Delaying the Progression of Type 1 Diabetes

[Alexandra100]

From an article in "Diabetes in Control": http://www.diabetesincontrol.com/delaying-the-progression-of-type-1-diabetes/

"Exercise can lengthen remission — delaying the progression of type 1 diabetes — after being diagnosed.

After being diagnosed with type 1 diabetes, about 60% of patients experience a honeymoon phase in which the pancreas continues to make insulin but in limited amounts before all the insulin- producing beta cells are destroyed. This phase could last a few days, weeks, or months. A new study showed patients who exercised during the first months of being diagnosed with type 1 diabetes had a longer honeymoon phase than patients who did not exercise."

 

[Jollymon]

We can delay progression in t1 Diabetes? I thought we just had it. I use exercise help manage it. I enjoy excercise because it keeps me insulin sensitive.

But I don’t think we can stop it. T1 that is.

Maybe this is a prediabetes to t2 thread...

 

[bulkbiker]

We can delay progression in t1 Diabetes? I thought we just had it. I use exercise help manage it. I enjoy excercise because it keeps me insulin sensitive.

But I don’t think we can stop it. T1 that is.

Maybe this is a prediabetes to t2 thread...

No the article is about extending the honeymoon period. Paleo Medicina in Hungary have also reported some quite good extensions of honeymoon utilising an ultra low carb diet too.
https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/#rolunk

 

[kitedoc]

As a devil's advocate, how important is prolonging the honeymoon effect?
Some people find the honeymoon effect troublesome because they are having to second-guess what their own insulin response will be and somehow know how much extra to give by injection. So hypos may be troublesome.
And unless someone has a rare genetic make up such Mr Darke, you will not know whether the doing gruelling exercise will make a difference.

 

[Alexandra100]

No the article is about extending the honeymoon period. Paleo Medicina in Hungary have also reported some quite good extensions of honeymoon utilising an ultra low carb diet too.
https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/#rolunk

The link didn't seem to get me to anywhere I could find the report you mention.

 

[bulkbiker]

The link didn't seem to get me to anywhere I could find the report you mention.

Here's one
https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/a-...ic-ketogenic-diet-a-19-months-insulin-freedom

 

[bulkbiker]

Here's another.
https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/ty...y-managed-with-the-paleolithic-ketogenic-diet

 

[Alexandra100]

Here's one
https://www.paleomedicina.com/en/a-child-with-type-1-diabetes-mellitus-t1dm-successfully-treated-with-the paleolithic-ketogenic-diet-a-19-months-insulin-freedom

Thanks. Pity they don't seem to specify any details of the diet. In my experience, diets called "ketogenic" are usually far richer in carbs than my LC <20g carbs.

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks. Pity they don't seem to specify any details of the diet. In my experience, diets called "ketogenic" are usually far richer in carbs than my LC <20g carbs.

I doubt it with those guys... they veer towards the Carnivore ...lots of high fat meat.

 

[bulkbiker]

Thanks. Pity they don't seem to specify any details of the diet. In my experience, diets called "ketogenic" are usually far richer in carbs than my LC <20g carbs.

Their basis is Stefansson's all meat diet.
"The Paleolithic ketogenic diet is an animal fat and protein based diet. The first scientific study that used a diet close to the Paleolithic ketogenic diet was published in 1930 (McClellan and Du Bois, 1930). Vilhjalmur Stefansson, an anthropologist and arctic traveller, was convinced that the Arctic Inuit people’s fat and meat-based diet was a nutritionally complete and healthy diet. To prove this, he and a fellow-traveller took part in a year-long study where they ate only animal fat and meat, without vitamin or mineral supplements. At the end of the year there were no signs of vitamin deficiencies or kidney problems in the subjects; they did not suffer fatigue, they were mentally alert, physically active, and showed no specific physical changes in any system of the body."

 

[Scott-C]

Anyway, back in the real world, let's imagine you've got a newly dx'd T1 in front of you.

He's coming to terms with the fact that he will now have to inject insulin on a daily basis for the rest of his life, but soon finds out that injections are not painful, with the odd exception of when we inject too near a nerve cluster -ooyah, those hurt!

And he finds that with an understanding of how to match insulin time patterns and GL/GI absorption rates, alongside careful metering and cgm, he can watch the show play out in real time and make modest adjustments as time goes by, allowing him to lead a relatively unrestricted life in terms of menu choices.

That's an option for him, whereas the other options being presented in this thread are (a) spending way more time on his exercise bike than he wants in the hope of maybe extending honeymoon and (b) telling him he can still have a Sunday roast but leave out the yorkie, potatoes and veg, don't eat any fruit again except avocadoes.

I wonder why those options have not caught on in mainstream medicine...

 

[bulkbiker]

I wonder why those options have not caught on in mainstream medicine...

Presumably because most mainstream medics are blissfully unaware of them..
but don't you think that all options should be available to everyone to let people make an informed decision of their own?

 

[Scott-C]

Presumably because most mainstream medics are blissfully unaware of them..
but don't you think that all options should be available to everyone to let people make an informed decision of their own?

Indeed I do, and the internet is a good way of accessing that information.

I don't have any gripes with low carbing - in certain situations I do it myself.

But what gets my goat - and this is meant as constructive criticism as it's often useful to have an outsider comment on how an approach is coming across - is when low carbers present it as the only option.

Look at how Tim Noakes comes across in this twitter exchange. He as a non-T1, who previously advocated carb loading and then changed his mind from one extreme to the other - is busy telling T1s that they will do "best" if they heavily restrict carbs to 25 to 50g.

The wording implies that he is right and everyone else is wrong and therefore stupid. That doesn't accord with the experience of most T1s and is an extraordinarily bad way to sell a message.

https://mobile.twitter.com/Lo_Carb_Health/status/1030441579633430528

 

[michita]

Anyway, back in the real world, let's imagine you've got a newly dx'd T1 in front of you.

He's coming to terms with the fact that he will now have to inject insulin on a daily basis for the rest of his life, but soon finds out that injections are not painful, with the odd exception of when we inject too near a nerve cluster -ooyah, those hurt!

And he finds that with an understanding of how to match insulin time patterns and GL/GI absorption rates, alongside careful metering and cgm, he can watch the show play out in real time and make modest adjustments as time goes by, allowing him to lead a relatively unrestricted life in terms of menu choices.

That's an option for him, whereas the other options being presented in this thread are (a) spending way more time on his exercise bike than he wants in the hope of maybe extending honeymoon and (b) telling him he can still have a Sunday roast but leave out the yorkie, potatoes and veg, don't eat any fruit again except avocadoes.

I wonder why those options have not caught on in mainstream medicine...

2 and half years ago as a newly diagnosed, I read about type 1s and Lada on low carb diet passionately discussing the benefits of low carb diet and trying to extend honeymoon period on this forum. I'm very grateful for the information I've read and those people who posted the info on this forum. I don't think I'm the only one.

 

[bulkbiker]

Sorry @Scott-C
But I fail to see any connection between a rather ill informed tweet (although to be fair to Prof N he was probably quoting something from Dr Bernstein or RD Dikman saying much the same thing). And the discussion in hand?

If someone wants to try cycling incessantly or restricting their diet in order to try something else I don't see why that can't be trialled as an alternative to

coming to terms with the fact that he will now have to inject insulin on a daily basis for the rest of his life, but soon finds out that injections are not painful, with the odd exception of when we inject too near a nerve cluster -ooyah, those hurt!

I was certainly not presenting the Paleo Medicina route as "the only option" but I can bet that there are only a handful of Type 1 specialists on the UK who have ever heard of it let alone even thought of trying it.

As we know from bitter experience most GP's in the UK are hopelessly out of date when it comes to nutritional treatments for anything especially if it has been trialled in the last 10 years whether ultra low calories or ultra low carb.

 

[therower]

Again we have experts who have researched and studied give or take 40% of the condition telling the people who live the condition 100% how it’s done.
Honeymooning in diabetes is a lot like honeymooning after marriage. It’s not the real world, it’s spontaneous, unpredictable and no matter how much exercise you do the honeymoon WILL end.

 

[bulkbiker]

Again we have experts who have researched and studied give or take 40% of the condition telling the people who live the condition 100% how it’s done.
Honeymooning in diabetes is a lot like honeymooning after marriage. It’s not the real world, it’s spontaneous, unpredictable and no matter how much exercise you do the honeymoon WILL end.

Why so adversarial... ? Can others not read and discover things and discuss without being told how "little" they know? I'm not telling anyone what to do just showing some recent research..
I usually steer well clear of Type 1 stuff and you have just reminded me why.

 

[therower]

Why so adversarial... ? Can others not read and discover things and discuss without being told how "little" they know? I'm not telling anyone what to do just showing some recent research..
I usually steer well clear of Type 1 stuff and you have just reminded me why.

I wasn’t referring to your good self. I was referring to the experts who publish these studies.
I respect your input on low carb, don’t fully agree with it, but nonetheless you are a source of information for people on the forum.

 

[Scott-C]

2 and half years ago as a newly diagnosed, I read about type 1s and Lada on low carb diet passionately discussing the benefits of low carb diet and trying to extend honeymoon period on this forum. I'm very grateful for the information I've read and those people who posted the info on this forum. I don't think I'm the only one.

Like I've said, Michita, my only gripe is that it's sometimes presented quite forcefully as if it's the only option - see the Noakes twitter exchange as an example.

I recall some threads on this forum where people like me who dare to eat more than 100g per day have been called, "insane, lunatic, dangerous, in denial."

I'm delighted that your choices are working for you. All I'm concerned about is when people like Noakes, who is a prominent spokesperson for lchf, denies the possibility that there are other perfectly viable and safe other options. We must surely be able to agree on that.

 

[Alexandra100]

All I'm concerned about is when people like Noakes, who is a prominent spokesperson for lchf, denies the possibility that there are other perfectly viable and safe other options

I don't think people who advocate LC here should keep being be clobbered with Prof. Noakes' lunacies. It is like blaming the entire Tory party for the verbal excesses of Boris Johnson. Or all the men on the Forum being condemned for the misdemeanours attacked by the "Me Too"movement.