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Diabetes side effects

1

100nettie

Member
Messages
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I have type 2 diabetes, controlled with Metformin and Sitagliptin.

However, I appear to be suffering from some nasty side effects. I keep getting oral thrush. It's driving me mad. Nothing will clear it apart from a week's course of flucozanole. Sometimes, I no sooner finish the course when I get it again.

It starts in my throat, and makes me feel like I have something to cough out. Then it progresses as a white film on my tongue. Patches of this then fall out and leave raw, bleeding areas on my tongue. Needless to say, it's extremely painful.

I eat a healthy diet, and have cut out anything with sugar or a high fat amount. I've been seeing a dietitian, and over the last year have been steadily losing weight.

I have spoken to my diabetes doctor about it, he says my readings are fine and there's no reason why I would keep getting this, but I never had it before I was diagnosed with diabetes. (my HBA1c is 7.4%)

I've tried probiotics, drinks, yogurts, etc, the medicated gel, the nystatic liquid (nasty) and nothing will shift it.

I even caught a cold, and because I had a pocket of thrush in my throat, I couldn't breathe when the cold swelled my throat. I had to go and have a naso gastric tube put into my throat to knock some of the thrush off, and an intensive 2 week course of flucozanole. But it has come back again.

Does anyone else suffer from this? If so, is there a natural way to control it without being on flucozanole permanently? I would appreciate any help you can give with this.
 
However, I appear to be suffering from some nasty side effects. I keep getting oral thrush. It's driving me mad. Nothing will clear it apart from a week's course of flucozanole. Sometimes, I no sooner finish the course when I get it again.
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A classic sign of running high BG numbers.

I've tried probiotics, drinks, yogurts, etc, the medicated gel, the nystatic liquid (nasty) and nothing will shift it.
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Save your money. Drop the carbs and sugar. Get to none diabetic A1c numbers and the thrush will go.
 
Do you have COPD or Asthma? As some inhalers can cause this problem especially the steroid ones.

If you dont then as carbman suggests reducing your postprandial bg levels may help :thumbup:
 
I agree with above. You need to adjust either your diet (reduce the starchy carbs), or adjust the meds, to get your sugar levels lower. They tell us things like "7.4 is fine" when most organisations that count know that closer to six is far better. Many try (and succeed) to go lower than that. 7.4 HbA1C equates to an overall average blood sugar level (the units you measure on your meter) of over 10. That's too high for comfort in the opinion of most. That will cause your side effects without doubt.
 
I agree grazer. I believe our NICE levels for 2 hours after a meal is too high. It is reckoned levels higher than 7.8 is when the problems start. The HbA1c score is an OK average, but its your after meal results which are the most important ones.
 
Hi. I also had thrush of the genital kind when I was first diagnosed due to the high sugar dumps by my kidneys. Although yours is oral thrush as others have said getting your BS down a bit further should make it go away; an Hba1c below 7 is the way to go. Don't worry too much about fat intake as this does not directly affect DB, although too much may block the arteries eventually. Fat taken with carbs can even help. Carb intake is the thing to focus on not just sugar.
 
I agree with the lowering BG advice, I had repeated episodes of thrush before being diagnosed with db, I was constantly taking diflucan and canesten, only for it to return a week or so later. I haven't had thrush since I was diagnosed and started controlling my bg with a low carb diet, might be worth giving a it go not only to get rid of the thrush, but to decrease your risk of complications in the future
 
I agree with all the others about cutting down the carbs and not worrying about the fat
I had a problem with mouth ulcers that just wouldnt shift and I tried a product called Molcosan (not sure of the spelling) it is made from whey so it is a natural product and can actually be used to make salad dressing ,anyway by garggling with this and swilling out my mouth the ulcers cleared .May be worth a try .It is produced by Vogel
CAROL
 
Thanks everyone. I do have asthma, and I clean my inhaler every day before I use it. I have been asthmatic since I was 3 months old and never suffered oral thrush before. Looks like I'm going to have to overhaul my diet, which wont go down well with my doctor, who insists I must eat carbs with every meal!
 
100nettie said:
Thanks everyone. I do have asthma, and I clean my inhaler every day before I use it. I have been asthmatic since I was 3 months old and never suffered oral thrush before.
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Ask your GP if he could give you a spacer for your inhaler and see if it calms it down a bit. Keep eating pro biotic yogurts, just mind the sugar content in some.... swish it around in your mouth and don't eat or drink anything after for a while.

Another natural remedy is a mixture of equal parts of licorice, myrrh, and Echinacea. Use one teaspoon of this remedy as a mouthwash that is taken with water every three to four hours.

Another is Onions and Garlic. I know, stinky, but they have anti fungal properties. Increase the amount of garlic used in your food to eliminate yeast infection. Onions will help heal the white patches in your mouth.

Another anti fungal mouth wash is warm water, cider vinegar and a pinch of salt to fight the fungus. Swish the wash around the mouth, making sure to reach all corners. Use it as a gargle for the throat.

For pain relieve try using dye free benadryl, swish it like a mouth wash thoroughly through the mouth and between teeth and then slowly swallow it. It will numb your tongue a little and your throat too. Just don't go over the daily recommended dose.

I hope you'll find some relieve soon
 
When you overhaul your diet, be sure to put the fat back in. Fats -- especially monosaturated fats and omega 3 fatty acids -- are important for good health. They will also make you feel full. Only saturated fat and trans-fats need to be controlled.
 

I disagree so thought I would post to that effect, you have just given your opinion and posted it so it appears to be fact and it is not, I dont believe that increasing any fat in a diet is a good idea, so perhaps you could add IMO or IMHO in future posts of this sort :thumbup:

Not saying that fat should be avoided just that no one has to increase their fat intake unless they are on a ketosis diet >30g of carbs, if you increase your fat intake when not in ketosis you will never loose weight.
 
You are right. I misread the original post to say that she had eliminated fats from her diet, but she said she had only eliminated high-fat foods. There is no need to purposely eat a high-fat diet.

However, I'm not going to say IMO or IMHO because it should be understood that everything posted here is an opinion.

Since I am posting, I would like to disagree with East Man who said that it is the post-prandial numbers that are the important ones. All BS numbers are important. It's only a theory that the post-prandial numbers are most important.

However, an A1c of 7.4% is high enough to result in complications, and I agree with the others that getting that down (to, say, 6.0) would undoubtedly help.
 

Thanks for replying Caleb.

I think that most people, myself included, would say that postprandial readings are the most important as if they are high (spikes) that will have a direct effect your HbA1c but if they can be levelled out then the A1C comes down as a consequence, where as a fasting reading tells you very little other than to pat yourself on the back if they are low or to worry if they are high. Everything is dependant on your postprandial readings.
 

That's not my opinion. I don't think the experts are certain about it.

Which is better, a BS level that is constantly 8.0, or a BS level that ranges from 6.0 to 9.5? I don't think we know. Certainly, BS spikes after meals aren't good, but it is also important to get your BS down between meals. A person who is able to get down to 6.0 between meals probably isn't having spikes to 9.5 anyway (unless he or she is taking insulin, which can result in sharp spikes if a shot is missed). Thus, focussing on your fasting BS levels isn't a bad strategy because it will probably bring down your post-prandial levels also.
 
Caleb Murdock said:
That's not my opinion. I don't think the experts are certain about it.

Which is better, a BS level that is constantly 8.0, or a BS level that ranges from 6.0 to 9.5?
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I have never mentioned experts I was just referring to the diabetics who have gained good control

As to which is better high readings or high readings well neither IMO. Let me explain what I mean when I say the the postprandial readings are the most important.

A fasting reading and to some extent a pre meal reading will tell you at what level your at at that moment in time and there is nothing you can do about it unless you are using insulin and are able to take a correction dose, postprandial readings however can be used to work out what foods are causing them and by reducing those foods in our diets we can bring those postprandial readings down. Now as they come down so will the fasting and pre meal readings, so the only readings that we as T2 can use to reduce our HbA1c's are postprandial readings.

My postprandial readings are rarely over 6.5 mmol/L consequently I can not have higher pre meal readings as the two hour postprandial are (generally) always higher than pre meal readings. Then as a further consequence of reducing pre meal readings - by reducing postprandial readings - our fasting readings come down.

Therefore postprandial readings are the most important, I rarely test now a days as I have good control but when I do I test the occasional postprandial reading just to check that my metabolism has not changed, if either I was to become more insulin resistant again or if my pancreatic function was to become more impaired then it would show up first in my postprandial readings.

In other words all readings are directly related to and dependant on our postprandial levels

I hope that explains my point of view clearer than my previous quick answer :thumbup:
 
It looks like we were at cross-purposes. I was thinking in terms of which is worse for the body. I agree with everything you say.

Incidentally, the same principle applies to insulin as to diet. Many doctors prescribe Lantus for their patients because the patients don't want to take more than one shot a day, but Lanus isn't made to handle post-prandial peaks. Using regular insulin to handle your post-prandial peaks will result in lower fasting levels too, provided that you still have some pancreatic function, and that you always eat your carbs within the 4-5 hours that the shot is effective. Even though I wasn't eating a low-carb diet, I got my A1c of 6.2 by carefully shooting regular insulin before all my meals. By making one of those meals carb-free, I was able to take just 2 shots a day.
 

Just to say Sid, that's EXACTLY my view, and how I use testing nowadays (Occasionally as a check, or if I'm trying something new). Post prandial for T2s, particularly for those on non-hypo inducing drugs who don't have that extra concern to test for, is the most important and the way to good control.
 
It was repeated bout of oral thrush that prompted me to go to the doctors in the first place, since diagnosed with diabetes.I was given Daktarin Gel, but it kept coming back, so I tired a Canesten Oral (for thrush down below) and it cleared the Oral Thrush and sorted out the stomach problems I had.I had 2 doses of this and fingers crossed it hasnt returned but that could be because I am having a lot of Hypos now.I would say cut down on starchy carbs and anything sweet as thrush will thrive on these, also you need to try and lower your sugar levels x
 
This is the strand of information I have been looking for !!!!!

As a Type 1, can anyone give me some guidelines on what the BS spikes should look like? Reading this, 9.5 should be the top end ... is that after 1 hour? And does it make a difference what insulin regime we're on?

I can't get the diabetic staff to explore options and talk round things! Its driving me bonkers as I'm making loads of mistakes as I try out different doses and foods.
 
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