Diabetic life expectancy

sterling

Well-Known Member
Messages
159
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Is there any validity in the extract below which quotes Dr. Brett Osborn?

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/lifestyles/can-diabetes-drug-metformin-extend-your-life/nphYp/

" ... five-year study that was published in the medical journal “Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism,” “Researchers compared mortality in diabetics who were taking Metformin with matched, non-diabetic control subjects. There were more than 78,000 subjects in the study. On average, the diabetics on Metformin lived 15 percent longer than the non-diabetics — even though diabetics typically succumb to age-related diseases earlier ... "
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

4ratbags

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,334
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Diet only
The only problem is unless you know what your exact expected death date is how do you really know if youve lived longer.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 13 people

DaveNN

Well-Known Member
Messages
327
Having suffered the extreme effects of met...I cannot verify that it will make you live longer...but it may well seem like it...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 people

Robbity

Expert
Messages
6,700
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I'd sooner have quality of life rather than quantity.

There was another similar thread about drug increased life expectancy fairly recently.

Robbity
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 people

PatsyB

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,047
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Insulin
Dislikes
Diabetes
well now sounds interesting if true ....:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people

mekalu2k4

Well-Known Member
Messages
242
Type of diabetes
Parent
Treatment type
I do not have diabetes
my dad is 82 now, has T2D and high blood pressure, under went open heart procedure two years back. Yet, he never does any workout. Diet is moderate, but he is not a big time eater; A strict veg diet and no alcohol - all his life. I would describe him as very lazy, a couch potato, a committed TV viewer - mostly football and X-box games; since last 3 decades after retirement as a very high end executive. He takes a whole lot of medications everyday, sometimes he forgets taking them too. He is happy the way he is, no regular or routine tests with docs either.

On the other hand I sweat out everyday, and living a very cautious life to avoid onset of T2D. I visit him twice a year [living in another country] - he will wonder why I go for morning walk. He smiles at me and says, 'few folks do not know how to live'. nuff said.

Edit: Addition:
He has T2D and hypertension for last 30 years. He has been obese all his life, had a high flying executive/ stressful career. Obesity + job stress + colas+coffee might have caused T2D. Eventually he had to retire due to health issues when he was 55. Since then he is on medications.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Tom Green

Well-Known Member
Messages
91
Type of diabetes
Treatment type
Insulin
I never worry about that. Never wanted to get old. I'm 71.had quintuplet bypass, and now I'm worried I will get old.
My blood pressure non medicated is 105/55/56 . I was on Metformin Max dose for years now on Janumet, Lantus, Novo Rapid ,aspirin ,a glicide and Crestore. My cholesterol was always great but because of my diabetes they medicate to be safe.
 

ShaliniJ

Newbie
Messages
1
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
The only problem is unless you know what your exact expected death date is how do you really know if youve lived longer.
Have you reduced your diabeties just by not eating carb or did you included exercise
 

pleinster

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,631
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
ignorance
I'm not on metformin coz its not recommended for kidney transplant patients..but if I don't get hit by a bus I would expect to live to reasonable old age without these complications..I have adopted a very low carb diet, very successfully, and my levels are all vastly improved. We all differ. Statistics would say I should have been on dialysis by my thirties and quite ill in my twenties. I was symptom free apart from high blood pressure until I was about 50 and never had to have dialysis. We get on with stuff or we don't. there are exceptions to the rule..always...and..sometimes the rule..is badly represented in the first place.
 

jock 59

Newbie
Messages
2
Hi, I recall not to long ago where studies stated people on statins would have a prelonged live, which i am on, here's me thinking i will get my birthday card from the Queen/King
Then they state that they got it wrong, bang goes my card
the thing with the studies is to take them with a pinch of salt as they are like politicians statements designed to grab the headlines
Similar to the wonderful invention of the inhaler to replace insulin injections with less side effects
but later decided to be to expensive
 

Magisham

Well-Known Member
Messages
152
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I'm not on metformin coz its not recommended for kidney transplant patients..but if I don't get hit by a bus I would expect to live to reasonable old age without these complications..I have adopted a very low carb diet, very successfully, and my levels are all vastly improved. We all differ. Statistics would say I should have been on dialysis by my thirties and quite ill in my twenties. I was symptom free apart from high blood pressure until I was about 50 and never had to have dialysis. We get on with stuff or we don't. there are exceptions to the rule..always...and..sometimes the rule..is badly represented in the first place.
My partner became diabetic after his kidney transplant 2 years ago. They started him off on Glicazide, but he has been on Metformin for 2 years now as well because they couldn't control the diabetes. It was the kidney clinic that put him on these drugs. Should we ask them about them? They seemed to think there was nothing else they could give him. He is on a 3rd drug too, but I can't remember the name of it.
 

AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,581
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
My partner became diabetic after his kidney transplant 2 years ago. They started him off on Glicazide, but he has been on Metformin for 2 years now as well because they couldn't control the diabetes. It was the kidney clinic that put him on these drugs. Should we ask them about them? They seemed to think there was nothing else they could give him. He is on a 3rd drug too, but I can't remember the name of it.

I don't take and medication and thankfully have decent kidneys, it seems, so I don't have any personal wisdom here. The Metformin Patient Information Leaflet (PIL) does mention kidney problems, but I think only your partner's medical advisors for his kidneys or if he has a diabetes consultant would really know what course of action, if any, should be adopted.

If you have concerns, it would be wise to contact them.

It would be good if you'd let us know how you get on. Good luck with it all.
 

pleinster

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,631
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
ignorance
My partner became diabetic after his kidney transplant 2 years ago. They started him off on Glicazide, but he has been on Metformin for 2 years now as well because they couldn't control the diabetes. It was the kidney clinic that put him on these drugs. Should we ask them about them? They seemed to think there was nothing else they could give him. He is on a 3rd drug too, but I can't remember the name of it.

Hi. I wouldn't be too alarmed by the use of metformin in your partner's case. there is currently much debate about whether or not it is advisable in kidney transplant patients - and this because, while it is a very good drug to improve glucose control and reduce the incidence of "diabetic complications" in the general population...and has other benefits related mainly to the health of the heart, it can case severe lactic acidosis in patients with poorer kidney function. With lactic acidosis, lactate is built up in the body causing a low pH- and this means higher acid level the blood. That can cause nausea, vomiting, fatigue, rapid breathing, palpitations..and can become quite a serious problem for some. As kidney transplant patients are prone to big problems if their graft rejects, it is maintained that such patients are therefore risk group for poor kidney function. That said, modern approaches to post-transplant treatment and the individual monitoring and balancing of drugs like tacrolimus (prograf) and MMF - which your partner is probably taking - make rejection less and less likely, and this is only improving. So, some now believe that metformin is appropriate even for kidney transplant patients. My kidney function for example is now around 65% (better than some "normal" people's function), and the better the function the less risk of lactic acidosis etc etc. So what I am saying is...because of these issues and past concerns that metformin was what's called "contraindicted" in relation to transplant patients, and so it's not going to be first choice as a treatment for new onset diabetes (probably caused by any steroids your partner takes...I'm thinking he will be on quite a wee pile of drugs). Renal specialists would not put your partner on this drug if they were particularly concerned about it. I suggest you print out this..and show it to a doctor who will probably agree with what I'm saying. It's what all my real doctors are saying. I was placed on Gliclazide rather than metformin for these reasons, but it's more the case that it is not perfect..what is..rather than it being necessarily a problem. I came off Gliclazide because I got my diabetes under control through a very low carb diet. I'm not on meds for it now and my steroid (to help fight rejection) has been cut right down. Ask the doctors about the impact of any steroid he is on, and if its safe to reduce it further (as this would further lower the blood sugar level). It is hard to control blood sugar while on a high dose of a steroid (like prednisolone). In the past this was unthinkable, but that was before we had drugs like tacrolimus and MMF etc to combat rejection effectively (without steroids). Anyway, I'm trying to tell you not to worry and I hope my explanation makes sense. Talk it through with a renal doctor, raising these points, and I'm sure he or she will be happy to do so, and will reassure you as to the reasons why they are content to use metformin. it's just not the usual first choice is all. I would add, just for the sake of it - make sure he is drinking plenty of fluid to prevent dehydration (this will help both kidney function, helping the creatinine level to stay lower, and will also assist him in lowering blood sugar. since my transplant over a year ago now, I drink about 3 litres a day of water with a very small amount of diluting juice (Robinsons) for taste. I hope it all goes well. Do let me know how things are. If there is anything I can help with at all, don't hesitate to ask. I hope I haven't ranted on and on to the point of total boredom! I can do a power of talking!! Paul
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 people
S

Sean01

Guest
Is there any validity in the extract below which quotes Dr. Brett Osborn?

http://www.mypalmbeachpost.com/news/lifestyles/can-diabetes-drug-metformin-extend-your-life/nphYp/

" ... five-year study that was published in the medical journal “Diabetes, Obesity and Metabolism,” “Researchers compared mortality in diabetics who were taking Metformin with matched, non-diabetic control subjects. There were more than 78,000 subjects in the study. On average, the diabetics on Metformin lived 15 percent longer than the non-diabetics — even though diabetics typically succumb to age-related diseases earlier ... "
This makes a lot of sense. I work in the life insurance industry. i regularly see that people who have hight and weight issues (let's face it, it's mainly weight issues!!) who don't take medication have loaded premiums. In other words, a medical officer thinks there is a reduced life expectancy. On the other hand, if you recognise you have a problem and do something about it (diet, exercise and metformin) you would expect to live longer.
Moral: face the problem and deal with it. My wife doesn't go to the doctor - she believes she is healthy. She doesn't exercise because she doesn't need to (everybody in her family is healthy. She comes from a health family - but she doesn't realise that her brothers play hockey, cycle, canoe, run, train in a gym etc as part of their weekly routine. I work out with weights 4 times a week and train aerobically - 5-7 times a week. My wife now gives me her polo shirts as she has grown out of them and they are baggy on me. Dress size 30 +. So, no exercise, no medical check ups and she is so lucky she can eat what she likes including enough chocolate to kill most of the people on this site. Classic denial! Pity really. I quite like her and was looking forward to spending a reasonably active retirement with her. The likelyhood is that I will be pushing a wheel chair around before I'm 65 - but probably not for long. (Glad I got that off my chest!)
 

Magisham

Well-Known Member
Messages
152
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi. I wouldn't be too alarmed by the use of metformin in your partner's case. there is currently much debate about whether or not it is advisable in kidney transplant patients - and this because, while it is a very good drug to improve glucose control and reduce the incidence of "diabetic complications" in the general population...and has other benefits related mainly to the health of the heart, it can case severe lactic acidosis in patients with poorer kidney function. With lactic acidosis, lactate is built up in the body causing a low pH- and this means higher acid level the blood. That can cause nausea, vomiting, fatigue, rapid breathing, palpitations..and can become quite a serious problem for some. As kidney transplant patients are prone to big problems if their graft rejects, it is maintained that such patients are therefore risk group for poor kidney function. That said, modern approaches to post-transplant treatment and the individual monitoring and balancing of drugs like tacrolimus (prograf) and MMF - which your partner is probably taking - make rejection less and less likely, and this is only improving. So, some now believe that metformin is appropriate even for kidney transplant patients. My kidney function for example is now around 65% (better than some "normal" people's function), and the better the function the less risk of lactic acidosis etc etc. So what I am saying is...because of these issues and past concerns that metformin was what's called "contraindicted" in relation to transplant patients, and so it's not going to be first choice as a treatment for new onset diabetes (probably caused by any steroids your partner takes...I'm thinking he will be on quite a wee pile of drugs). Renal specialists would not put your partner on this drug if they were particularly concerned about it. I suggest you print out this..and show it to a doctor who will probably agree with what I'm saying. It's what all my real doctors are saying. I was placed on Gliclazide rather than metformin for these reasons, but it's more the case that it is not perfect..what is..rather than it being necessarily a problem. I came off Gliclazide because I got my diabetes under control through a very low carb diet. I'm not on meds for it now and my steroid (to help fight rejection) has been cut right down. Ask the doctors about the impact of any steroid he is on, and if its safe to reduce it further (as this would further lower the blood sugar level). It is hard to control blood sugar while on a high dose of a steroid (like prednisolone). In the past this was unthinkable, but that was before we had drugs like tacrolimus and MMF etc to combat rejection effectively (without steroids). Anyway, I'm trying to tell you not to worry and I hope my explanation makes sense. Talk it through with a renal doctor, raising these points, and I'm sure he or she will be happy to do so, and will reassure you as to the reasons why they are content to use metformin. it's just not the usual first choice is all. I would add, just for the sake of it - make sure he is drinking plenty of fluid to prevent dehydration (this will help both kidney function, helping the creatinine level to stay lower, and will also assist him in lowering blood sugar. since my transplant over a year ago now, I drink about 3 litres a day of water with a very small amount of diluting juice (Robinsons) for taste. I hope it all goes well. Do let me know how things are. If there is anything I can help with at all, don't hesitate to ask. I hope I haven't ranted on and on to the point of total boredom! I can do a power of talking!! Paul
Thank you so much for your reply. My partner's GP has been banging on to him about the Metformin and I keep saying the kidney specialists should know more than her. He had a kidney from his daughter and the doctor who did it (Italian) said "You have the Ferrari of kidneys". So far so good with it. He is on 2 Tacrolimus and 2 MMF a day, plus 1 steroid (Prednisone? Something like that). They did say they could change the Tacrolimus, but were reluctant to do so as he has kept well on it. He is getting a bit disheartened as we are being so careful with the diet ......... no bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, etc, living on meat, fish, eggs salad, vegetables, nuts, olives, etc........and his sugar is starting to go up again. I don't know if we are doing something wrong or if the tablets are just not controlling it. I really don't want him to start on insulin unless he really has to. Thanks again for all the support.
 

pleinster

Well-Known Member
Messages
1,631
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
ignorance
Thank you so much for your reply. My partner's GP has been banging on to him about the Metformin and I keep saying the kidney specialists should know more than her. He had a kidney from his daughter and the doctor who did it (Italian) said "You have the Ferrari of kidneys". So far so good with it. He is on 2 Tacrolimus and 2 MMF a day, plus 1 steroid (Prednisone? Something like that). They did say they could change the Tacrolimus, but were reluctant to do so as he has kept well on it. He is getting a bit disheartened as we are being so careful with the diet ......... no bread, rice, pasta, potatoes, etc, living on meat, fish, eggs salad, vegetables, nuts, olives, etc........and his sugar is starting to go up again. I don't know if we are doing something wrong or if the tablets are just not controlling it. I really don't want him to start on insulin unless he really has to. Thanks again for all the support.

Hi. There is no doubt in my mind at all, from years and years of experience (as I was diagnosed with polycystic kidneys at 17 year old as a result of an inherited condition), that while there are some excellent GPS - their knowledge compared to that of renal specialists is less convincing by some distance..but..it's great to have one so concerned and cautious. I can completely relate to your partner's situation. The kidney I received was from my sister, and I was told it was as pumping away as they attached it..a brilliant match. You say he is on 2 Tacrolimus a day but what is the dosage? It will be Prograf. So you know...the body has a tacrolimus level, and the doctors will want his to be in a certain range..so they prescribe so many mgs to achieve that. they can and will change that amount depending on the level's consistency. I take it and my MMF twice a day, and it's been changed a wee bit here and there as my levels have gone slightly up or down. Tacro fights rejection...too low and it isn't fighting enough..too high and the body's immune system is to open to bugs - so they check it at all his clinics in blood tests and will alter it to keep it just right. This drug and this specific kind of treatment is relatively recent and wasn't around years ago..hence the improvement in post-transplant success. It used to be the case (as with my mother) that they just prescribed steroids and hoped these were enough. Now, we are also given the steroid - prenisolone - as well BUT that can and does often cause new onset diabetes which can and often does lead to Type 2. My advice is ask about reducing the steroid..as I have done with complete support from my doctors...because it will push the blood sugar up. If your partner is self testing with a meter, he'll probably notice a spike in blood sugar a couple of hours after the takes the prednisolone. Mine is now a low dose and this has really made a difference..which helps control through low carb diet...and make sit all more achievable. note - ask your doctors about your husband having access to an online service called Patient View (if its UK)
as its easy to use and lets you see all test results and patterns over time. Hopefully, with less of the steroid, plenty of fluid intake and NO simple carbs (ie. those with over 10g carbohydrate per 100g of product), his blood sugar can be handled. i am no longer even on meds for diabetes. Good luck. Paul
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people

Magisham

Well-Known Member
Messages
152
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Hi. There is no doubt in my mind at all, from years and years of experience (as I was diagnosed with polycystic kidneys at 17 year old as a result of an inherited condition), that while there are some excellent GPS - their knowledge compared to that of renal specialists is less convincing by some distance..but..it's great to have one so concerned and cautious. I can completely relate to your partner's situation. The kidney I received was from my sister, and I was told it was as pumping away as they attached it..a brilliant match. You say he is on 2 Tacrolimus a day but what is the dosage? It will be Prograf. So you know...the body has a tacrolimus level, and the doctors will want his to be in a certain range..so they prescribe so many mgs to achieve that. they can and will change that amount depending on the level's consistency. I take it and my MMF twice a day, and it's been changed a wee bit here and there as my levels have gone slightly up or down. Tacro fights rejection...too low and it isn't fighting enough..too high and the body's immune system is to open to bugs - so they check it at all his clinics in blood tests and will alter it to keep it just right. This drug and this specific kind of treatment is relatively recent and wasn't around years ago..hence the improvement in post-transplant success. It used to be the case (as with my mother) that they just prescribed steroids and hoped these were enough. Now, we are also given the steroid - prenisolone - as well BUT that can and does often cause new onset diabetes which can and often does lead to Type 2. My advice is ask about reducing the steroid..as I have done with complete support from my doctors...because it will push the blood sugar up. If your partner is self testing with a meter, he'll probably notice a spike in blood sugar a couple of hours after the takes the prednisolone. Mine is now a low dose and this has really made a difference..which helps control through low carb diet...and make sit all more achievable. note - ask your doctors about your husband having access to an online service called Patient View (if its UK)
as its easy to use and lets you see all test results and patterns over time. Hopefully, with less of the steroid, plenty of fluid intake and NO simple carbs (ie. those with over 10g carbohydrate per 100g of product), his blood sugar can be handled. i am no longer even on meds for diabetes. Good luck. Paul
Thanks again. It is so good to talk to someone who understands what we have been going through. I can't remember his tacrolimus dose, but he has a blood test every 3 months and they said his levels are good. Just before his transplant they put him on 14 a day and he was so I'll I thought he was dying! We told 3 different people at the clinic and they all just said "He'll get used to it". Then, later in the day when they got the blood test results back, they rand up and said " Get him off the tacrolimus, his levels are far too high!!!" So now it's one in the morning and one at night. I will ask about the steroid when we next go. Don't have transplant clinic until July now. Disappointed this morning as we just had eggs at lunch time yesterday and grilled chicken with salad last night and his blood was 10 first thing. I wonder sometimes if he goes for too long without food. Or if he ate too much chicken as I know protein can put it up. It's frustrating. Don't know if it's morning liver dump. Will try it again in a while, 2 hours after eating.