DESMOND course....

Paul1976 said:

:lol: I sure will!! I just need my mini 'Tie camera' as well to film it then I'll be good to go..."Ah,so THIS is the Eatwell plate?" :mrgreen:

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Oh my life, I can just see it now, "Police called to a major altercation at a DESMOND course". :lol: :lol:

Paul1976 said:

:lol: Ha Ha!! I can imagine trying to explain that to the magistrate!! Any lawyers on here? :lol:

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I know of one, but she doesn't practice anymore.

Hi Ive just finished the 6 week X Pert courseand i suppose for the knowledge people on here it may seem a bit simple but I enjoyed it the two sisters who were running it were godd and tried to make it enjoyable yes perhaps they were pushing more carb than a lot of people on here would like but please remember we are not all supere experts and just do the best wecan.

xyzzy said:

jopar said:

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Jopar if someone is doing VLC then the whole point if I understand it is to do the ketosis thing. So to do that most of them check with the Ketostix to see if they are running "purple". If they ate 3 or 4 or 5 times the carbs they would soon see they weren't vlc'ing wouldn't they?

Either that or they can't do simple maths or aren't intelligent enough to understand what they are trying to achieve. Is that what you mean?

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No, a lot is based on lack of information.. You can't understand something if you haven't got the information

There's a lot of foods, such as pea's, onions, mushrooms (dependant on type) cauliflower etc,that in a normal portion size side portion or ingredient would only provide a very minimal amount of carbs insignificant amount when incorporated in the 'eat well plate' but when you increase the portion size to replace a 'strachy carb' then the actual carb amount becomes quite noticeable, it's pretty much the same with snacks, now this is one I've seen often somebody snacking on macadamia 50g's of these have 2.5g's of carbs so a pack or two in a day, adds a lot when you working on such small numbers/total..

See what I mean, there's a low carb diet and a low carb diet... One following the principle of, the other actually doing!

That's why you don't class me as a low carber, even though my carb intake is low and most days not a lot difference to yours.. But as I don't follow the principle of low carbing, cutting out of complex carbs then I'm not classed as a low carber!!

As the the Ketostix side with VLC

Isn't this dependant at what your aim is, whether it's to lose weight or to maintain weight!

Yes, the purple would say that 'fat' stores are being burnt to fuel the body, which you need to lose weight the body will naturally move to this mode within a starvation period, but if you maintaining weight you burning the energy before it has a chance of being stored at fat... So wouldn't get the purple as the body would be producing less ketones, has it's burning less fat for fuel..

For the record:

I am perfectly capable of working out my carb intake exactly. I have scales, a carb counter, and a calculator. And I am not afraid to use them. I also have a brain. :crazy:

That is all I feel I should say on the matter.

jopar said:

There's a lot of foods, such as pea's, onions, mushrooms (dependant on type) cauliflower etc,that in a normal portion size side portion or ingredient would only provide a very minimal amount of carbs insignificant amount when incorporated in the 'eat well plate' but when you increase the portion size to replace a 'strachy carb' then the actual carb amount becomes quite noticeable, it's pretty much the same with snacks, now this is one I've seen often somebody snacking on macadamia 50g's of these have 2.5g's of carbs so a pack or two in a day, adds a lot when you working on such small numbers/total..

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I think most of us are capable of reading the nutritional info on the side of a bag of peas. And we all have web sites at hand for carb content of loose food.

jopar wrote:
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You'd have to eat an awful lot of Macadamias to get 30 grams carbs up to 150! You don't really think people on here "miss" up to 120 grams of carbs surely?

xyzzy said:

Jopar if someone is doing VLC then the whole point if I understand it is to do the ketosis thing. So to do that most of them check with the Ketostix to see if they are running "purple".

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Not exactly true xyzzy, I know Hana has been following a strict Bernstein diet for many a year and gets despondent when nothing shows on the Ketostix.

General ranting comment:

It is the patronising, "we know best, you are all silly muppets who cant count, understand labels or comprehend your illness" that makes me angry. :evil:

I am a member of MENSA, I can read and understand most things. I can become my own expert. I am not stupid.

I hate the tone of voice of everyone I have come into contact with from the medical profession so far. They speak in a little girly, patronising, simple words tone of voice. And ignore whatever I say. (so far they have all been female, no sexism meant)

I didnt have this problem with any other illness. When I had kidney and stomach problems involving drastic medical intervention, I was treated with respect and my input and insights and observations were valued and taken on board.

But all I get with Diabetes so far is that I am fat, stupid, incapable of making decisions or managing my condition, and its all my own fault.

End of Rant

Thank goodness for the majority of you here :thumbup:

Paul1976 said:

That sounds like the literature I got through with the depression questionaire to fill in prior to the course along with current blood pressure,waist measurement,hba1c and cholesteral but I haven't filled it in either as I don't see the relevance unless it's so they can chastise people about their levels{sigh} I suppose at the very least I might meet some new people as I don't really do that often.

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Paul, you have to do all this prior to doing the DAFNE course (for type 1's) so they can follow your progress on completion of the course, see it in a positive light as you have been gradually lowering your bg over the last week or so and it will be useful to compare your results at a later date.

The course may not be relevant to your present circumstances but I'm sure meeting other diabetics will be a rewarding experience for you.

Best wishes!

It must be very difficult for the leaders of courses to know where to start.
I know on my first course ( in France ) there were people who hadn't the foggiest notion what a carb was , where they were to be found and some who found the calculations difficult. I doubt it is any different in the UK
I have seen people on here claim a much lower carb count than their menus would suggest
The poor people on my course also had to put up with me who wanted to ask hard questions but had to do it with the aid of a dictionary. (which didn't have the French for stem cells I remember)

I was told by my doctor that I had to attend.... so I did! Whilst I am sure the course could be informative for people who have absolutely no idea about their condition, I found it quite slow. They did advocate counting carbs but not a low carb diet. They didn't really touch too much on complications but most of the people on my course were fairly elderly and perhaps they did not want them to get unduly worried. The long and the short of it was that although I am sure that the course has his rightful place I didn't learn anything I didn't know or could find on the internet. It was also difficult to ask anything personal in a large group situation.
Hope that helps!

Oo you callin' normal? How very DARE you? !!! :crazy:

Paul1976 said:

That sounds like the literature I got through with the depression questionaire to fill in prior to the course along with current blood pressure,waist measurement,hba1c and cholesteral but I haven't filled it in either as I don't see the relevance unless it's so they can chastise people about their levels{sigh} I suppose at the very least I might meet some new people as I don't really do that often.

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The data they collect before the course, helps to determine outcome of the education you've been given...

Diabetes are twice as likely to suffer from depression than an non-diabetic and now they are taking this seriously and hoping if they can pick up those diabetics who are struggling earlier help can be more productive.. As not only can depression cause bad control, bad control can cause depression!

So they bringing in a scoring system called PAID (Problem Areas In Diabetes) a series of questions, that cover your control, lifestyle/impact, treatment, health team and education etc... The questions are Scored from 0-5, 0 no problems and 5, being server problems.. I filled one out last month when I had my consultant review..

Diabetes are twice as likely to suffer from depression than an non-diabetic and now they are taking this seriously and hoping if they can pick up those diabetics who are struggling earlier help can be more productive.. As not only can depression cause bad control, bad control can cause depression!

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Jopar, are there any studies or links I can read to expand on that statement please? I was told that the physiological fluctuations in blood sugar levels and subsequent hormonal surges can cause chemically induced non-reactive depression in Diabetics, but i forgot to ask for the back-up info on it.