Diabetes snobbery

[Antje77]

But aren't you just perpetuating the myth... if obesity is a symptom of Type 2 rather than the cause (due to insulin resistance and fat storage) then its not really to do with over eating..more a hormonal imbalance. I must admit I find your comment a tad disappointing.

Thanks for saving me from posting something that possibly would have had to be removed.

 

[AdamJames]

my mother who thinks nothing of eating *8* ice lollys in an evening as well as dinner crisps and chocolate. She does have a number of other problems which are outside her control. There is no genetic component (my type 1 came from my dad) but when the dr told her he thought she had diabetes came crying to me. That I have 0 sympathy for.

Well I have a lot of sympathy for her. She is not evil. She likes eating the food that she likes, the same as everyone else. That's what people do. They do what they want. She likes crisps and chocolate. Other people like carrots. Some people eat one doughnut and feel ill. Some people eat one doughnut and want more.

I can understand that if you tried to educate her about how she can possibly get better by eating different things, and she didn't give it a try, you might be frustrated. But if you genuinely have zero sympathy then it's not just your mother that has something she needs to work on.

Also, you don't know there is no genetic component.

 

[NicoleC1971]

In reply to @bulkbiker @AdamJames and @Resurgam I did say those who overeat - I didn't say those who have genetic components or various other ailments that make them become type 2. I was specifically thinking of my mother who thinks nothing of eating *8* ice lollys in an evening as well as dinner crisps and chocolate. She does have a number of other problems which are outside her control. There is no genetic component (my type 1 came from my dad) but when the dr told her he thought she had diabetes came crying to me. That I have 0 sympathy for.

I have a type 2 dad too who I used to think had brought it on himself by his battenburg munching ways. He was so ashamed of his diagnosis that he did not tell me for 6 months yet I felt very sorry for him when he finally told me. Please think again about why your mum eats 8 ice lollies a day. If she is insulin resistant her body is craving energy and her blood sugars will be like a rollercoaster causing further cravings. That's biology and not a moral failing! As a type 2 she may also be getting the wrong advice from her doctor re going low carb and like my dad, be handed lots of pills without addressing the root cause! Dad is 69 and would rather believe his GP plus believes he is addicted to white bread! Frustrating when I have to work very hard to keep healthy and he could reverse his condition with more effort but it is his choice.

 

[phdiabetic]

As a T1 I really do wish I could be T2 instead, but I would NEVER insult a T2 the way she did, it's a good way to ruin a night with an argument. When I was first diagnosed I felt really angry towards T2, but after joining this forum I met a lot of T2s I actually liked, so I felt better. On other internet forums I also met lots of T1s I don't like. Overall I learnt there will always be people I do and don't like, and that type doesn't matter as much as somebody's attitude and personality!

I wish we could change names, as others in the thread have mentioned. T1 and T2 are so different, there is not much benefit calling it the same thing. The confusion between the types is hurting people more than helping.

 

[Engineer88]

@AdamJames if there are no other diabetics for generations either way then I think that covers genetics.

@NicoleC1971 shes seen me blue lighted to hospitals so many times it should be incentive to buck up. I've told her she needs to improve what she eats, she knows what carbs are and can cook low carb for me.

Thankfully she isn't diabetic (yet) but honestly its such a bad relationship I should probably just give up on her.

 

[Circuspony]

But even GPs can take that view. When mine sent me to A&E after realising I was likely LADA & not T2 his parting shot was "well at least you know now you've got the type that isn't self inflicted".... if that was supposed to make a newly diagnosed T1 feel better it failed.

 

[AdamJames]

@AdamJames if there are no other diabetics for generations either way then I think that covers genetics.

Only if you are angry and want to simplify things to help give yourself ammunition to judge your mother poorly. I'm sorry you don't have a good relationship with her, and I'm sorry you have T1.

But to be open-minded, I think we have to acknowledge that all we can be sure about is whether our parents, grandparents etc have been diagnosed with diabetes. And even then, we can't be sure about that. I know my mother is diabetic, and I strongly suspect my father was diabetic, but he never talked about stuff like that and I didn't live with him. And even if by some unusual means you could prove that nobody in your family has ever been genetically susceptible to T2, that doesn't mean your mother isn't. She may not have inherited susceptibility, but that doesn't mean she doesn't have genetic susceptibility.

Also, I'd love to hear a definition of "over-eating". Again, it may seem clear-cut if you are angry. But if you want to come up with a definition that everyone can agree on, I think you've got a hell of a task on your hands.

I'm only making these arguments to make a general point that it doesn't hurt to be a bit more open-minded.

 

[rom35]

he issue though is that the lifestyle that causes it, is the one recommended by official bodies. So, can we be blamed for not knowing any better? I used to drink loads of fruit juice thinking it was healty. Now, I understand that this is probably one of the worst things we can do not only because of the glucose it contains, but also because the high levels of fructose and lack of fiber which lead to fatty liver.

Exactly, how can we blame ourselfs, when market propaganda based on official recommendation leads to T2D? Who will not belive his/her doc/government in this area? I allways say: Yes, genes play big role in T2D, but in oposite meaning - 40% of people has genes not so strong to resist official government diet rules - leads to mortal obesity, T2D and other "civilization" illness.

 

[Antje77]

When one of the groups invited friend piped up that that my Type 2 was self induced, and T2's have only themselves to blame, where her type 1 was worse than Type 2's and proceeded to regale us with her history and ailments.

Sounds like self-centered, ignorant *****. Things like this happen occasionally, but it usually comes from a non-diabetic and not a type1.
I'm not completely sure I have type1(LADA) and not type2, but I'm fat, so people see what they expect to see when they find out I have diabetes. When non-d's try to tell me I should lose weight or just change my diet to get rid of my diabetes I'm confident enough to ask them how that would make my immune-system stop from killing my insulin-producing cells and even regrow them. I usually follow that by explaining how it's thought that a failing endocrine system is responsible for both diabetes and obesity in type2, so could they please have some more consideration next time they meet someone with diabetes.
With other D's and close friends I make sure they know my diagnosis is not 100% clear, but the close friends by now know quite a lot about both type1 and type2, so they will never again think someone has brought their diabetes upon themselves. It might make the world a better place in very small steps

For the woman in the friends'group, I would try to avoid her. She doesn't sound like a very nice person.

I'm treated as type1, and I'm always very impressed by type2's who manage their blood-glucose with only diet and/or tablets, whithout the help of some insulin. Must be just as hard work as managing insulin, but whithout tools to correct when making a mistake. Keep it up!

 

[kev-w]

This very own site has an article on reversing T2 https://www.diabetes.co.uk/reversing-diabetes.html but unfortunately mentions the weight problems often experienced by those who suffer from it, I say unfortunately as that is the T2 stereotype, like it or not I'm afraid, and as a T1 who was never overweight and always physically active, it's a wind up when someone comments that you don't look fat/ill, which in turn puts us on the defensive, and when you're on the defensive you're most often offended, or at least I am

My neighbours have a couple of T2s, ones under 30, neither are overweight but there's other genetic problems there too, an old mate of mine's t2 and is about 6 stone overweight and still can eat a pizza and a kebab in the same sitting along with his metformin testing once every never, an old workmate developed t2, was on insulin but a diet change and bitter melon has seen him medication free, another guy I met in a gym time back reversed his t2 by weight training and diet.

I've no opinion either way but do frown quite often on t2 comments on the t1 section, but bet I'm not alone in that.

 

[Freema]

it is basically wrong to think one knows all of another person's reasons to become ill... I myself see type 1 diabetes as more frightening and harder to control.. but well that is only because I am not that hard hit by type 2 yet... many type 2´s do suffer horrendously from all kinds of adding disases and conditions... and many live their last 10-20 years in terrible pain filled with infections their bodies can not heal
in the end those two diseases are really two very different diseases... and actually ... they ought have much more divided names than the case is today..

 

[Bluetit1802]

But even GPs can take that view. When mine sent me to A&E after realising I was likely LADA & not T2 his parting shot was "well at least you know now you've got the type that isn't self inflicted".... if that was supposed to make a newly diagnosed T1 feel better it failed.

That is the most shameful thing I've seen on this thread. I am appalled.

 

[Circuspony]

That is the most shameful thing I've seen on this thread. I am appalled.

Tbh I think my surgery take the view that T2 is a "lifestyle disease". When they first realised I had a problem I was booked in for a session with the diabetic nurse. I went into her room and she had a handful of leaflets / handouts to give me all about weight loss, eating correctly etc. I think she was planning some tough talking, but given I was 7.5 stone at the time (gotta love DKA) weight loss wasn't really on the agenda......

 

[Bluetit1802]

Tbh I think my surgery take the view that T2 is a "lifestyle disease". When they first realised I had a problem I was booked in for a session with the diabetic nurse. I went into her room and she had a handful of leaflets / handouts to give me all about weight loss, eating correctly etc. I think she was planning some tough talking, but given I was 7.5 stone at the time (gotta love DKA) weight loss wasn't really on the agenda......

Your weight must have flummoxed her no end! Her rehearsed speech stopped in its tracks the moment she saw you. Poor woman must have been at loss as to what to say!

 

[Bluetit1802]

I was overweight when I had my first appointment with my nurse, but to be fair to her, she never mentioned it, and to be fair to myself, I had no idea weight was an issue with T2. How's about that for ignorance. It was before the media cottoned on to the T2 pandemic and the gluttony and sloth attitudes. I actually asked her what type I was, and then when she said T2, I asked her how she knew. Her reply was simply that had I been T1 I would have been very ill. (which I wasn't)

 

[Circuspony]

Your weight must have flummoxed her no end! Her rehearsed speech stopped in its tracks the moment she saw you. Poor woman must have been at loss as to what to say!

She just kept saying but you MUST be type 2 because you're old (great!). Followed by 'we find exercise is really important' - me 'if I exercise any more in a day I'll have no time for sleeping'. It was like she couldn't talk about diet to the under weight woman in front of her so fixated on exercise.

Given you could have ticked off the type 1 symptoms there and then I haven't had much faith in my surgery since!!

 

[Oldvatr]

I really feel for the Type 1's. They have to learn to manage their diabetes and that is all day every day for the rest of their lives. Some Type 2's are able with lifestyle changes to bring their condition under control without medication - this is not possible at this time for Type 1's. I only test to check how I'm doing whilst Type 1's need to check in order to manage how much insulin is needed etc.

I think you are getting close here to a poignant difference between T1D and T2D et al, which IMO tends to allow T1D to consider their condition to be the more important one, From DX, a T1D is forced to take their condition seriously, and to make treatment issues take high priority in their lives. To disregard their treatment can have fatal consequences, whereas for me it is merely an inconvenience. Although I could and may yet progress over time to becoming insulin dependant, I am at present able to control things in a fairly relaxed manner,

I do not inject, I do not weigh and carb count my food intake, I do not bolus adjust, I do not really have to consider protein except at the macro level, and my brain is uncluttered with the myriad for insulin treatment issues such as choosing sites, storage of consumables etc that are necessary. I can breeze through life and not worry if I get the occasional blip such as is being caused currently by a surfeit of Easter chocolate and hot X buns, So I accept that a T1D has deeper issues to face, and has a more pressing need for things to be done right.

As regards what the general populace thinks and says, I don't give a tuppeny toss, I know what I need in my life, and I can ignore these barbs and arrows. Sticks and Stones etc, and labels never hurt me.

 

[kokhongw]

Unfortunately most T1D and T2D remain sadly ignorant and resistant to the idea that carbs reduction can greatly improved their condition. That insulin resistance and high circulating insulin are the common enemy that awaits those who are not carbs aware.

It doesn't help that for decades, doctors and dietitians around the world consider it unsafe and unwise to consider or attempt achieve normal glucose levels thru carbs...and actively discourage them...because essentially there are no long term study to show that normal glucose level thru carbs reduction is safe.

The usual mantra that carbs are essential, and contain irreplaceable nutrients, we must eat 200g/day and 5 meals a day or else. That fats, fasting and ketones are inherently dangerous and life threatening...

The hundreds or perhaps thousands of anecdotal success of T2D diabetes remission or normal HbA1c for T1D seen on this forum is but a drop in the global ocean of hundreds of millions of T1D and T2D.

So...no, I am not surprise that your friends think that we ate our way to T2D at all.

 

[Ragmar]

On another forum a user had a similar problem, a type 1 unloaded on him and it was funny because another type 1 came to his defence. "It's not the suffering Olympics!" Followed by "I’m a T1 myself and I don’t really understand the “superiority complex” (for lack of a better word) and resentment some T1’s have toward T2’s. They both suck, it’s not a competition ***."

 

[Bluetit1802]

On another forum a user had a similar problem, a type 1 unloaded on him and it was funny because another type 1 came to his defence. "It's not the suffering Olympics!" Followed by "I’m a T1 myself and I don’t really understand the “superiority complex” (for lack of a better word) and resentment some T1’s have toward T2’s. They both suck, it’s not a competition ***."

Believe me, it has happened on this forum, more than once. Plus bickering along the "us and them" lines.