Diet advice please

[jingyd36]

Hello.

I posted on the intro board earlier this week. I am not diabetic but my HBA1C was 38 in September and 40 in December which caused me concern. I have no family history and I am 36, 116lb female, I do yoga and i thought a good diet.

My cholesterol results were high which alarmed me but my GP said he was not concerned at my age and will just check both annually to monitor things. My HDL was 1.6, LDL 3.9 and Triglycerides 3. It was a non fasted sample and I had eaten half an hour before the blood was taken.

So I tried a high fat, low carb diet since the weekend and the last 2 days I have ffelt very ill. Weak, bran fog, headache, dizzy.... I have chronic fatigue syndrome and I was overcoming it alot, doing very well. I follow a mostly vegetarian diet. I eat little dairy, rarely any chicken, I started introducing a little chicken and fish to help my cholesterol. I felt much better in the last 3 weeks, I limited dairy and I felt my fatigue and ill health lifting. I don't have full blown CFS but it's been triggered by some thyroid/adrenal issues from a stressful time in my life last year. I haven't had a crash/tired day for a few weeks until i changed my diet and the last 2 days I feel awful. It's made me quite anxious. So I am stopping the high fat, low carb. I read you can experience these symptoms for up to 2 weeks but there is no way I can carry on feeling this bad.

Are vegetarian diets bad for blood sugar? A typical day before i went LCHF would be
Breakfast - Oats with almond milk, tablespoon of flaxseed, cinnamon and berries. Green smoothie with almond milk, kale, cucumber, banana or some other fruit.
Snack - 2 wholegrain rice cakes with guacamole or homemade red pepper hummus.
Lunch - Mackerel with gluten free toast or veggies.
Snack - Banana.
Dinner - Salmon with brown rice and veggies, vegetarian chilli with brown rice and homemade guacamole, tuna brown rice pasta with veggies, potato salad with veggie sausages and vegetables.....

Drinks - camomile tea, lemon balm tea or hot water with honey, fresh lemon and fresh ginger.

Is my diet that bad? Or would it be ok to carry on with this? I seemed to be improving greatly fatigue wise eating how I was above. I cut gluten out in December and IBS wise feel better for it so I won't be going back to eating gluten.

This has been my diet the last 2 months, prior to this i was ill with my fatigue and adrenal fatigue so was living off easy food, toast, oats, oven chips with mayo, quick dinners for the kids.... and in those few months i was ill I had my cholesterol and HBA1C taken. I was ill due to stress after a traumatic time in my life. I have always wondered if living off easy food and sometimes the odd biscuit was the culprit of my bad tests. There is high cholesterol right through my mums family. My Uncle possibly has FH, he had a heart attack at 51, fit as a fiddle, slim and non smoker due to a cholesterol of 7. Which concerns me as my total is 6.9.

Any advice appreciated as I feel a little lost. Ideally I'd like to stay vegetarian but I am willing to eat some fish but I realise that high carbs are linked to high sugar levels, but LCHF really isn't working for me and with 3 children I can't afford to be off my feet unwell again.

Julie

 

[Totto]

Sorry to hear you felt ill. If you want to try it again, give it at least three days. It's often beneficial to add some extra salt when low carbing. Actually your symptoms might be caused by low salt.

Have you checked out the Autoimmune paleo protocol?

I can see no reason for you to start eating meat, it's perfectly possible to low carb as vegetarian. You could start with cutting out grains along with dairy and see where it takes you.

I'm hypothyroid too and LCHF helped me immensely.

 

[Scimama]

Hi @jingyd36

I follow a vegetarian LCHF diet, there is a vegetarian forum which might be useful. Many forum members report feeling ill when starting a LCHF diet, often referred to as Carb Flu, it can last a few days.

In the early days when I was trying to get to grips with "what on earth am I going to eat!" I found Rose Elliots Low carb vegetarian book really helpful, it gave me lots of ideas to adapt.
Do you have a meter to test which foods raise your fasting blood glucose levels and which foods don't? If not and if your GP won't supply one, many forum users buy the SD code free as the test strips are the cheapest.

My friend has CFS and found a site with recipes by a fellow CFS veggie, not all the recipes are low carb but my friend says the site is very helpful
http://witchy11.wix.com/eatingforenergy


If you do want to reduce your carbohydrate levels and stick to a veggie diet there are some simple changes you can make

Lower carb options for traditional high carb foods:
mashed potatoes: mashed cauliflower or mashed celeriac work very well, add butter or splash of cream if doing LCHF. I like to add garlic and herbs.
Chips: celeriac works well instead of oven chips, or cut courgette into a fat chip shape and coat in egg and almond flour ‘batter’ and bake into a courgette fritter/chip
Dauphinoise potatoes: Celeriac works really well in place of potatoes, add plenty of cream, butter and garlic for a LCHF version.
Pasta:
pasta quills - use courgettes slices into sort of chunks instead, steam or cook briefly in boiling water – don’t overcook or like pasta it will go mushy, serve with low carb sauce.
Small patty pan squash cut into quarters also work well, cook until just tender.
fettuccini or tagliatelle – can use courgettes cut into thicker strips
spaghetti - spaghetti squash is great when I can find it or can use courgette ( I use a julienne peeler much cheaper than a spiraliser ) but needs to be cooked gently or it will fall apart, I normally add to sauce to be warmed up
cannelloni pasta tubes - I use aubergine slices rolled around the filling or leeks carefully sliced to open them into a sheet and then rolled around the filling .
lasagne sheets - aubergine or courgette sliced lengthways or leeks folded all work well, don’t need precooking.

Bread - use nut flours instead of wheat flour, lots of recipes on forums such as oopsie bread or almond flour breads, I add a spoonful of ground flaxseeds to add fibre to the ‘bread’

Wraps – large lettuce leaves make great sandwich filling or burger holders

Crisps - melted cheese blobs is yummy

Nachos – use thick strips of raw pepper to serve guacamole or chilli beef etc

Gratin/breadcrumb topping - Almond or coconut flour instead of bread works great, add savoury seasoning such as herbs or garlic for gratin toppings etc as the nut flours can be a little sweet.

Crumble topping – use ground almonds instead of wheat flour for sweet crumble topping, fruits don’t need any extra sweeteners or sugar, add cinnamon and mixed spice for added sweet taste without needing sugar, serve with double cream for extra sweet taste.


Keep posting questions and we will do our best to offer help and support.

 

[jingyd36]

Thank you so much.

I did lchf for 5 days and felt so ill.

Is it possible to just reduce carbs without going too low? Can that benefit a hba1c result and lower it? My carbs were about 100g a day this week, fat around 80 and protein 90 or above. Very different to my usual diet. I eat well but carbs probably around 200g. I eat complex carbs only no white carbs.

Thank you for your advice.

Sorry to hear you felt ill. If you want to try it again, give it at least three days. It's often beneficial to add some extra salt when low carbing. Actually your symptoms might be caused by low salt.

Have you checked out the Autoimmune paleo protocol?

I can see no reason for you to start eating meat, it's perfectly possible to low carb as vegetarian. You could start with cutting out grains along with dairy and see where it takes you.

I'm hypothyroid too and LCHF helped me immensely.

 

[jingyd36]

Brilliant advice, thank you.

This week I did lchf all week. Carbs halved to 100g. My fatigue hit around 80, down from about 40. Protein high battery 90 plus. I felt so ill by Thursday. I've gone back to more carbs to see if I feel better but I know I need to reduce them. If I reduce to 15mg carbs maybe to start with that might help.

I'm also concerned eating high fat due to my high cholesterol.

I shall check out thevery links thank you so much

Hi @jingyd36

I follow a vegetarian LCHF diet, there is a vegetarian forum which might be useful. Many forum members report feeling ill when starting a LCHF diet, often referred to as Carb Flu, it can last a few days.

In the early days when I was trying to get to grips with "what on earth am I going to eat!" I found Rose Elliots Low carb vegetarian book really helpful, it gave me lots of ideas to adapt.
Do you have a meter to test which foods raise your fasting blood glucose levels and which foods don't? If not and if your GP won't supply one, many forum users buy the SD code free as the test strips are the cheapest.

My friend has CFS and found a site with recipes by a fellow CFS veggie, not all the recipes are low carb but my friend says the site is very helpful
http://witchy11.wix.com/eatingforenergy


If you do want to reduce your carbohydrate levels and stick to a veggie diet there are some simple changes you can make

Lower carb options for traditional high carb foods:
mashed potatoes: mashed cauliflower or mashed celeriac work very well, add butter or splash of cream if doing LCHF. I like to add garlic and herbs.
Chips: celeriac works well instead of oven chips, or cut courgette into a fat chip shape and coat in egg and almond flour ‘batter’ and bake into a courgette fritter/chip
Dauphinoise potatoes: Celeriac works really well in place of potatoes, add plenty of cream, butter and garlic for a LCHF version.
Pasta:
pasta quills - use courgettes slices into sort of chunks instead, steam or cook briefly in boiling water – don’t overcook or like pasta it will go mushy, serve with low carb sauce.
Small patty pan squash cut into quarters also work well, cook until just tender.
fettuccini or tagliatelle – can use courgettes cut into thicker strips
spaghetti - spaghetti squash is great when I can find it or can use courgette ( I use a julienne peeler much cheaper than a spiraliser ) but needs to be cooked gently or it will fall apart, I normally add to sauce to be warmed up
cannelloni pasta tubes - I use aubergine slices rolled around the filling or leeks carefully sliced to open them into a sheet and then rolled around the filling .
lasagne sheets - aubergine or courgette sliced lengthways or leeks folded all work well, don’t need precooking.

Bread - use nut flours instead of wheat flour, lots of recipes on forums such as oopsie bread or almond flour breads, I add a spoonful of ground flaxseeds to add fibre to the ‘bread’

Wraps – large lettuce leaves make great sandwich filling or burger holders

Crisps - melted cheese blobs is yummy

Nachos – use thick strips of raw pepper to serve guacamole or chilli beef etc

Gratin/breadcrumb topping - Almond or coconut flour instead of bread works great, add savoury seasoning such as herbs or garlic for gratin toppings etc as the nut flours can be a little sweet.

Crumble topping – use ground almonds instead of wheat flour for sweet crumble topping, fruits don’t need any extra sweeteners or sugar, add cinnamon and mixed spice for added sweet taste without needing sugar, serve with double cream for extra sweet taste.


Keep posting questions and we will do our best to offer help and support.

 

[Scimama]

@jingyd36

Brilliant advice, thank you.

This week I did lchf all week. Carbs halved to 100g. My fatigue hit around 80, down from about 40. Protein high battery 90 plus. I felt so ill by Thursday. I've gone back to more carbs to see if I feel better but I know I need to reduce them. If I reduce to 15mg carbs maybe to start with that might help.

I'm also concerned eating high fat due to my high cholesterol.

I shall check out thevery links thank you so much

Personally I think 15mg of carbs a day would be impossible as a vegetarian as even low carb veg contains some. Have a look at
http://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-60-seconds-new-guide

which has some great info on how low is low carb, also has some info on cholesterol

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Hi @jingyd36 I manage my T2 diabetes as a vegetarian and have never felt better. You don't need fish for good control.

As suggested, get a meter for reassurance plus to test how foods affect you. I don't worry about going too low carb personally as plant protein is higher carb than animal protein. From what I have read here, there is no such thing as "too low carb" anyway as it is not an essential macronutrient.

 

[jingyd36]

Thank you.
I don't have a meter as my gp said my hba1c was fine at 40. Even though I was worried he wasn't. I have anxiety so I think blood testing myself would just become a habit and something to worry about lol. All of this has made me have health anxiety for sure.

My gp just wants to test me every 12 months but I'm already worried is it higher than 40 now 3 months on.

I have oats at breakfast, I'd have brown rice pasta or sweet potato as carbs with meals. I try to have 1 meal a day with just veggies.

Do you eat dairy?

Hi @jingyd36 I manage my T2 diabetes as a vegetarian and have never felt better. You don't need fish for good control.

As suggested, get a meter for reassurance plus to test how foods affect you. I don't worry about going too low carb personally as plant protein is higher carb than animal protein. From what I have read here, there is no such thing as "too low carb" anyway as it is not an essential macronutrient.

 

[jingyd36]

I was eating about 200g before I have got down to 100g eating lchf this week but I'm sure it made me ill.

Sorry I didn't mean 15g, silly phone. I meant 150.

How low are your carbs and do you eat high fat?

Thanks for the link.

@jingyd36


Personally I think 15mg of carbs a day would be impossible as a vegetarian as even low carb veg contains some. Have a look at
http://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb-60-seconds-new-guide

which has some great info on how low is low carb, also has some info on cholesterol

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Thank you.
I don't have a meter as my gp said my hba1c was fine at 40. Even though I was worried he wasn't. I have anxiety so I think blood testing myself would just become a habit and something to worry about lol. All of this has made me have health anxiety for sure.

My gp just wants to test me every 12 months but I'm already worried is it higher than 40 now 3 months on.

I have oats at breakfast, I'd have brown rice pasta or sweet potato as carbs with meals. I try to have 1 meal a day with just veggies.

Do you eat dairy?

Health anxiety is a tricky one. You have two choices

1 - don't test and worry about the unknown
2 - do test and have a clearer picture to make better choices, but risk worrying about the results

Only you know your own head so can make that choice x

I haven't eaten dairy for a month or so - for family reasons not to do with diabetes, but I am seeing lower numbers now that I am not a cheese monster. I don't think it matters much what colour the carb is, it's still a carb. Rice, pasta etc. There are more nutritious alternatives as @Scimama listed (brilliantly) above.

 

[jingyd36]

Thank you

I agree about carbs.

If I cut down 1 meal a day no carbs other than from vegetables. Try to keep snacks low carb and eat mainly my carbs from oats at lunch and a carb with dinner is that enough,? I find it hard to go full blown low carb.

Yes for now I will avoid testing my own sugars as it'll become a habit I'm sure.

Health anxiety is a tricky one. You have two choices

1 - don't test and worry about the unknown
2 - do test and have a clearer picture to make better choices, but risk worrying about the results

Only you know your own head so can make that choice x

I haven't eaten dairy for a month or so - for family reasons not to do with diabetes, but I am seeing lower numbers now that I am not a cheese monster. I don't think it matters much what colour the carb is, it's still a carb. Rice, pasta etc. There are more nutritious alternatives as @Scimama listed (brilliantly) above.

 

[Scimama]

How low are your carbs and do you eat high fat?

.

I do eat fats, it took me a LONG time to get my head around that and once I did increase my fat intake I was no longer hungry all the time and I had much better blood glucose levels.

Each of us is an individual so my carbohydrate tolerance would likely be different to yours, some forum users can only eat tiny amounts of carbs to maintain low(er) blood glucose levels others can eat lots more.
In my opinion the only way to know your own personal carb level is to gets the effect of each food. I understand why some forum users do not want to do this, if you aren't testing I would suggest lowering your carb content by swapping potatoes for mashed cauliflower, chips for celeriac etc

There are some veggie meals that are tasty and low carb such as omelettes (assuming you eat eggs) and stir fry veggies.

There is so much info to process in the early days that it is daunting, keep asking as many questions as you need

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Thank you

I agree about carbs.

If I cut down 1 meal a day no carbs other than from vegetables. Try to keep snacks low carb and eat mainly my carbs from oats at lunch and a carb with dinner is that enough,? I find it hard to go full blown low carb.

Yes for now I will avoid testing my own sugars as it'll become a habit I'm sure.

"Is that enough?" The only one that can answer that is a blood glucose meter. You will never go super-low carb anyway if you are getting some of your protein from plants. Do you like beans and lentils? They have carbs but bring more nutrition to the table than rice and spuds.

You may have experienced "carb flu" recently when you reduced your carbs. This is only temporary and not dangerous. It is just your body adapting.

 

[jingyd36]

Brilliant. Thank you.

I really want to reduce my carbs.I certainly did feel fuller eating high fat low carb this week.

I just feel very concerned with my high cholesterol is it safe to eat fatsome. I worry alot. I may have FH which is anot inherited cholesterol problem.so I fear eating fats.

I think I could cope lower carb but not too low but will reducing one meal a day of carbs be enough to help my hba1c and do I still increase fats? I was eating around 200g carbs I dropped to 100g this week and increased protein and fat. I felt awful. Maybe I could do this more gradual.

I do eat fats, it took me a LONG time to get my head around that and once I did increase my fat intake I was no longer hungry all the time and I had much better blood glucose levels.

Each of us is an individual so my carbohydrate tolerance would likely be different to yours, some forum users can only eat tiny amounts of carbs to maintain low(er) blood glucose levels others can eat lots more.
In my opinion the only way to know your own personal carb level is to gets the effect of each food. I understand why some forum users do not want to do this, if you aren't testing I would suggest lowering your carb content by swapping potatoes for mashed cauliflower, chips for celeriac etc

There are some veggie meals that are tasty and low carb such as omelettes (assuming you eat eggs) and stir fry veggies.

There is so much info to process in the early days that it is daunting, keep asking as many questions as you need

 

[jingyd36]

Thank you.

I certainly felt like I had a virus I felt awful.

Yes I love beans. I make chickpeas roasted or my own hummus and I make chilli with kidney beans but I've been afraid to eat them incase they're too carb rich.

"Is that enough?" The only one that can answer that is a blood glucose meter. You will never go super-low carb anyway if you are getting some of your protein from plants. Do you like beans and lentils? They have carbs but bring more nutrition to the table than rice and spuds.

You may have experienced "carb flu" recently when you reduced your carbs. This is only temporary and not dangerous. It is just your body adapting.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

@jingyd36 You don't get dietary cholesterol from eating plants. Your body makes its own cholesterol, but this is not a bad thing as we need it to stay healthy. You couldn't pay me enough to take statins as I want a bit of cholesterol in me.

If you are spending your carb "allowance" on anything, have the pulses instead of rice and pasta. Yes, they have carbs, but this way you will be getting protein and fibre.

 

[jingyd36]

@jingyd36 You don't get dietary cholesterol from eating plants. Your body makes its own cholesterol, but this is not a bad thing as we need it to stay healthy. You couldn't pay me enough to take statins as I want a bit of cholesterol in me.

If you are spending your carb "allowance" on anything, have the pulses instead of rice and pasta. Yes, they have carbs, but this way you will be getting protein and fibre.

Great thank you so a veggie diet night not be as high carb as I thought.

I shall do some more doest research as I'd like to stay veggie. The only carbs I was eating that weren't from veg were glrej free bread and brown rice pasta. I've cut out bread altogether now. I will limit the brown rice pasta to once or twice a week. Would I still need to eat high fat? Is dairy ok? I cut dairy out pretty much and felt fine now I've introduced it again in full fat versions which does concern me.

Thank you for your help.
Julie

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Great thank you so a veggie diet night not be as high carb as I thought.

I shall do some more doest research as I'd like to stay veggie. The only carbs I was eating that weren't from veg were glrej free bread and brown rice pasta. I've cut out bread altogether now. I will limit the brown rice pasta to once or twice a week. Would I still need to eat high fat? Is dairy ok? I cut dairy out pretty much and felt fine now I've introduced it again in full fat versions which does concern me.

Thank you for your help.
Julie

Fat stops you feeling hungry and makes up for any shortfall in calories from dropping the carbs. Dairy is fine. Try not to overthink it. When I started low carbing I simply dropped the big hitters - rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, pastry, cereals, sugar - these are just cheap beige fillers anyway and are not so nutritious. Scroll back to Scimama's post above for vegetable based alternatives. These have more fibre and vitamins and are lower carb. Once you get your head around it, it is so simple and delicious. Good luck.

 

[jingyd36]

Thank you.

Very helpful. It's only high fat that concerns me due to high cholesterol.

Right to try and do this diet without feeling ill again is the challenge.

Fat stops you feeling hungry and makes up for any shortfall in calories from dropping the carbs. Dairy is fine. Try not to overthink it. When I started low carbing I simply dropped the big hitters - rice, pasta, bread, potatoes, pastry, cereals, sugar - these are just cheap beige fillers anyway and are not so nutritious. Scroll back to Scimama's post above for vegetable based alternatives. These have more fibre and vitamins and are lower carb. Once you get your head around it, it is so simple and delicious. Good luck.

 

[Avocado Sevenfold]

Thank you.

Very helpful. It's only high fat that concerns me due to high cholesterol.

Right to try and do this diet without feeling ill again is the challenge.

Don't think of it as high fat then. Just think of it as full fat. Most low fat versions of food are higher carb. The only exception I came across was haloumi - perhaps because the low fat version is padded out with water and therefore lower carb. You don't have to eat fat for the sake if it, just enough to stop you feeling hungry or fading away. If you are concerned, you can get cholesterol-free fats from nuts, seeds and avocados.