessarily. I am under control and never see above 6mmol/l. However, I passed out yesterday, once I came round and was with it a bit more, I tested. I was 6.2. I have not seen that in a while. I also know if I were to have high carbs, my figure would rise exponentially, so therefore, to all intents and purposes, I am no longer diabetic - UNTIL I eat carbs.

I wish you all the luck in the world, and I do hope your GP did get it wrong. It would be so nice to see you come back and say you have your old diet and all is well. I truly mean that, this condition is no fun!

 

[Bellx15]

But it's normal to test over 6. That's what happens during the healthy cycle. I'm sure you didn't pass out because it hit 6.2. I used to get up to 12 before noticing any symptoms.

I eat quite a lot of carbs - a normal diet for me. The only change is less sticky liquid and some regular exercise. So unlike you I am maintaining normal readings on a normal diet.

I appreciate your good wishes - and reciprocate!

Thanks.

 

[Defren]

But it's normal to test over 6. That's what happens during the healthy cycle. I'm sure you didn't pass out because it hit 6.2. I used to get up to 12 before noticing any symptoms.

I eat quite a lot of carbs - a normal diet for me. The only change is less sticky liquid and some regular exercise. So unlike you I am maintaining normal readings on a normal diet.

I appreciate your good wishes - and reciprocate!

Thanks.

No, the 6.2 didn't make me pass out. My HbA1c was 4.9 which put my average BG at 4.6mmol/l and I was fine. I was in California in the summer, and ate some rather nice but naughty banana loaf, that put me up to 9mmol/l I didn't pass out, although came close through shock as I had not been that high before. :lol:

 

[Bellx15]

Thanks for that, Ken.

It's a lot to get through though. Could you by any chance offer any feedback on my specific points?

VIS:

1. I am still a diabetic. Why? Because of those high readings six months ago. So how long do I have to labour under this label? For life. So what makes me diabetic when, leading a normal lifestyle, I get normal readings? Answer: If you were to consume excesses of carbs or sugar you would see high levels of BG again. Ergo - diabetic for life. A non-diabetic would not get those levels under any circumstances.

2. Diabetes type 2 is progressive, so we'll just have to keep monitoring you to see how you get on.

3. Low carb and higher protein diet is no good - protein does not supply your body with energy!! You do need the carb ratio advocated in the NHS literature.

I think above all else I feel that unless the medics take into account my extremely abusive former lifestyle, there is very little they are in a position to prognose.

I respect your knowledge a great deal, so your views would be greatly appreciated.

thanks again,

Brian

 

[Bellx15]

No, the 6.2 didn't make me pass out. My HbA1c was 4.9 which put my average BG at 4.6mmol/l and I was fine. I was in California in the summer, and ate some rather nice but naughty banana loaf, that put me up to 9mmol/l I didn't pass out, although came close through shock as I had not been that high before. :lol:

Gotcha.

I really never experienced any symptoms at all below about 11 or 12 mmol/l

 

[GraceK]

This is a brilliant thread. Wouldn't it be wonderful if there were lots of NHS DOCTORS AND NURSES reading it and learning from it and DO something about the appalling advice we're given regarding diet. It's not really rocket science is it?

And as far as conspiracy theories, Kellogs sponsorship, charities and the NHS and other major organisations are concerned - just think about what's been on the news lately with regard to a certain celebrity DJ who was very involved with backing and charity and the NHS and other organisations - money talks and it also corrupts and it can happen very, very subtly within any organisation if a close watch isn't kept on developments. Let's not be naive about that and be alert to the possibility that not all advice is necessarily good advice, even from 'experts'. We're the patients and we can't afford to accept wrong advice, while perhaps some NHS personnel can't afford not to keep giving it to us because that's what they're paid to do. It's a question of ethics for them. It's a question of life and death for us.

If something doesn't make sense to you ... don't accept it.

 

[xyzzy]

Hi Bellx15 welcome back

What happens with your 2 hour readings if you eat a healthy standard "NHS" meal of 50% carbs 33% of them starchy. .

She also directly challenged my claim that the NHS diet included 50% carbs. She said it was a lot less than that.

I feel like lodging a complaint.

Show her a picture of the glorious NHS "Eatwell plate" It shows 33% starchy carbs with the carb content being taken to 50% by the veg, fruit, milk, cakes and biscuits etc shown in the other segments.

Liar, liar pants on fire :lol:

If you can cope with that on a day by day basis then good man you have successfully reversed your pre diabetes

 

[Bellx15]

Show her a picture of the glorious NHS "Eatwell plate" It shows 33% starchy carbs with the carb content being taken to 50% by the veg, fruit, milk, cakes and biscuits etc shown in the other segments.

Liar, liar pants on fire :lol:

Yes, she showed it to me!! She pointed to the starchy section as if it were all, so I pointed to the fruit.

But is this right? Half of the food can be rich in carbs without the diet actually being 50% carbs. How is the 50% derived?